Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers"

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers"
Date	2016-08-15 08:52 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2016Aug15.105240@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <noj5ch$sn1$1@dont-email.me> <nojbt6$1l4v$1@gioia.aioe.org> <d181569f-d136-4d5d-9447-1da05b6253f1@googlegroups.com> <-pednXDWiZK50jDKnZ2dnUU7-bfNnZ2d@supernews.com> <10a472dc-3233-4611-b7f1-cacd4d4dcedb@googlegroups.com>

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mhx@iae.nl writes:
>If you follow this train of thought, then libraries of source
>code will never make it: they can't gain momentum as the user
>base is too small (at most the programmers of the language-du-jour).
>
>What could make it (if you want to follow my analogy) is open
>source software that is compiled as a shared library. In this
>way everybody/every language can use the library. Improvements
>are still possible but they have to go through the package
>maintainers. In principle it is still possible for an engineer
>to fork an existing package and maintain it privately, but in
>most cases it is not unlike designing and manufacturing your
>own IC: too many different skills are needed, can't bother.

The practice of other programming languages (e.g., JavaScript or
Python) demonstrates that source code libraries do make it.  In the
case of Javascript, even very small ones that just provide some
substring function or something.

Why have they not made it in Forth (yet)?  I can think of several
factors:

* A culture rejecting libraries; after all, Chuck Moore spoke against
  them and his saying about favouring rewriting instead of reusing
  code as-is are frequently repeated here.

* Along with that, we get vendors who do not understand what is needed
  to support source code libraries, and fight hard against including
  the necessary features in the standard.

* Small embedded systems play a big role in the minds of many Forth
  programmers, and there you generally cannot afford the inefficiency
  of using a library as-is (neither source code, nor binary).

* We have a small community, and thanks to the factors above, the
  number of people working on source code libraries is even smaller,
  so it does not reach the critical mass, unlike JavaScript or Python.

* There are also technical issues.  We have explicit memory
  management, and often this means that you can have one library that
  manages memory in one way, but is good only for some uses, and
  another library that manages memory in another way and is also good
  for some uses.  As a result, we have, e.g., lots of different string
  libraries, and none gains general acceptance.

>So, the question is not the programming language(s) to use,
>but how well what we use is able to interface to all the
>binary packaged stuff that is out there. What about using
>a .dll or .so in Standard Forth? We still can't do this
>in a standard way!

Various Forth systems offer C interfaces and you can call shared
libraries containing C code (or other ABI-compatible code) with this,
and certainly standardizing the C interface is on the agenda.

But Forth systems producing shared libraries from Forth source code
are rare; IIRC bigForth can do binary modules, but they are not
standard .so or .dll files, are they?

So in terms of binary Forth libraries, we don't have anything.  But I
also doubt that they would help.  None of the points I made above go
away when the library is supplied in binary.  We have a way to deal
with source libraries; it needs some more standardizations, but we are
certainly much farther there than for binary libraries.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2016: http://www.euroforth.org/ef16/

