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Groups > comp.lang.c > #167055

Re: New features added into C23 standard

From Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: New features added into C23 standard
Date 2022-08-18 07:03 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20220817235255.957@kylheku.com> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <GStFK.601320$J0r9.21383@fx11.iad> <86y1vou2yp.fsf@linuxsc.com> <IsfLK.155213$El2.102395@fx45.iad> <87v8qqb64e.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <1diLK.269146$vZ1.129944@fx04.iad>

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On 2022-08-18, Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> wrote:
> On 8/17/22 11:08 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes:
>>> On 8/16/22 2:17 AM, Tim Rentsch wrote:
>>>> Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes:
>> [...]
>>>>> And for machine specific case like this, the fact that derefencing a
>>>>> NULL pointer is "just" Undefined Behavior, that can be Implementaton
>>>>> Defined to do what is wanted, as opposed to some how PROHIBITED.
>>>> Dereferencing a null pointer is unequivocally undefined behavior.
>>>> It is never implementation-defined behavior.  Even if an
>>>> implementation defines and documents an extension that specifies
>>>> a behavior for dereferencing a null pointer, as the C standard
>>>> defines the terms such cases fall under the heading of undefined
>>>> behavior, and not implementation-defined behavior.
>>>
>>> Note, I didn't say that it was "Implementation Defined Behavior", but
>>> Undefined Behavior that the implementation can define.
>> 
>> You use the phrase "Implementation Defined", which is close enough to
>> the standard-defined term "implementation-defined behavior" (the
>> standard also defines "implementation-defined value") that it's almost
>> guaranteed to cause confusion.
>> 
>> I presume you know what "implementation-defined behavior" means, but the
>> above could easily have been written by someone who incorrectly thinks
>> it means "behavior that is defined by the implementation".
>> 
>>> The implementation can define ANYTHING it wants (as an extension), as
>>> long as it doesn't violate a requirement of the Standard, and the
>>> Standard explicitly provides no requirement on things it declares to
>>> be Undefined Behavior, so an Implementation is free to define that
>>> behavior as anything.
>> 
>> Agreed.
>> 
>
> Yes, unfortunately, the language of the Standard doesn't give a good 
> term for things the Implementation chooses to define but wasn't required 
> to define.

Isn't the above-discussed word "extension" it?

  "A conforming implementation may have extensions (including additional
  library functions), provided they do not alter the behavior of any
  strictly conforming program".

and all that.

A predictable, catchable SIGSEGV signal being generated upon a null
pointer dereference (or at least one not sufficiently displaced away
from null), is an example of an extension. Does it not suffice?

-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal

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New features added into C23 standard Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2022-07-22 12:32 -0700
  Re: New features added into C23 standard Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-07-22 23:15 +0100
  Re: New features added into C23 standard Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-07-23 01:31 -0700
    Re: New features added into C23 standard gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-07-23 10:10 +0000
  Re: New features added into C23 standard Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2022-07-25 13:49 -0700
    Re: New features added into C23 standard Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2022-07-25 13:57 -0700
      Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-25 14:50 -0700
        Re: New features added into C23 standard Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2022-07-25 15:51 -0700
          Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-25 18:04 -0700
            Re: New features added into C23 standard Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2022-07-25 19:23 -0700
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Opus <ifonly@youknew.org> - 2022-07-26 05:13 +0200
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-25 23:36 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2022-07-25 21:52 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-26 11:44 -0700
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-26 11:39 -0700
          Re: New features added into C23 standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-07-30 14:42 +0200
            Re: New features added into C23 standard scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-07-30 15:18 +0000
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-07-30 09:13 -0700
            Re: New features added into C23 standard Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-07-30 17:31 +0100
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-30 16:46 -0700
            Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-30 14:36 -0700
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-30 18:15 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-07-30 23:28 +0000
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-31 16:48 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-07-31 22:42 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-31 23:25 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-08-01 00:10 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-08-01 09:55 +0200
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-08-01 20:17 +0100
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-07-30 23:21 +0000
        Re: New features added into C23 standard Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-07-25 22:59 -0700
          Re: New features added into C23 standard Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-07-26 00:48 -0700
            Re: New features added into C23 standard Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-07-26 02:08 -0700
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-26 06:59 -0400
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-07-26 04:02 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-07-29 21:18 +0100
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-29 16:55 -0700
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-26 11:51 -0700
            Re: New features added into C23 standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-07-31 11:12 +0200
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-31 07:40 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-07-31 17:40 +0100
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-31 12:56 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-07-31 19:28 +0100
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-31 14:52 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-07-31 21:35 +0100
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-08-15 23:24 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-31 16:57 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-31 16:55 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-31 20:09 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-08-15 22:52 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-08-16 09:21 +0200
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2022-08-16 09:32 +0200
                Re: New features added into C23 standard David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-08-16 11:06 +0200
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-08-15 23:17 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-08-17 20:11 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-08-17 20:08 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-08-17 23:19 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-08-18 07:03 +0000
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-08-23 09:43 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-08-23 11:02 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-08-23 13:40 -0700
          Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-26 07:04 -0400
            Re: New features added into C23 standard Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-07-26 05:24 -0700
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-26 22:30 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-07-29 00:02 +0100
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-28 21:20 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard William Ahern <william@25thandClement.com> - 2022-07-28 19:36 -0700
                Re: New features added into C23 standard scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-07-29 16:39 +0000
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-29 18:55 -0400
                Re: New features added into C23 standard Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-07-29 15:17 +0100
          Re: New features added into C23 standard scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-07-26 13:27 +0000
          Re: New features added into C23 standard Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-07-26 11:47 -0700
            Re: New features added into C23 standard Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-07-26 20:27 +0000
              Re: New features added into C23 standard Philipp Klaus Krause <pkk@spth.de> - 2022-08-16 08:42 +0200
  Re: New features added into C23 standard Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-07-26 05:37 +0200
    Re: New features added into C23 standard Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-07-28 16:47 -0500
      Re: New features added into C23 standard Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-07-29 07:14 +0200
        Re: New features added into C23 standard Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-07-29 21:21 +0100
  Re: New features added into C23 standard Grant Mulholland <grantlmul@gmail.com> - 2022-08-13 22:21 -0700
    Re: New features added into C23 standard Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-08-15 21:21 -0500
      Re: New features added into C23 standard Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-08-16 08:39 +0200
    Re: New features added into C23 standard Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-08-15 22:54 -0700
    Re: New features added into C23 standard Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2022-08-18 12:03 -0700
      Re: New features added into C23 standard "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-08-18 12:56 -0700
      Re: New features added into C23 standard William Ahern <william@25thandClement.com> - 2022-08-18 16:07 -0700
        Re: New features added into C23 standard Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2022-08-18 18:47 -0700
          Re: New features added into C23 standard Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2022-08-18 20:23 -0700

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