Re: if cargo blocks

From	Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: if cargo blocks
Date	2018-12-31 05:21 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20181231052107.7492859a@assi.fritz.box> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <gKTVD.49503$gX2.21792@fx32.am4> <q0919m$9gi$1@dont-email.me> <g8qnarFbi9qU1@mid.individual.net> <20181230061224.2ec7fd6a@assi.fritz.box> <q0akdp$74k$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Am Sun, 30 Dec 2018 15:23:53 +0100
schrieb David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>:

> On 30/12/2018 06:12, Ralf Goertz wrote:
> > Am Sat, 29 Dec 2018 19:04:28 -0700
> > schrieb rbowman <bowman@montana.com>:
> >   
> >> Rather like the grammarian’s damnation of ending a sentence with a
> >> preposition it resulted in some of the most convoluted messes I've
> >> ever seen.  
> > 
> > Although I have been communicating in English for quite a while
> > now, I heard about that damnation only rather recently. Does that
> > mean you are not supposed to say "What are you looking for?" but
> > should say "For what are you looking?" instead?  
> 
> Yes, that is correct.

Hm, grammar girl seems to have a different opinion: https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/ending-a-sentence-with-a-preposition

BTW (to answer Stefan's SCNR), this is exactly the reason why I asked my
question here in a programming newsgroup. Here, there are many
intelligent native speakers whose focus is probably not grammar. Their
gut feeling about their language is quite a valuable input for me to
develop my own gut feeling. Although I must admit that I will never have
as strong a gut feeling for English as I have for my own language.

> > The former /feels/ correct because I hear it
> > very often, I guess more often than the latter. But then I also very
> > often hear "What do you got?" in American TV shows which feels like
> > a horrible abuse of language…
> >   
> 
> It is a matter of philosophical debate whether the kind of
> grammatical abuse found on American TV shows is ignorance, laziness,
> or the evolution of language.
> 
> "To boldly go where no man has gone before" - is it bad grammar, or
> has it changed the language?

It took my quite a while to figure out what could be objectionable in
that sentence. It seems to be the rule not to split an infinitive, a
rule about which I had no idea two days ago. (Apart from "Manner, space,
time makes your English fine" I don't remember being taught any style
rule at school.) Interestingly, for me both ending with a preposition
and splitting an infinitive feel very "English" probably because there
is no way you could use either construct in a German sentence.

Thread

if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 10:42 -0500
  Re: if cargo blocks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-29 17:26 +0100
    Re: if cargo blocks Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-29 16:32 +0000
  Re: if cargo blocks Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-29 16:56 +0000
    Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 12:34 -0500
      Re: if cargo blocks Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-29 23:49 +0000
        Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 18:52 -0500
          Re: if cargo blocks Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-30 00:12 +0000
          Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2018-12-29 19:04 -0700
            Re: if cargo blocks Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2018-12-30 06:12 +0100
              Re: if cargo blocks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-30 15:23 +0100
                Language (Was: if cargo blocks) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-12-30 15:39 +0000
                Re: Language (Was: if cargo blocks) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2018-12-30 11:23 -0700
                Re: if cargo blocks Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2018-12-31 05:21 +0100
                Re: if cargo blocks David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-31 18:09 +0100
                Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2018-12-31 12:22 -0700
                Re: if cargo blocks Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2019-01-01 12:04 +0100
                Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2018-12-31 11:50 -0700
                Re: if cargo blocks Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2019-01-01 11:43 +0100
                Re: if cargo blocks Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2019-01-01 14:27 +0100
                German grammar (Was: if cargo blocks) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-01-01 14:17 +0000
                Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 11:04 -0700
                Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-01-01 10:38 -0800
                Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 10:57 -0700
                DDR Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2019-01-01 21:18 +0100
                Re: DDR rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 16:18 -0700
                Re: if cargo blocks Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-01 16:30 -0800
              Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2018-12-30 11:09 -0700
                Re: if cargo blocks Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2018-12-31 05:43 +0100
                Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2018-12-31 12:06 -0700
              Linguistics. Re: if cargo blocks Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-01 16:27 -0800
                Re: Linguistics. Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 22:30 -0700
                Re: Linguistics. Re: if cargo blocks Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.pssw.com.invalid> - 2019-01-02 04:18 -0700
          Re: if cargo blocks Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-30 02:07 +0000
            Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 21:59 -0500
  Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2018-12-29 13:57 -0700
    Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 16:03 -0500
      Re: if cargo blocks Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-29 21:32 +0000
      Re: if cargo blocks rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2018-12-29 16:06 -0700
        Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 18:15 -0500
          Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 15:32 -0800
            Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 15:34 -0800
              Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 15:38 -0800
              Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 15:40 -0800
                Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 15:45 -0800
            Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 18:36 -0500
              Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 15:42 -0800
                Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 15:45 -0800
                Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 15:54 -0800
                Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 18:58 -0500
                Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 16:01 -0800
    Re: if cargo blocks "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-29 13:36 -0800
  Re: if cargo blocks "I Set My Girlfriend's Pantyhose on Fire" <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 13:16 -0800
    Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-29 16:32 -0500
  Re: if cargo blocks Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-30 13:00 -0800
    Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 16:12 -0500
      Re: if cargo blocks Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-12-30 13:31 -0800
        Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 16:45 -0500
          Re: if cargo blocks Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-30 22:17 +0000
            Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-30 17:22 -0500
              Re: if cargo blocks "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-30 20:25 -0800
  Re: if cargo blocks Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-03 09:50 +1300
    Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 15:54 -0500
      Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-01-02 16:29 -0500
        Re: if cargo blocks mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 00:44 -0800
          Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 08:17 -0500
            Re: if cargo blocks mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 05:40 -0800
              Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 09:15 -0500
            You are so full of shit (Was: if cargo blocks) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-01-03 13:42 +0000
            Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 12:27 -0800
        Re: if cargo blocks Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-04 11:11 +1300
          Re: if cargo blocks "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-03 14:37 -0800
          Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 17:48 -0500
          Re: if cargo blocks fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 14:59 -0800
      Re: if cargo blocks mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 00:44 -0800
        Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 08:19 -0500
          Re: if cargo blocks mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 05:43 -0800
            Re: if cargo blocks "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 05:51 -0800
          Re: if cargo blocks "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-03 13:22 -0800
      Re: if cargo blocks Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-01-04 11:10 +1300

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