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| From | Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem |
| Message-ID | <20221009181035.00001461@reddwarf.jmc.corp> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <thuqh5$vne$1@gioia.aioe.org> <20221009173938.00007e0e@reddwarf.jmc.corp> <thutsj$h9v6$4@dont-email.me> <20221009174943.00000fa9@reddwarf.jmc.corp> <thuunv$h9v6$5@dont-email.me> |
| Organization | Jupiter Mining Corporation |
| Date | 2022-10-09 18:10 +0100 |
On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 12:00:46 -0500
olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/9/2022 11:49 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 11:46:10 -0500
> > olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/9/2022 11:39 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 10:48:51 -0500
> >>> olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10/9/2022 10:40 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> >>>>> On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 09:32:54 -0500
> >>>>> olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 10/9/2022 6:25 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 10/8/22 11:31 PM, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 10/8/2022 9:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 10/8/22 10:00 PM, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/2022 8:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/22 9:22 PM, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/2022 7:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/8/22 8:18 PM, olcott wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once one accepts the notion of a simulating halt
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> decider that continues to correctly simulate its input
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> until it correctly determines that the this simulated
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> input would never stop running then the conventional
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting problem proofs are refuted.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Except that your decider DOESN'T simulate until it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> CORRECT decides that the ACTUAL input will never halts,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but stops when a DIFFERENT input is shown to not halt.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> *straw man*
> >>>>>>>>>>>> An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set
> >>>>>>>>>>>> up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real
> >>>>>>>>>>>> argument. https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/straw_man
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Strawman deception try again using the exact words that I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> actually said.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Which isn't what I did, so you are just shown to be a
> >>>>>>>>>>> LIAR.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> // P does the opposite of whatever H decides
> >>>>>>>>>> void P(ptr x)
> >>>>>>>>>> {
> >>>>>>>>>> int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
> >>>>>>>>>> if (Halt_Status) // if H(P,P) reports that its
> >>>>>>>>>> input halts HERE: goto HERE; // P loops and never halts
> >>>>>>>>>> return; // else P halts
> >>>>>>>>>> }
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> int main()
> >>>>>>>>>> {
> >>>>>>>>>> Output("Input_Halts = ", H(P, P));
> >>>>>>>>>> }
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You are asserting that the simulation of P by H would
> >>>>>>>>>> eventually stop running on its own without being aborted by
> >>>>>>>>>> H?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> No, THAT is the strawman.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I am asserting that the CORRECT simulation of P would
> >>>>>>>>> eventually reach a final state,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *You changed the words again*
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You are asserting that the simulation
> >>>>>>>> of P by H
> >>>>>>>> of P by H
> >>>>>>>> of P by H
> >>>>>>>> of P by H
> >>>>>>>> of P by H
> >>>>>>>> would eventually stop running on its own without being
> >>>>>>>> aborted by H?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No, that's YOUR strawman.
> >>>>>> If you knew anything about logic you would understand that this
> >>>>>> is a premise: *Once one accepts the notion of a simulating halt
> >>>>>> decider*
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One is not allowed to reject the premise. One is only allowed
> >>>>>> to verify that the conclusion follows from the premise.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> SHD can only refute halting problem proofs if it is a pure
> >>>>> function;
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, it took me three full time months to convert H into a pure
> >>>> function. I merely apply the exact same infinite recursion
> >>>> criteria that is used to compute the halt status of:
> >>>>
> >>>> void Infinite_Recursion(u32 N)
> >>>> {
> >>>> Infinite_Recursion(N);
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>> Yet I apply this criteria immediately before recursive simulation
> >>>> actually occurs. When H recognizes that P is about to call H in
> >>>> recursive simulation H aborts its simulation of P before its
> >>>> first call to H is ever invoked.
> >>>
> >>> If your H is a pure function and H(P,P) returns 0 then H(P,P)
> >>> called from P(P) would also return 0
> >>
> >> <sarcasm>
> >> Sure because everyone knows that a function that is never invoked
> >> must still return a value in the same way we must be able to start
> >> the engine of a car that has no engine.
> >> </sarcasm>
> >
> > H(P,P) called from P(P) is the FIRST invocation of H(P,P) so is
> > invoked, i.e. main() calling P(P) instead of H(P,P).
> >
> > Your H is not a halt decider as it gets the halting decision wrong.
> >
> > /Flibble
> >
>
> Turing computable functions are not allowed to compute the mapping of
> non-inputs or anything that cannot be encoded as a finite string.
> That you fail to understand this is not any rebuttal of what I have
> said.
If H is a pure function and H(P,P) returns 0 then if P(P) is called
from main() P(P) will halt which means H got the halting decision wrong
meaning H is not a halt decider.
/Flibble
Back to comp.theory | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-08 19:18 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-08 19:29 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-08 20:49 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-08 20:22 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-08 21:43 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-10-08 21:00 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-08 22:44 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-08 22:31 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 07:25 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-10-09 09:32 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 16:40 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-10-09 10:48 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 17:25 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 11:40 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 17:43 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 17:39 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 11:46 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 17:49 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 12:00 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 18:10 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-10-09 12:14 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 18:18 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 12:22 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 18:30 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 12:48 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 18:51 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 12:57 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 19:07 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-10-09 13:10 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 19:12 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 13:18 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 19:23 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 13:28 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 19:31 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-10-09 13:40 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 19:44 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 14:03 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2022-10-09 20:06 +0100
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 14:39 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 13:51 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 15:03 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2022-10-10 10:25 +0200
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-10 10:37 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 18:57 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 10:41 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 14:52 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 14:09 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 15:23 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 14:33 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 15:38 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 14:49 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 20:53 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-10-09 14:13 +0300
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 07:26 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-10-09 09:23 +0000
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 15:29 +0200
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-09 14:32 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 15:47 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-10-09 15:17 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-09 16:32 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-10 13:42 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 18:47 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-10 18:25 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 19:45 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel olcott <none-ya@beez-waxes.com> - 2022-10-10 19:06 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 20:16 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-10 21:30 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 23:00 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-10 22:18 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 23:34 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-10 21:24 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 22:44 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-10 21:59 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem, Tarski and Gödel Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 23:14 -0400
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2022-10-09 20:43 +0000
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2022-10-10 12:05 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders refute the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-10-10 19:06 -0400
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