Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp
Date	2015-05-15 12:51 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2015May15.145106@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	<mins3e$ek3$1@dont-email.me> <2015May15.092635@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <p_2dnXLIUqcNM8jInZ2dnUU7-IWdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2015May15.120345@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <5555d314$0$3000$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl>

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albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
>A one step interface can also be had by removing the default behaviour.
>
>Using a CREATE d word without DOES> would be an ambiguous condition.

That would break all the code that uses CREATE without DOES>.

There are proposals to reintroduce <BUILDS such that it works the way
you suggest for CREATE (which is funny, because <BUILDS in fig-Forth
behaved like CREATE does now and CREATE behaved differently).  But
that would still be a two-step interface, and this splitting into two
steps requires an ambiguous condition that can be avoided with a
one-step interface.

>It is an example of confounding two concepts: simple buffers and
>objects with one default method. Premature optimisation.

Maybe, although I don't think Charles Moore ist interested in the
concept of "premature optimization", he's much more concerned about
premature generalization.  And it was ok from about 1979 (it was not
present in fig-Forth, but it was present in Forth-79) into sometime in
the 2000s, when Flash became integrated into microcontrolers; it was
hard to foresee in 1979 that this would happen.  And even if we had
kept <BUILDS in 1979, it would have had the same semantics as the
current CREATE, so the benefit for the flash-based systems would have
been small.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2015: http://www.mpeforth.com/euroforth2015/euroforth2015.htm

Thread

Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 11:06 -0400
  Array of Constants in Mecrisp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 09:02 -0700
    Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 15:50 -0400
      Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 00:38 -0700
      Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-05-11 12:10 +0200
        Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 11:24 -0400
          Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-05-12 13:03 +0200
        Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-11 23:19 +0000
          Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 20:47 -0400
            Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-12 17:05 +0000
          Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-05-12 12:49 +0200
        Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 13:00 -0400
          Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-14 18:04 +0100
            Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 13:20 -0400
              Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-05-14 18:46 +0100
              Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-14 20:42 +0200
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 11:25 -0400
              Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-14 09:11 -1000
              Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-15 07:26 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-14 22:30 -1000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-15 10:03 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-15 11:05 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-15 12:51 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-15 15:40 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-16 13:40 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-16 11:25 -1000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-15 09:28 -1000
              Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 11:31 -0400
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-15 09:31 -1000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 10:00 -0400
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-16 16:12 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-16 13:58 -0400
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-05-16 18:03 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-05-18 00:36 +0200
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-05-18 08:37 +0200
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-05-18 12:55 +0200
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-05-18 13:44 +0200
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-19 00:17 +0000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-16 11:36 -1000
                Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-05-16 11:27 -1000
            Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-15 10:48 +0000
  Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-05-11 12:06 +0200
    Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 04:48 -0700
      Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-05-12 12:39 +0200
        Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2015-05-12 16:29 -0700
    Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-14 13:05 -0400
      Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-05-14 22:21 +0200
        Re: Array of Constants in Mecrisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-15 11:27 -0400

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