Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight

From	Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight
Message-ID	<20221014144746.00000b28@reddwarf.jmc.corp> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <ti8mir$1p209$1@dont-email.me> <ti9bar$1qfh$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ti9ulc$1sd84$1@dont-email.me> <20221013223034.00002f0b@reddwarf.jmc.corp> <tibo3h$24fcq$1@dont-email.me>
Organization	Jupiter Mining Corporation
Date	2022-10-14 14:47 +0100

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On Fri, 14 Oct 2022 15:27:13 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> On 13/10/2022 23:30, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 23:06:51 +0200
> > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 13/10/2022 17:36, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:  
> >>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2022 11:42:50 +0200
> >>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:  
> >>>> It is not common to program DSP's like the TMS320 using C++ -
> >>>> usually C is the language of choice.  But maybe TI's C++
> >>>> compilers have improved since I last looked (which was a long
> >>>> time ago). It's generally not hard to make a common header that
> >>>> is suitable for C and C++, for flexibility.  
> >>>
> >>> IIRC some of the TI chips use 16 bit addressing so 32 bit
> >>> addressing requires a lot of faffing around with paging and
> >>> offsets which makes using pointers very expensive and that in
> >>> turn makes C++ features such as virtual functions slow and even
> >>> assuming the STL would even fit in memory it would run like a
> >>> half dead dog. 
> >>
> >> Most of these chips don't have more than 64 KB memory (flash and
> >> ram) to address, making that a moot point.  But you do get the fun
> >> of multiple address spaces in many DSPs.
> >>
> >> There are other TI chips that /do/ have 16-bit pointers and on some
> >> devices have more than 64 KB memory.  Some of the MSP430 devices
> >> are like that.  Some of them have "solved" this by having 20-bit
> >> registers, which adds to their interest.  (The pure 16-bit MSP430
> >> are very C-friendly, with an architecture similar to the original
> >> C DEC targets.)
> >>
> >> Yes, paging of any kind is a pain for some kinds of coding that you
> >> take for granted on "big" processors.  But for the kinds of systems
> >> these devices target, you almost never want any kind of dynamic
> >> memory anyway
> >> - thus you have no problems with the C++ standard library
> >> containers because you'd never use such things (other than
> >> std::array).  
> > 
> > Why just std::array? You could use any container with a suitable
> > allocator.
> >   
> 
> Yes, it is always /possible/.  But the complications and effort
> involved is unlikely to be worth the effort, and you'd still end up
> with something taking a massive amount of code space.  (With
> "massive" being relative to the small code memories of such systems.)
> 
> It's not uncommon in my coding to build up a few lists at the startup
> of the system - lists of "run" functions or software timers, etc.
> Modules might register such callbacks or functions when initialised.
> In "big system" C++, you might just use a vector for that - adding
> your timer objects to your vector as needed.  It's simple and easy in
> the code.
> 
> But in a resource-constraint embedded system, where efficiency of
> code space, ram space and run-time is important (though run-time
> efficiency is usually less important for startup code), that's not
> what you would do.  You make your timer class have the required list
> link pointers in the class, have each registering function declare
> their timer object with static lifetime, and your registration
> function links them together.
> 
> There's no doubt that this takes a bit more effort to write than an 
> off-the-shelf std::vector.  But it is vastly simpler than faffing
> around making your own allocator, avoids the use of any kind of
> dynamic memory (using neither the standard heap nor a home-made
> allocation system), and pulls in a tiny fraction of the amount of
> library code.
> 
> std::array<> is free - it's just a nice wrapper around a plain
> C-style array.

List link pointers? Again there is no reason to not use std::list with
a suitable allocator even on such resource constrained hardware and I
disagree that the resultant text size and ram usage would be any worse
than anything you could come up with by hand. 

/Flibble

Thread

CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-12 15:57 -0700
  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-12 16:01 -0700
  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-10-12 17:16 -0700
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-13 11:38 +0200
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-11-16 06:24 -0800
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-17 11:04 +0100
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-11-17 16:40 +0000
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-11-17 23:23 -0500
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-18 08:16 +0100
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-11-18 16:33 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-18 18:54 +0100
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2022-11-18 03:47 -0800
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-11-18 14:52 +0000
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-11-18 16:32 +0000
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-11-18 19:05 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-11-18 18:16 +0000
  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-13 08:02 +0000
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-13 08:08 +0000
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 11:35 +0200
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 02:53 -0700
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 11:57 +0200
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 03:05 -0700
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-17 06:18 +0000
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-10-17 15:29 -0500
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-13 02:06 -0700
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-13 11:42 +0200
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-13 15:36 +0000
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-13 23:06 +0200
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-13 22:30 +0100
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-14 15:27 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-14 14:47 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-14 14:58 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-14 21:01 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 10:28 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-15 13:39 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 12:45 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 15:18 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 16:24 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 15:34 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 16:39 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 15:53 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 16:55 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-15 15:57 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 16:59 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-17 15:27 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-10-17 09:04 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-17 16:13 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2022-10-17 09:44 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-17 17:47 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-10-18 01:10 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-17 16:22 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2022-10-18 05:13 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-18 15:04 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-18 17:40 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2022-10-18 12:14 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-19 15:12 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-10-19 15:35 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-20 16:16 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 20:13 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 20:11 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-15 20:03 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 07:51 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-16 17:03 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 16:34 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-16 18:51 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 18:11 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 19:18 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-16 22:02 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 21:19 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-10-16 21:24 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 14:38 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 14:48 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-16 22:39 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-10-16 23:49 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-17 09:54 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-17 17:31 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-17 19:56 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-17 15:29 +0000
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-17 17:33 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 11:55 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 13:06 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 15:42 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-16 19:10 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-10-16 21:28 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-17 10:09 +0200
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 13:35 -0700
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-10-16 13:36 -0700
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-11-02 17:46 -0700
    Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2022-10-13 11:10 +0200
      Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-13 10:49 +0000
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-13 12:05 +0000
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-13 06:34 -0700
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-10-13 15:24 +0100
        Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-13 15:59 +0200
          Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2022-10-14 05:54 +0000
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-10-14 09:16 +0300
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-11-16 05:41 -0800
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-11-16 10:38 -0800
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-05 11:42 -0800
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-12-06 01:03 -0800
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-28 20:49 -0800
            Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Frederick Virchanza Gotham <cauldwell.thomas@gmail.com> - 2022-10-14 00:17 -0700
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-10-14 15:33 +0200
              Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-10-16 21:37 +0100
                Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-10-17 15:24 -0500
  Re: CHAR_BIT is not eight Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-15 11:34 +0200

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