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Re: Stack Operator Symbols

From anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Stack Operator Symbols
Date 2016-10-31 09:02 +0000
Organization Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID <2016Oct31.100240@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References <ypidnaiGB-84P4jFnZ2dnUU7-UPNnZ2d@supernews.com> <nv6a7f$1nrm$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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"HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> writes:
>It's possible to estimate which stack sequence is going to deliver the better
>performance.  Counting instructions is a good start.  The definition quoted
>above comprises 3 instructions, as does the PICK version, so they're going
>to be close (and they are).

If you mean primitives, the PICK version uses 6 primites (3 LITs, 3
PICKs) and will be relatively slow on a pure threaded-code Forth
implementation.

>  Moving things to/from the return stack isn't cheap
>so avoid it unless it's saving a lot of juggling on the data stack.

It's not particularly expensive, either, so I don't see a reason to
give this advice.

>'common sense' strategies for choosing code work for all but the fanciest
>code generators like Peter's where there's a lot going on 'behind your back'.
>I personally would have a problem with a Forth compiler that removed the
>programmer from the equation.

What do you mean by that?

Do you mean that, instead of putting as many stack items and locals
in registers as we can to gain efficiency and relieve programmers from
worrying about how to write 3DUP, we should have compilers that
produce slower code with hard-to-predict performance characteristics,
in order to "leave the programmer in the equation"?

I would like to learn more about Peter Faelth's compiler, and, if
possible, get a copy for benchmarking.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

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Stack Operator Symbols trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-24 20:42 -0700
  Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-25 01:58 -0700
  Re: Stack Operator Symbols november.nihal@gmail.com - 2016-10-25 10:52 -0700
  Re: Stack Operator Symbols Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-10-27 19:13 -0400
    Re: Stack Operator Symbols "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-27 17:08 -1000
      Re: Stack Operator Symbols "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-28 21:53 +1000
        Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-28 20:42 -0700
          Re: Stack Operator Symbols Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2016-10-29 17:15 -0400
            Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-29 17:27 -0700
        Re: Stack Operator Symbols "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-28 20:56 -1000
      Re: Stack Operator Symbols Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-29 00:46 -0700
        Re: Stack Operator Symbols Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-10-29 04:30 -0500
          Re: Stack Operator Symbols rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-29 16:58 -0400
          Re: Stack Operator Symbols Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-29 14:21 -0700
            Re: Stack Operator Symbols Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-10-30 04:03 -0500
              Re: Stack Operator Symbols Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-30 18:06 -0700
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 01:43 +0000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-30 19:23 -0700
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-10-31 05:13 -0500
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-31 12:42 +0100
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-31 12:12 +0000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-31 14:49 +0000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols mhx@iae.nl - 2016-10-31 13:17 -0700
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-03 16:38 +0000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 14:33 +0000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-31 08:35 +0000
            Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-30 11:01 +0000
              Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-30 10:01 -0700
            Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-11-03 14:46 -0700
              Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-04 23:04 +0000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-05 03:16 -0400
        Re: Stack Operator Symbols peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2016-10-29 09:13 -0700
          Re: Stack Operator Symbols "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-30 08:47 +1100
            Re: Stack Operator Symbols trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-29 14:57 -0700
              Re: Stack Operator Symbols "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-30 09:20 +1100
        Re: Stack Operator Symbols Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-10-29 18:46 -0400
          Re: Stack Operator Symbols Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-29 19:45 -0700
            Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-29 20:29 -0700
              Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-29 20:47 -0700
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-29 23:15 -0500
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-29 21:37 -1000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-30 10:07 -0700
            Re: Stack Operator Symbols "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-29 21:35 -1000
              Re: Stack Operator Symbols "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-10-31 13:11 +1100
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-30 20:02 -0700
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-10-30 22:08 -1000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-10-31 09:02 +0000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-03 20:49 +1100
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-03 15:33 +0000
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2016-11-03 16:55 -0400
                Re: Stack Operator Symbols anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-11-03 22:21 +0000
  Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-27 20:31 -0700
    Re: Stack Operator Symbols november.nihal@gmail.com - 2016-10-28 09:52 -0700
      Re: Stack Operator Symbols hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-10-28 20:32 -0700
  Re: Stack Operator Symbols Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-10-30 04:49 -0700
    Re: Stack Operator Symbols Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-10-30 14:49 +0100
      Re: Stack Operator Symbols Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2016-10-31 13:31 +0100
        Re: Stack Operator Symbols Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-10-31 14:12 +0100
          Re: Stack Operator Symbols Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2016-10-31 15:03 +0100
        Re: Stack Operator Symbols Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-11-03 14:22 -0700
          Re: Stack Operator Symbols Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 00:46 +0100
        Re: Stack Operator Symbols "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-11-05 13:14 +1100
    Re: Stack Operator Symbols trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-30 06:50 -0700
      Re: Stack Operator Symbols trans <transfire@gmail.com> - 2016-10-30 08:56 -0700
      Re: Stack Operator Symbols albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-30 18:19 +0100

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