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Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other

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Ben Morrow wrote:

> Quoth Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <php@PointedEars.de>:
>> Ben Morrow wrote:
>> > Note that the Perl in that article (or at least, the first page, which
>> > was all I read) is pretty bad:
>> > 
>> > […]
>> >     - using PHP to talk to a database, when Perl's DBI module is
>> >       considerably better than PHP's rather random database functions.
>> > 
>> > I don't know PHP well enough to comment on it,
>> 
>> Yet you did, which shows that you have never used PHP Data Objects (PDO).
>> “*Random* database functions”?  IBTD.
> 
> I have not. The database functions used in the article referenced were
> mssql_connect and so on, which last time I used PHP (a long time ago)
> was all there was. I don't think you can deny that *those* functions
> (and the equivalent set for other databases) are a nasty mess.

Most certainly I deny that.  I agree that several of those functions are 
unsafe, and it is unfortunate that the order of arguments for MS SQL is 
different than, for example, MySQL.  But IMHO that is still a long way from 
“a nasty mess”.  They have been used and have worked for the better part of 
a decade.  After all, they have helped to build the Web that we have today, 
so they cannot be all bad, can they?

AFAIK the first step towards a better interface (with support for Prepared 
Statements) was mysqli by MySQL AB, now Oracle, with PHP 5.0 or later.  Then 
came PDO and others.

> I tried to make it clear that I understand the state of the PHP art has
> improved since then.

The state of the PHP art as the article suggests was even better back then.  
You should not assume that the quality of PHP code as it can be found in 
such articles, in blogs, and Web forums reflects the quality of the 
programming language at the time.  In fact, you would do well to assume that 
it reflects the exact opposite.  The same is true for other (overly) 
beginner-friendly languages, for example ECMAScript implementations like 
JavaScript.  (And if you know that ECMAScript and its implementations as 
well as PHP range among my favorite languages despite their flaws, you also 
know that I do not make such statements lightly.)

> My major point was that I don't see any good reason to call into PHP
> just to connect to a database, when Perl already has perfectly good
> database code. Had the example been written the other way around the
> equivalent point could of course have been made about calling into Perl.
> 
>> > but I wouldn't be surprised if the PHP code was just as bad (for
>> > instance, I understand PHP has a saner database interface these days; I
>> > don't know if it existed in 2007, though).
>>  
>> It did; for example, “PDO [shipped] with PHP 5.1”, “[r]eleased: 24 Nov
>> 2005”, which is not that hard to find out:
> 
> Not that hard had I been interested, which I'm not, and had I known
> 'PDO' was the term to look for, which I didn't.

Please don't play stupid with me.  That section is part of a chapter of the 
PHP manual about several database interfaces.

> (I was actually thinking of the PEAR DB module, which I've observed is a
> thing that exists.

Many things exist on PEAR, written by third parties, some with stupid 
interfaces; the same was as many things exist on CPAN, some with stupid 
interfaces.

<OT>

For example, I remember Number::Format from CPAN to be particularly stupid 
with regard to locales:

my ( $thousands_sep, $mon_thousands_sep, $grouping, $decimal_point ) =
  @{ localeconv() }{ 'thousands_sep', 'mon_thousands_sep', 'grouping',
  'decimal_point' };

# Apply defaults if values are missing
$thousands_sep = $mon_thousands_sep unless $thousands_sep;
$thousands_sep = ' ' unless $thousands_sep;

# grouping and mon_grouping are packed lists
# of small integers (characters) telling the
# grouping (thousand_seps and mon_thousand_seps
# being the group dividers) of numbers and
# monetary quantities.  The integers' meanings:
# 255 means no more grouping, 0 means repeat
# the previous grouping, 1-254 means use that
# as the current grouping.  Grouping goes from
# right to left (low to high digits).  In the
# below we cheat slightly by never using anything
# else than the first grouping (whatever that is).
my @grouping;
if ($grouping)
{
  @grouping = unpack( "C*", $grouping );
}
else
{
  @grouping = (3);
}

