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Re: Moon Farmers

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On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:42:38 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> >On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:25:10 -0400
> >Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Voyager did quite well, but that was decade(s?), not millennia.
> >> Technology has advanced a bit since than, but the only things humans
> >> have built to last that long have been the pyramids, which are a bit
> >> heavy for a space launch.
> >
> >	An Orion could probably be made to lift something that heavy - I
> >wouldn't want to be on the continent (or perhaps the planet) it lifts off
> >from though.
> >
> >	Anyway we have *much* smaller things that have lasted as long as
> >the pyramids, many of them inside the pyramids which is probably a
> >harsher environment than interstellar space.
> 
>  The pyramids are a far more gentle environment than interstellar space.

	Hmm - there's oxygen in them, it's nasty corrosive stuff.

>  From _Radiation Hazard of Relativistic Interstellar Flight_ (Oleg G.
> Semyonov)

	Yep that's a problem for people - rather less so for suitably
designed machines.

>  Then there is the dust hazard.
> 
>    At 50 percent the speed of light which is the minimum for
>    interstellar travel you will cover enough distance in a short
>    amount of time,

	If we run at 50% of the speed of light we're not talking about
needing machines good for millenia. If we need millenia then the dust
problem is not a problem.

>    But the situation could well be worse than this if the interstellar
>    medium contains lots of ice globules from ancient comets and other
> things we cannot begin to detect in interstellar space. These impacts
> even at 0.1c would be fatal...we just don't know what the 'size spectrum'

	Even 0.1C does not lead us to needing millenia. Requiring designs
that can last millenia to reach nearby stars implies speeds no more than
0.01C at these speeds dust is much less of a problem.

	All that being said if we want to launch interstellar probes then
the most promising speculative design I've come across is Robert Forward's
starwisp design (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starwisp). These are
expected to move at 0.1 to 0.2C and will suffer dust and radiation damage
from which their only defense is being large but sparse and thin, so fast
moving dust will only cause local damage and not impart much energy to the
structure. The hope is that redundancy will take care of the rest.

	The really good part about the design is that the probe itself is
dirt cheap, the expensive bit (the power supply) stays here where it can be
used for other purposes if the starwisp turns out to have fatal
unanticapated problems.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-16 15:29 +0000
  Re: Moon Farmers jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-17 13:22 +0000
    Re: Moon Farmers "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 05:06 +1100
      Re: Moon Farmers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-18 11:20 -0400
        Re: Moon Farmers Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-10-18 11:48 -0500
          Re: Moon Farmers Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-18 19:08 +0000
  Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-17 12:23 -0700
    Re: Moon Farmers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-18 11:20 -0400
      Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-18 17:38 +0100
        Re: Moon Farmers Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-18 13:20 -0400
      Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-18 11:53 -0700
        Re: Moon Farmers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-19 07:12 -0400
          Re: Moon Farmers Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-19 09:37 -0400
          Re: Moon Farmers Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-19 09:42 -0400
            Re: Moon Farmers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-19 11:54 -0400
              Re: Moon Farmers "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-20 10:12 +1100
          Re: Moon Farmers David Jones <djones60@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 07:47 -0700
          Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 10:58 -0400
            Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 10:10 -0500
              Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 11:26 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 13:52 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 15:09 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 14:53 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 16:06 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 18:46 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-19 16:54 -0700
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 21:02 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-10-20 11:25 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-20 07:25 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-10-20 10:32 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-20 11:55 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-20 17:01 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-20 10:23 -0700
                Re: Moon Farmers Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-10-20 13:25 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-20 19:43 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2015-10-20 16:51 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-21 03:08 -0700
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 09:54 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-19 20:14 +0100
              Re: Moon Farmers Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-19 11:40 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 13:53 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-20 10:11 +1100
            Re: Moon Farmers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-19 11:54 -0400
              Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 12:07 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-19 12:41 -0700
              Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-19 12:35 -0700
            Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-19 16:08 +0000
              Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 13:22 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-19 18:53 +0100
                Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-19 18:54 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 15:20 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 14:54 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 16:07 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-19 21:14 +0100
                Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 17:51 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-20 09:35 +0100
                Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-19 20:22 +0100
            Re: Moon Farmers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-19 15:40 -0400
              Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-19 12:43 -0700
                Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 15:59 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-20 07:25 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-10-20 12:13 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-20 18:04 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-21 14:21 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-21 19:52 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-10-21 15:13 -0500
                Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-21 17:19 -0700
                Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-22 10:03 +0100
                Re: Moon Farmers Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-22 11:53 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-23 06:29 +0100
                Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-22 17:46 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-23 05:57 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-22 09:39 -0700
                Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-22 17:48 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-10-22 17:45 -0700
                Re: Moon Farmers "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-23 05:57 +1100
                Re: Moon Farmers Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-10-22 17:56 -0700
                Re: Moon Farmers "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-23 13:10 +1100
                Re: Moon Farmers Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-22 23:32 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-10-21 20:07 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-22 17:50 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-20 14:10 +0100
                Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-20 15:42 +0000
                Re: Moon Farmers Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-20 19:07 +0100
                Re: Moon Farmers Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-20 21:20 -0500
              Re: Moon Farmers Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-19 15:56 -0400
                Re: Moon Farmers JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-10-19 18:43 -0500
            Re: Moon Farmers Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-19 18:00 -0400
          Re: Moon Farmers "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-20 10:08 +1100
      Re: Moon Farmers Greymaus <mausg@mail.com> - 2015-10-18 19:10 +0000
      Re: Moon Farmers "78lp" <78lp@nospam.com> - 2015-10-19 15:30 +1100
      Re: Moon Farmers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-19 13:15 +0000
    Re: Moon Farmers Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-18 13:25 -0400

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