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Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 13:00:21 -0500
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:

> On 7/4/2022 12:54 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> > On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 12:51:24 -0500
> > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >   
> >> On 7/4/2022 12:39 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 12:33:44 -0500
> >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>      
> >>>> On 7/4/2022 12:25 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 11:54:55 -0500
> >>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>         
> >>>>>> On 7/4/2022 10:58 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:  
> >>>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 09:45:45 -0500
> >>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>            
> >>>>>>>> No one can provide any "rebuttal" of my paper on any other
> >>>>>>>> basis than
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> (1) disagreeing with the semantics of the x86 language
> >>>>>>>> *x86 Instruction Set Reference* https://c9x.me/x86/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *or disagreeing with this necessarily true principle*
> >>>>>>>> (2) A halt decider must compute the mapping from its inputs
> >>>>>>>> to an accept or reject state on the basis of the actual
> >>>>>>>> behavior that is actually specified by these inputs.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This much more concise version of my paper focuses on the
> >>>>>>>> actual execution of three fully operational examples.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> H0 correctly determines that Infinite_Loop() never halts
> >>>>>>>> H correctly determines that Infinite_Recursion() never halts
> >>>>>>>> H(P,P) correctly determines that its input never halts  
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As I have shown with my signaling halting decider there is no
> >>>>>>> need for a call to a simulation-based halting decider, H, from
> >>>>>>> the input program to be recursive; this is compatible with
> >>>>>>> [Strachey 1965] and associated proofs which are not recursive
> >>>>>>> in nature. Your H is invalid as it aborts the simulation to
> >>>>>>> prevent infinite recursion rather than returning an answer to
> >>>>>>> its caller which results in it giving the wrong answer for a
> >>>>>>> non-pathological input that calls H.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>>>            
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> YOU KEEP DISAGREEING WITH VERIFIED FACTS:
> >>>>>>     From a purely software engineering perspective (anchored in
> >>>>>> the semantics of the x86 language) it is proven that H(P,P)
> >>>>>> correctly predicts that its correct and complete x86 emulation
> >>>>>> of its input would never reach the "ret" instruction (final
> >>>>>> state) of this input.  
> >>>>>     
> >>>>> No it doesn't. What you have doesn't work.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /Flibble
> >>>>>         
> >>>>
> >>>> Try and prove how foolish you are by attempting to refute the
> >>>> above statement on the basis is this paper:
> >>>>
> >>>> *Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software
> >>>> engineering*
> >>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361701808_Halting_problem_proofs_refuted_on_the_basis_of_software_engineering
> >>>>     
> >>>    
> >>> I don't have to consider your "paper"; the evidence is here for
> >>> all to see:
> >>>
> >>> void Px(u32 x)
> >>> {
> >>>      H(x, x);
> >>>      return;
> >>> }
> >>>
> >>> int main()
> >>> {
> >>>      Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)Px, (u32)Px));
> >>> }
> >>>
> >>> ...[000013e8][00102357][00000000] 83c408          add esp,+08
> >>> ...[000013eb][00102353][00000000] 50              push eax
> >>> ...[000013ec][0010234f][00000427] 6827040000      push 00000427
> >>> ---[000013f1][0010234f][00000427] e880f0ffff      call 00000476
> >>> Input_Halts = 0
> >>> ...[000013f6][00102357][00000000] 83c408          add esp,+08
> >>> ...[000013f9][00102357][00000000] 33c0            xor eax,eax
> >>> ...[000013fb][0010235b][00100000] 5d              pop ebp
> >>> ...[000013fc][0010235f][00000004] c3              ret
> >>> Number of Instructions Executed(16120)
> >>>
> >>> As can be seen above Olcott's H decides that Px does not halt but
> >>> it is obvious that Px should always halt if H is a valid halt
> >>> decider that always returns a decision to its caller (Px).
> >>> Olcott's H does not return a decision to its caller (Px) and is
> >>> thus invalid.  
> >>
> >> Your trace always deceitfully leaves out key details.  
> > 
> > My trace only includes the pertinent details: namely that it gets
> > the halting decision wrong:
> >   
> >>> Input_Halts = 0  
> > 
> > /Flibble
> >   
> 
> You continue under the false assumption that a function called in 
> infinite recursion must return to its caller. That you continue in
> the false assumption after multiple corrections is a little nuts.
 
There is no infinite recursion in [Strachey 1965] or associated proofs
and I have shown that there need not be any recursion when using a
simulation-based halting decider; if you have to abort your simulation
to avoid infinite recursion then that just goes to show that your
solution is wrong.

/Flibble

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Thread

Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 09:45 -0500
  Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Horatio Cornholer <midshipman@gmail.net> - 2022-07-04 08:31 -0700
  Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-04 16:58 +0100
    Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 11:54 -0500
      Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-04 18:25 +0100
        Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 12:33 -0500
          Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-04 18:39 +0100
            Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 12:51 -0500
              Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-04 18:54 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 13:00 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-04 19:38 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2022-07-04 14:09 -0500
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2022-07-04 20:13 +0100
                Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-04 15:40 -0400
  Re: Halting problem proofs refuted on the basis of software engineering V2 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-07-04 15:02 -0400

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