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Groups > comp.lang.c > #164132

Re: Can this program be improved?

From Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Can this program be improved?
Date 2021-12-30 21:04 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20211230124827.649@kylheku.com> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <87sfub2g2t.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <sqiprq$1kk$1@dont-email.me> <Cy6zJ.242630$IW4.143221@fx48.iad> <20211229162959.990@kylheku.com> <sqk9tn$q5h$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2021-12-30, Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 30/12/2021 00:34, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2021-12-29, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>> On 29/12/2021 22:37, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> 3) Double is perfectly suitable for representing monetary amounts,
>>>>>> especially in a toy program or for personal use. (I've used it for
>>>>>> accounts within a small business.)
>>>>>
>>>>> In a toy program, sure -- and I'd say *only* in a toy program.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using floating-point for money risks, at best, rare off-by-one errors,
>>>>> such as a computation yielding a result one cent off from the correct
>>>>> value.  I believe that would be considered unacceptable in any
>>>>> real-world financial application.
>>>>
>>>> Real-world doesn't need to mean dealing with trillions of dollars to the
>>>> exact cent.
>>>
>>> Real-world still uses COBOL for these type of applications.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most businesses work with amounts far smaller. Then I believe the
>>>> precision of float64 is enough to emulate the needed rounding methods.
>>>
>>> Why bother with the error-prone "needed rounding methods".  Use uint64_t
>>> and denominate in mills.
>> 
>> This common intution is incorrect. Financial systems sometimews need to
>> calculate fractional amounts, like a 15.03% tax or whatever.
>> 
>> And in those situations, you may be required to implement the required
>> rounding rules: what to do when some fractional result lands halfway
>> between two pennies: which one does it go to.
>> 
>> You cannot get away from rounding issues just because you used an
>> integer representation for mills or penies.
>
> The problem isn't the recommended rounding method, it's repeatability.
>
> With floating point, an intermediate result might end in .4999999993 or 
> in .5000000007. If the rule is that up to exactly 0.5 rounds down, and 
> anything beyond rounds up, then it can go either way.

This is fairly straightforward, actually. Suppose we are workign with
dollars and cents, and have a $0.0049999993 or $0.005000000007 result.

We do not just look at the 4 or 5 digit we look at (at least) one more
digit, and round that off first:

  $0.0049...  ->  $0.0050 -> $0.005

  $0.0050...  ->  $0.0050 -> $0.005

Now that we have our mill (tenth of a cent) denomination rounded off
using conventional arithmetic rounding, we then look at the tenth of a
cent digit and round to the cent.

Here we can use a specific rounding rule like Banker's for instance, if
we are so inclined:

  $0.005 -> $0.00  // digit before 5 is 0, which is even, so down

This could be done with character processing: format the floating point
number to a certain number of fixed digits after the decimal point, just
letting sprintf (or whatever function) doing its built-in rounding.
Then, using the resulting decimal, implement the exact pencil-and-paper
rounding method.

Or it can all be done with just floating-point calculations.

The key point is that both of the original numbers $0.0049999993 and
$0.005000000007 are understood to be floating-point approximations
representing precisely half a cent, and with a little care we can get
the rounding to work accordingly: we can get that half a cent value
first, and then implement the required rounding to the cent.

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Thread

Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-25 01:00 +0000
  Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-24 21:44 -0800
    Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-25 12:56 +0100
    Re: Can this program be improved? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-12-25 11:13 -0800
    Re: Can this program be improved? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-12-25 23:50 +0100
    Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 18:52 +0000
      Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-26 19:22 +0000
        Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 21:30 +0000
          Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-26 22:02 +0000
          Re: Can this program be improved? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-12-26 18:24 -0500
          Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-27 00:47 +0000
    Re: Can this program be improved? Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2021-12-29 17:52 +0100
      Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-29 17:49 +0000
        Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-29 11:33 -0800
          Re: Can this program be improved? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-12-29 22:45 -0500
            Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-30 00:35 -0800
              Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-12-30 10:19 +0100
          Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-01 18:19 +0000
            Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-01 19:33 +0000
        Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-29 14:37 -0800
          Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-29 23:09 +0000
            Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-12-29 23:54 +0000
              Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-29 16:11 -0800
              Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 00:34 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-30 12:49 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 21:04 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-31 02:13 +0000
            Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-29 16:09 -0800
              Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 00:59 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-29 17:48 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 20:47 +0000
              Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-30 01:06 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-12-30 04:48 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-12-30 18:16 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-31 02:20 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-12-31 18:25 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-12-31 18:13 -0500
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-31 23:59 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-12-31 16:20 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-31 16:35 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-01 00:53 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-31 20:22 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-12-31 22:04 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-01 14:59 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-02 17:22 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-02 20:49 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 03:09 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-03 16:22 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 14:42 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 14:52 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-03 22:58 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 04:27 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-04 13:39 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-04 00:18 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 15:24 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 15:43 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2022-01-03 21:19 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-01-04 09:23 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2022-01-04 18:18 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 10:35 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 14:07 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 15:11 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 15:47 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 18:30 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-04 23:46 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-04 18:41 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 10:52 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-04 19:00 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 11:15 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Guillaume <message@bottle.org> - 2022-01-04 21:57 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-04 21:02 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-04 21:38 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-01-04 23:01 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-04 09:31 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 01:30 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-04 14:55 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-04 06:21 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-04 16:49 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-04 15:56 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-04 15:03 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-03 22:54 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-01-03 09:22 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 03:30 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-03 17:22 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 08:48 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-01-03 18:42 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-03 17:59 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 11:09 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? Mateusz Viste <mateusz@xyz.invalid> - 2022-01-03 20:32 +0100
                Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2022-01-03 11:58 -0800
                Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-03 18:13 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2022-01-03 20:05 +0000
                Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-01-01 16:53 +0000
          Re: Can this program be improved? Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2021-12-30 00:29 +0000
  Re: Can this program be improved? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2021-12-25 12:47 +0000
    Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 18:56 +0000
  Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-25 17:38 +0000
    Re: Can this program be improved? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-12-25 10:58 -0800
      Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-25 19:16 +0000
        Re: Can this program be improved? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-12-25 11:25 -0800
      Re: Can this program be improved? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-25 15:01 -0800
        Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-25 23:09 +0000
          Re: Can this program be improved? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-12-25 20:56 -0800
    Re: Can this program be improved? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-12-25 19:30 +0000
      Re: Can this program be improved? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-12-25 15:50 -0800
        Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 19:02 +0000
    Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-25 11:53 -0800
    Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 19:00 +0000
  Re: Can this program be improved? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2021-12-25 11:22 -0800
    Re: Can this program be improved? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2021-12-26 19:01 +0000
  Re: Can this program be improved? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-12-25 13:27 -0800
    Re: Can this program be improved? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2021-12-25 16:06 -0800
  Re: Can this program be improved? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2021-12-29 15:21 +0000

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