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Groups > comp.lang.c > #16369

Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code

From Zoltan Kocsi <zoltan@bendor.com.au>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code
Date 2012-01-29 08:55 +1100
Organization Bendor Research Pty. Ltd.
Message-ID <20120129085501.7889efaf@tade.bendor.com.au> (permalink)
References <jfrt8u$1ru$1@reader1.panix.com> <c8bebc7ce903ec5c189bb144c96eea2e@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>

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On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:28:14 +0100
Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201201.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote:

> C is a shitty unsafe language designed to be easy to implement. It's been

C is a language originally designed to replace assembly as the primary
language for writing operating systems. Therefore, it allows you to get down
to the bare metal and deal with things what assembly gives you access to,
such as addresses, words, bits and the like. C has achieved that goal and is a
brilliant language when you have to write code for an embedded system where
you have a processor and a bucketload of peripherals but what you do not have
is gigabytes of virtual memory, clock cycles to waste and, most importantly, a
hardware budget to whack in a processor which is $10 dearer and add an other
$10 worth of memory. The fact that one can use C to write application
programs on a full-blown operating system environment is an added bonus.

Programming languages are tools and C is a very pointy and sharp tool, but in
a craftsman's hand it can create beautiful things. If you need type safety
and objects and abstract concepts and all the other stuff, you should use some
other language; there are plenty around.

> Typical Linux apps already compile with hundreds or thousands of warnings
> and everybody already ignores them. Very few people are inclined to write
> correct, safe code and of those people only a small percentage of them use
> C. 

I am one of them. I turn on all warnings on the compiler and make all
warnings errors. The thing is, most of the warnings you eliminate that way
are warnings which are the result of lazyness. You assign a pointer to a
pointer of different kind because you know that that's OK. The compiler
screams. All you have to do is to put a cast there and it keeps its mouth
shut. The result is better code because whoever reads it (including myself, a
few years down the track) can see the intention to change the pointer from
type X to type Y. There's hopefully a comment nearby explaining why that's
happening. The rest of the warnings are usually an indication of real
programming dangers (i.e. bugs which will byte you later).

> [...] inside a burning house like gcc. I realize there are plenty of C
> compilers around but unfortunately gcc is the most popular and so are forks
> of it.

The problem with gcc is that it is not just a C compiler. It is a C compiler
and a C++ compiler and an Ada compiler and a Fortran compiler and a java
compiler and a whatnotelse compiler, which should run on any machine
whatsoever, compiling for any processor and operating system combination. 

In that regards, gcc achieves a helluva lot, despite all its quirks. Yes, it
has a few extremely stupid things, yes, it sometimes generates inefficient
code (and on, admittedly very rare, occasions even incorrect code), but it
has some advantages, especially when you have to deal with multiple targets.

In addition, gcc has a lot of historical baggage which is very hard to clean
up unless you are willing to start from scratch. However, there are attempts
to rectify gcc's problems, the most prominent being LLVM + clang; time will
tell if that will succeed.

Zoltan

-- 
Zoltán Kócsi
Bendor Research Pty. Ltd.

