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Re: Going Back To The Well Again

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Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
> On 2018-04-05, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>> Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
>>> On 2018-04-04, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Carl Fink <carlf@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-04-03, D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>     The story introduces me to George Berkeley, the California city's
>>>>>> namesake. Wikipedia says that Berkeley's views were a precursor to Mach
>>>>>> and Einstein.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the sense of "chronologically before"? Wow, that's absurd. I have to
>>>>> remember to fix that later.
>>>>
>>>> Here's an excerpt from the preface of "De Motu: Sive; De Motus Principio
>>>> Et Natura, Et De Causa Communicationis Motuum" (Berkeley 1721) [1]
>>>>
>>>>     All change of place in one body must be relative to other
>>>>     bodies, among which the moving body is supposed to change
>>>>     its place-our own bodies which we animate being of course
>>>>     recognised among the number.
>>>
>>> So he drew an analogy between his supernatural beliefs and the relativity of
>>> Galileo (which was the actual predecessor of Mach's and Einstein's)? Doesn't
>>> support your point.
>>
>>     My own ignorance of Latin is profound. So that left me in the
>> unenviable position of using an except from the English preface, words
>> which were probably not written by Berkeley.
>>     Are you fluent enough in Latin to translate the Berkeley? If so,
>> "supernatural beliefs" is a fairly broad brush. Might you possibly
>> translate a tiny bit about the nature of Berkeley's supernatural
>> beliefs?
>>     If you're like me and you have only a rudimentary understanding of
>> Latin, how did you translate Berkeley's Latin into English in order to
>> formulate an opinion on his essay? Although translate.bing.com is one of
>> Microsoft's better efforts, it lacks a Latin translator. Is there an
>> English translation of the Berkeley available?
>
> It doesn't matter. Galileo's relativity was both more relevant to science
> and much earlier.

    BEVERLY (OS)
    ... "Life is very long..." ... TS Eliot. Not the first person
    to say it, certainly not the first person to think it. ...
    But he's given credit for it because he bothered to write it
    down. ... So if you say it, you have to say his name after it.
    "Life is very long:" TS Eliot. [1]

Elsewhere in this thread you mention "Dialogue on Two World Systems"
(Galileo). Are you sure that you don't mean "Dialogue Concerning the
two Chief World Systems?" An English translation of /that/ essay is
available [2]. It says this about relativity:

    For consider: Motion, in so far as It is and acts as motion, to
    that extent exists relatively to things that lack it; and among
    things which all share equally in any motion, it does not act,
    and is as if it did not exist.

    So, Galileo's remains mired in the frame of mind that there's an
absolute space, a stationary, fixed, absolute reference system.
Meanwhile "De Motu" unequivocally states the essence of Einsteinian
relativity:

    we ought not to define the true place of the body as the part
    of absolute space which the body occupies, and true or absolute
    motion as the change of true or absolute place; for all place
    is relative just as all motion is relative.

    That's just for openers. The Berkeley goes on for a few more pages.
Anyone interested in the truth can do their own research. Although life
may be long according to TS Eliot, it's too short for me to get
"ratholed" (in the parlance of GAWollman) transcribing any more
"De Motu" into this thread.

Note.

1. https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-oj5ZlZEvqLa4-QGT/August-Osage-County_djvu.txt
2. https://archive.org/details/GalileiGalileoDialogueConcerningTheTwoChiefWorldSystemsEN155P.

Thank you,

--
Don

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Re: Going Back To The Well Again D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-04-24 17:01 +0000

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