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Re: question about mass in GR - black holes

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alsor@interia.pl wrote:

> The so-called Schwarzschild's radius has been improvised at hot...

It is _not_ called “Schwarzschild's radius”.

“improvised at hot” does not mean anything (in English).

The _Schwarzschild_ radius is a consequence of how (very well) general 
relativity models gravity:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_metric>

> and by some strongly imbecilic mainstream students, I think.

Sadly, you still have no clue.
 
> One simple fact destroys completely this idiotic fantasy about the black
> holes:

The fantasy is yours.  There is *a lot* of *observational evidence* that 
black holes exist.

- Pairs of black holes have been *observed* to *merge* four times now:

  <https://www.ligo.org/detections/GW170814/press-release/pr-english.pdf>

- We can observe cores of other galaxies emitting relativistic jets, caused
  only when matter is ripped apart, accelerated, and heated when falling
  towards by a supermassive black hole:

  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrophysical_jet#/media/File:M87_jet.jpg>
  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermassive_black_hole>

- All observations of the vicinity of the radio source Sagittarius A* in the
  center of the Milky Way (our own galaxy) correspond with the assumption
  that it is a supermassive black hole:

  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittarius_A*>

- Not far into the future, we should be able to observe that black hole
  directly for the first time:

  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_Horizon_Telescope>

See also:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Observational_evidence>
 
> a positron-electron annihilation in the gravitational condition!

Gravity is currently best modeled by *general* relativity.  Positron–
electron annihilation is currently best modeled by quantum electrodynamics, 
a *special*-relativistic quantum field theory.

A unified theory that would be required to describe this situation exactly 
(quantum gravity) is vastly more complex that you think (or could comprehend 
at your point in the learning curve).  Which is why so far, *nobody* has 
managed to come up with one that satisfies all observations.  Even Hawking 
only managed describe the evaporation of a black hole in the classical 
limit.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_gravity>

> E0 = mc^2 - that is the standard energy from annihilation of: m = 2m_e,

E₀ is the _rest_ energy in the *center-of-momentum* frame.  The *total* 
energy of a particle is always

  E  = E₀ + Eₖ

and

  E² = m²c⁴ + p²c²

and for massive particles

  p = γ m v = m v∕√(1 − v²∕c²)

so for them,

  E = γ m c²

[so their magnitude of momentum p, and their total energy, increases *non-
linearly* with relative speed v:

<http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?dataset=&i=plot+m+c%5E2%2Fsqrt(1+-+v%5E2%2Fc%5E2)+where+m+%3D+1,
+c+%3D+1,+v+%3D+0+to+1>]

When particles collide, their previous kinetic energies Eₖ = m c² (γ − 1) 
contributes to the collision energy, which is why we use particle 
*accelerators* to produce particles with comparably large masses, like Higgs 
bosons [m(H⁰) ≈ 125 GeV/c²].  For that, in the LHC the gluons of protons 
collide at close to the speed of light in vacuum relative to the center-of-
momentum frame (inside the detectors, e.g. the CMS).

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson>
<https://cds.cern.ch/record/2255762/files/CERN-Brochure-2017-002-Eng.pdf>
 
> But in the gravity the energy is lowered to:
> E = E0 sqrt(1-2M/r);

How did you get that idea?
 
> for r = 2M, the E = 0,

I suppose that you are referring to the Schwarzschild radius rₛ = 2 G M∕c², 
and that you use natural units where G = c = 1, because a radius is _not_ a 
mass.  Probably someone has told you this before.
  
> thus it's evident: E = mc^2 = 0 => m = 0

Your oversimplification has made you to claim nonsense again.  When will you 
start studying what you are talking about?

> So, this means: mass of any matter decreases under gravity. […]

Ex falso quodlibet.


PointedEars
-- 
A neutron walks into a bar and inquires how much a drink costs.
The bartender replies, "For you? No charge."

(from: WolframAlpha)

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question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-07 14:23 -0800
  Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-08 18:02 +0100
    Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-17 15:16 -0700
      Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-18 17:33 +0100
        Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Darryl Fletcher <lu@ewiwwe.tt> - 2018-03-18 17:05 +0000
          Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-18 18:08 +0100
        Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-18 10:49 -0700
          Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-18 21:02 +0100
            Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-18 14:24 -0700
              Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-18 22:58 +0100
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-19 10:04 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-20 04:43 +0100
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-20 12:42 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-20 21:03 +0100
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-20 14:04 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-20 23:59 +0100
  Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-03-08 17:43 -0600
    Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-03-08 19:51 -0600
      Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-03-17 10:20 +0000
    Re: question about mass in GR - black holes mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-03-08 21:25 -0800
      Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-03-09 06:31 +0100
    Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-17 15:40 -0700
      Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-03-18 01:05 -0500
        Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-18 12:57 +0000
        Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-18 10:23 -0700
          Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-18 10:35 -0700
            Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-18 11:11 -0700
              Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-18 11:18 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-18 11:40 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-18 11:50 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-18 12:29 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-18 11:43 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-18 11:45 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-18 11:44 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-18 11:46 -0700
              Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-03-18 19:40 +0100
          Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-03-20 19:39 -0500
            Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-21 10:26 -0700
              Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-03-21 19:13 -0500
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-21 17:55 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-03-22 00:08 -0500
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-03-22 00:05 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-22 14:06 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-22 14:37 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 18:09 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-21 18:19 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 18:43 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 18:46 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-21 20:22 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 20:55 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 21:11 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 21:21 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 21:26 -0700
                Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 20:49 -0700
  Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 15:45 +0000
  Re: question about mass in GR - black holes numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-20 13:51 -0700
    Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 23:02 +0000
  Re: question about mass in GR - black holes numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-20 13:54 -0700
  Re: question about mass in GR - black holes Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 10:40 -0700
    Re: question about mass in GR - black holes "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-21 11:17 -0700
    Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-21 11:27 -0700
  Re: question about mass in GR - black holes numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-22 15:26 -0700
    Re: question about mass in GR - black holes alsor@interia.pl - 2018-03-29 15:25 -0700

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