Thread

"Forth is Sudoku for programmers" foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-08-10 13:06 -0700
  Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-10 21:00 +0000
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-10 23:26 -0700
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-11 00:25 -0700
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 01:29 -0700
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-11 16:09 -0700
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-11 19:31 -0500
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-08-12 12:22 +1000
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-11 19:59 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-11 18:23 -1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-11 21:57 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" mhx@iae.nl - 2016-08-11 23:20 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-11 23:49 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-15 08:52 +0000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 02:31 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-08-15 22:43 +1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-08-15 14:49 +0000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-08-21 21:24 +0000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-08-22 07:04 +0300
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-08-26 07:12 +0200
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-08-26 09:18 +0300
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-08-28 21:12 +0200
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 00:04 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 01:34 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 02:17 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 08:53 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 11:54 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 17:38 -0400
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 20:02 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-15 07:10 +0000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Alex McDonald <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2016-08-15 08:34 +0100
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-15 01:11 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-08-28 21:23 +0200
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-28 14:26 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-08-29 01:44 -0500
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-29 00:45 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 14:56 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 15:02 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 22:05 -0400
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 21:05 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 22:15 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 23:39 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 00:03 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-13 00:07 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 07:35 -0400
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-13 17:17 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 20:04 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-13 20:38 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 20:46 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-14 06:02 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-08-14 23:04 +0100
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-14 16:01 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-13 21:53 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-14 07:45 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2016-08-15 06:44 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-08-14 19:57 +0200
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-14 11:17 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-14 13:59 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-14 14:09 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-14 15:48 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-14 18:34 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-19 02:24 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-20 19:26 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-21 14:58 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-21 15:51 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-21 15:52 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-24 16:35 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2016-08-14 10:32 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-14 13:55 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-08-28 21:37 +0200
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-28 15:25 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" jim.brakefield@ieee.org - 2016-08-28 16:16 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-28 16:44 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-13 20:00 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-13 20:39 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-12 22:11 -1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" dhoffman888@gmail.com - 2016-08-13 03:39 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 20:18 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 22:35 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 22:52 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 22:55 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2016-08-13 11:31 +0100
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-08-15 11:47 +1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-08-15 12:05 +1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-15 08:21 +0000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2016-08-17 22:54 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-08-12 14:51 +1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-11 21:59 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-08-13 18:04 +1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-11 23:16 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-08-13 18:47 +1000
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 22:59 -0400
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-11 20:54 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 12:36 -0400
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 15:10 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-12 17:45 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-15 18:40 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-15 20:18 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-08-28 22:18 +0200
  Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-10 15:38 -0700
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-08-10 16:18 -0700
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-11 11:39 +0000
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2016-08-12 00:23 -0700
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-21 01:56 +0000
  Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-10 20:28 -0700
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 00:23 -0700
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-11 11:26 +0000
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 11:06 -0700
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 11:51 -0700
  Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 01:48 -0700
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-11 01:52 -0700
  Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 09:42 -0700
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-08-13 13:36 -0700
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 07:06 -0700
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-14 14:10 -0700
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-16 00:46 -0700
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-16 00:57 -0700
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2016-08-16 04:45 -0700
  Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 02:16 -0700
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 03:04 -0700
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-18 09:30 -0500
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-08-18 07:44 -0700
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 11:36 -0700
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 13:41 -0700
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 14:01 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 14:33 -0700
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-18 16:23 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-18 17:28 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-18 18:59 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-18 19:07 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-29 01:09 -0700
    Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-18 17:21 -1000
      Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-18 23:36 -0700
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-19 00:11 -0700
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-19 01:44 -0700
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-19 01:46 -0700
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-08-28 22:29 +0200
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-31 03:43 -0700
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-08-19 03:49 -0500
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-19 02:18 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-08-20 05:05 -0500
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-20 15:13 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-08-21 16:33 -0500
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-21 19:37 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-21 20:02 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-21 21:36 -1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-08-22 03:36 -0500
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-19 08:40 -0500
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-08-19 15:59 -0700
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 16:28 -0700
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-19 16:31 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 17:24 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-19 19:48 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-19 20:17 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-08-20 02:16 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-08-20 02:19 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-20 03:13 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-08-20 07:03 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-20 12:21 -0500
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-08-20 20:39 +0200
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-20 15:41 -0500
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-20 14:40 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-20 17:25 -0500
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-20 20:14 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" julian.fondren@endurance.com - 2016-08-20 20:30 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-08-21 13:46 -0500
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-08-21 20:13 +0100
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-21 12:37 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-08-21 21:11 +0100
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-21 13:19 -1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-21 19:03 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-08-22 06:45 +0100
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-21 21:38 -1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-08-28 22:43 +0200
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-21 08:57 +0000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-08-28 22:40 +0200
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-21 09:57 +0000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-21 11:29 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 11:56 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-21 12:11 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 12:26 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-21 12:52 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-08-22 07:12 +0100
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-21 23:43 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-21 21:40 -1000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-08-22 17:20 +0000
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-21 13:01 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 13:16 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-08-21 20:19 +0100
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-08-21 17:41 +0000
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-08-20 02:09 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-08-20 20:04 -0700
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-08-19 09:40 -1000
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-19 13:48 -0700
          Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-26 01:13 -0700
            Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-26 04:26 -0400
              Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2016-08-26 03:06 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-26 11:54 -0400
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-08-26 20:43 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-08-27 04:20 -0700
                Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-08-28 00:04 +0000
        Re: "Forth is Sudoku for programmers" albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-08-28 22:34 +0200

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