Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #20704
| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.arch.embedded, comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad |
| Date | 2015-04-18 09:15 +0000 |
| Organization | Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien |
| Message-ID | <2015Apr18.111524@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <87618vyb8d.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com> <mgpv33$469$1@dont-email.me> <mgr288$4dr$1@speranza.aioe.org> <2015Apr17.164257@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <cpdfipFne3kU1@mid.dfncis.de> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Hans-Bernhard_Br=F6ker?= <HBBroeker@t-online.de> writes:
>Am 17.04.2015 um 16:42 schrieb Anton Ertl:
>> I think it has something to do with more usage of Unix/Linux by
>> non-programmers (to such an extent that they don't even write their
>> own shell scripts).
>
>I don't think that argument works.
>
>There have been platforms where a very large fraction of users never
>wrote a program of their own. The biggest of those has to be Microsoft
>Windows, closely followed by MacOS.
>
>But Unix never was anywhere near the top of that category. I'm not
>aware of any system that encouraged users to write their own programs
>more strongly than Unix did: the whole "toolkit" paradigm almost forced
>_users_ to become programmers, at least at the shell script level. And
>how many other systems did come with a bona-fide HLL compiler right
>there in the box?
Pretty much any home computer from the 1970s and 1980s included BASIC.
Yes, an interpreter, but that does not stop anyone from programming.
Anyway, Unix may have the highest proportion of programmers, but it
seems that non-programmers are the primary target of the Linux
distributions these days. E.g., neither emacs nor vi nor Eclipse is
installed in Debian by default. Or look at what programming languages
are installed by default. Only those necessary for running the
scripts, no others.
Actually (and getting back on-topic a little bit) the Raspberry Pi was
created exactly to get away from the current non-programming culture
and get more people to program, like home computers did in the 1980s.
>> In the old times, we had "." first in the PATH. If I am working on a
>> new version of Gforth, and am in the build directory of Gforth, then
>> saying "gforth" gives me the development version, not the installed
>> version.
>
>And that was baskk-ackward. If only because it's a whole lot easier to
>and type the "./" prefix for the exceptional case of wanting something
>else than the normal instance of a command, than it would be to figure
>out where the "official" one might be, and type the full path to there
>every time you want to be sure you get that.
>
>The distinction between "gforth" and "./gforth" is way easier to handle
>than the one between "/opt/swserver/Forth/GForth/V5/patch1/bin/gforth"
>and "gforth".
Not in my experience: If I am in a gforth build directory, I pretty
much always want to call ./gforth rather than /usr/bin/gforth when I
type gforth. If I want to call /usr/bin/gforth, I either do it from a
different directory, or I say, e.g., gforth-0.7.0.
As for /opt, I don't know where that nonsense comes from, but it
certainly does not come from the original Unix. Proper programs are
installed in one of the directories that users have in the PATH by
default (such as /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin) rather than somewhere in
/opt (which indicates that the programmer is too lazy to make a
working "make install").
>On Microsoft platforms, you have no control over it: the
>system forces an implied '.' to the front of your PATH, whether you want
>it or not.
On Windows and MacOS, the usual way to call a program is to click on
an icon, and AFAIK that works with absolute file names, no PATH
incolved.
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/
Back to comp.arch.embedded | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-02 21:08 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad sbattazzo@gmail.com - 2015-04-13 16:18 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad sbattazzo@gmail.com - 2015-04-13 16:25 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad sbattazzo@gmail.com - 2015-04-13 16:33 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-13 21:45 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-13 21:47 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad sbattazzo@gmail.com - 2015-04-14 07:33 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-14 14:38 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:24 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-16 15:11 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 23:37 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-16 20:59 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2015-04-17 13:16 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 00:19 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-16 21:56 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 14:47 -0400
WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 15:12 -0400
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-17 20:14 +0000
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 16:59 -0400
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 10:00 +0200
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 09:32 -0400
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-04-18 15:15 +0000
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 11:31 -0400
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2015-04-18 19:21 +0300
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 16:39 -0400
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2015-04-18 18:52 +0100
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-04-18 18:55 -0400
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-04-19 09:13 +0100
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2015-04-19 13:22 +0300
Re: WAS: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad IS: Thunderbird Line Breaking David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-19 22:09 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-04-17 21:15 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 17:02 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-04-18 17:06 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 16:57 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 09:33 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad mm0fmf <none@mailinator.com> - 2015-04-20 18:03 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 01:16 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 20:20 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 17:24 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 20:40 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 17:57 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2015-04-18 02:14 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 02:05 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 10:16 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 09:56 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 17:46 +0200
USB serial ports, was: Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2015-04-18 18:34 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 10:04 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-04-18 09:38 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 11:04 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 17:54 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad hal-usenet@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) - 2015-04-18 15:36 -0500
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-04-23 07:59 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-25 14:35 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-25 15:44 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-08 12:00 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 03:36 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-10 10:32 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2015-05-10 12:56 +0300
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 10:48 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2015-05-10 16:05 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2015-05-10 23:26 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2015-05-10 09:37 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 11:16 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2015-05-10 23:42 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-11 02:17 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-05-10 11:41 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2015-05-10 16:56 +0100
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-05-10 13:01 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad lasselangwadtchristensen@gmail.com - 2015-04-18 12:13 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-04-18 19:22 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 17:04 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2015-04-20 13:24 +0300
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 13:23 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2015-04-22 20:44 +0300
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 13:51 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> - 2015-04-22 19:10 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 15:31 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> - 2015-04-23 02:08 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> - 2015-04-24 02:52 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-25 14:40 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-25 15:42 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad sbattazzo@gmail.com - 2015-04-21 09:34 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 14:57 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 15:35 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-17 10:52 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2015-04-17 14:05 +0300
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 07:56 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 17:26 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-17 17:01 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Blajrs Jrolrsen <boegre@no.com> - 2015-04-17 13:36 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-17 14:42 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2015-04-18 00:25 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 20:03 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 17:14 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 20:26 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-17 17:32 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 20:47 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-18 08:47 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 11:19 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-18 15:52 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 17:07 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-09 03:04 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 00:11 -0500
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 10:32 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-18 11:26 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 17:57 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-18 09:42 -0700
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-19 17:11 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2015-04-18 12:19 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2015-04-18 15:16 +0300
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 19:57 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2015-04-18 23:11 +0300
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-19 21:32 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2015-04-19 23:04 +0300
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-18 09:15 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 12:17 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-18 13:08 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 20:17 +0200
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-04-20 15:33 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-04-17 14:52 -0400
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-17 20:06 +0000
Re: Mecrisp on the TI Stellaris Launchpad lasselangwadtchristensen@gmail.com - 2015-04-16 16:18 -0700
csiph-web