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I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 08:27 -0700
  Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Mark Bluemel <mark_bluemel@pobox.com> - 2011-11-01 15:49 +0000
  Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-11-01 08:52 -0700
  Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2011-11-01 16:22 +0000
  Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-01 09:31 -0700
    Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ike Naar <ike@sverige.freeshell.org> - 2011-11-01 16:57 +0000
      Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 11:51 -0700
        Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 15:04 -0400
          Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-01 20:21 +0000
            Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2011-11-01 21:41 +0100
        Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 08:06 +1300
          Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 13:17 -0700
            Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-01 16:24 -0400
              Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 13:27 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-01 20:24 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2011-11-02 10:24 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-11-02 11:04 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-02 07:41 -0400
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-02 18:00 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-02 14:06 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 15:05 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 22:55 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2012-01-26 15:59 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201201.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2012-01-27 20:28 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2012-01-28 14:11 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-01-29 09:34 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Markus Wichmann <nullplan@gmx.net> - 2012-01-30 13:38 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2012-01-30 12:10 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Zoltan Kocsi <zoltan@bendor.com.au> - 2012-01-29 08:55 +1100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 21:48 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-31 21:46 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-01-31 22:30 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-08 10:11 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-08 13:51 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-09 12:51 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-09 13:36 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-09 23:50 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-09 15:01 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-09 16:21 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2012-03-10 00:57 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-03-10 13:37 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2012-03-10 13:58 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-10 12:24 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-10 14:16 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-03-11 12:50 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-03-11 00:57 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-11 03:20 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-03-12 02:10 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-03-12 10:49 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-03-14 01:16 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Robert Miles <milesrf@Usenet-News.net> - 2012-04-15 06:53 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2012-04-15 19:45 +0200
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2012-04-15 15:06 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-04-16 10:56 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-03 10:19 +1300
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-02 21:10 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-03 05:13 +0000
              Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 13:29 -0700
            Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-01 21:44 +0000
              Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 06:33 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-03 07:05 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 15:32 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-04 01:44 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 07:30 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-04 16:03 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 09:20 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-04 16:45 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 11:59 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-04 19:32 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-05 04:07 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code John Gordon <gordon@panix.com> - 2011-11-04 16:54 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 11:58 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 18:25 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code gordonb.e1fpi@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-11-04 13:50 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Pasquale Frega <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-04 11:57 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-04 14:44 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2011-11-04 14:03 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-04 21:37 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-06 12:20 +0200
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-04 08:32 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 09:04 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-04 10:28 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-03 18:35 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Pasquale Frega <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-03 14:50 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-11-03 15:59 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Pasquale Frega <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-04 12:00 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 20:58 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 21:13 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-04 01:56 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Pasquale Frega <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-04 12:12 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-05 10:09 +1300
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 15:32 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-03 22:53 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 17:57 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-03 21:35 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-04 03:31 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-04 02:25 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Kulin Remailer <remailer@reece.net.au> - 2011-11-03 22:47 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Bill Reid <hormelfree@gmail.com> - 2011-11-03 16:14 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-03 21:55 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-04 08:10 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 14:21 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-04 16:31 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-05 10:41 +1300
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-04 21:38 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-04 22:18 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Lew Pitcher <lpitcher@teksavvy.com> - 2011-11-05 11:11 -0400
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Lew Pitcher <lpitcher@teksavvy.com> - 2011-11-05 11:13 -0400
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2011-11-05 23:35 -0500
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-11-06 07:40 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-04 18:15 -0400
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 20:00 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-04 23:19 -0400
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 20:33 -0700
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-05 03:52 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-05 17:01 +1300
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 21:48 -0700
          Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 13:19 -0700
            Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 09:26 +1300
          Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 13:23 -0700
            Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 09:27 +1300
              Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 13:31 -0700
        Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring) - 2011-11-01 22:48 +0000
          Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-01-24 23:09 -0800
        Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code gordonb.prbii@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-11-01 21:24 -0500
        Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Dann Corbit <dcorbit@connx.com> - 2011-11-02 21:03 -0700
          Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ike Naar <ike@sverige.freeshell.org> - 2011-11-03 06:39 +0000
          Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2011-11-03 18:33 -0700
            Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-04 03:03 -0700
              Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 11:40 +0100
              Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-11-04 11:36 +0000
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2011-11-04 15:58 +0000
          Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 07:24 +0100
            Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 10:28 +0100
              Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 16:02 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 16:20 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-04 16:39 +0100
            Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-06 18:07 +0100
              Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2011-11-06 09:59 -0800
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-11-06 19:23 +0100
                Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-06 15:23 -0500
      Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code zemir <zemir_fp@libero.it> - 2011-11-01 11:52 -0700
        Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-11-01 23:02 +0000
  Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 03:53 -0700
    Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-11-02 08:03 -0400
      Re: I am learning C: a little problem with a simple source code Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-02 06:11 -0700

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