## FIXME: Why don't the defaults work already?
my $formatter = new Number::Format(
  -decimal_point => $decimal_point,
  -thousands_sep => $thousands_sep,
  -kibi_suffix   => ' KiB',
  -mebi_suffix   => ' MiB',
  -gibi_suffix   => ' GiB',

  # -grouping      => $grouping[0]
);

echo $formatter->format(421337);

----
Does that not qualify as a “god-awful mess” for you for something so basic 
such as formatting numbers?  [It is not really better in PHP with 
number_format(), though.  Apparently, despite its obvious importance – what 
have *computers* originally been built for? –, easy and proper number 
formatting, and string formatting in general, apparently is not on the list 
of priorities in many programming language designs.  As if many language 
designers subscribed to the paradigm ”Who cares?  Let the developer reinvent 
the wheel over and over again” :-/]

</OT>

> Again, I've no idea if this is the currently-recommended database
> interface, or how it compares with the Perl DBI.)

I can recommend it from professional experience, because it is a very clean 
and efficient, object-oriented, easily customizable, and rather compatible 
interface.  Zend Framework uses it by default, for example.  Which allows 
you in many cases just to switch the database adapter if you switch the 
DBMS.  (In case you do not know, the people who wrote/write the PHP VM are 
at Zend.)

So I can only strongly suggest again that you RTFM and STFW before you make 
any statement about languages that you say (or think) you do not know well 
enough to make statements about, unless you want to make a fool out of 
yourself.


HTH

PointedEars
-- 
> If you get a bunch of authors […] that state the same "best practices"
> in any programming language, then you can bet who is wrong or right...
Not with javascript. Nonsense propagates like wildfire in this field.
  -- Richard Cornford, comp.lang.javascript, 2011-11-14

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randomly sorting files in php Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-28 17:49 -0800
  Re: randomly sorting files in php Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-28 23:45 -0500
    Re: randomly sorting files in php Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-28 22:23 -0800
      Re: randomly sorting files in php David Robley <me@home.invalid> - 2013-03-01 17:24 +1030
        Re: randomly sorting files in php Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-03 18:59 -0800
          getting perl and php to talk to each other,  was Re: randomly sorting files in php Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-05 01:19 -0800
            Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other,  was Re: randomly sorting   files in php "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-03-05 19:43 +0100
              Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other,  was Re: randomly sorting   files in php The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-05 19:20 +0000
            Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-03-05 22:06 +0000
              Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-06 00:20 +0100
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-03-05 23:59 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-06 01:01 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-03-05 20:08 -0500
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-06 22:37 -0800
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-03-07 06:57 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-07 00:52 -0800
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-03-07 08:17 -0500
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-14 03:41 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-14 11:14 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-03-14 08:06 -0400
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-14 04:18 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Scott Johnson <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> - 2013-03-14 05:38 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-03-07 14:25 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-03-07 08:14 -0500
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-06 02:08 +0100
              Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-06 22:53 -0800
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-03-07 09:46 +0100
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other David Robley <me@home.invalid> - 2013-03-07 21:43 +1030
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2013-03-07 07:32 -0600
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-03-07 06:28 -0500
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> - 2013-03-07 14:33 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-14 02:16 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-14 03:28 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-03-14 06:51 -0400
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-18 12:54 +0100
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-03-18 20:23 -0400
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-07 19:09 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Henry Law <news@lawshouse.org> - 2013-03-07 20:09 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-14 02:23 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-07 20:43 +0000
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Alastair Black <abqab.nemo@example.net> - 2013-03-07 14:47 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-03-07 23:11 +0100
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Alastair Black <abqab.nemo@example.net> - 2013-03-07 15:50 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-03-07 19:45 -0500
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-14 02:19 -0700
                Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-03-14 07:55 -0400
                where to put the binaries was Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-14 03:11 -0700
                Re: where to put the binaries was Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-03-14 11:12 +0000
                Re: where to put the binaries was Re: getting perl and php to talk to each other Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-03-14 08:04 -0400
  Re: randomly sorting files in php Captain Paralytic <paul_lautman@yahoo.com> - 2013-03-04 02:45 -0800
    Re: randomly sorting files in php Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-03-14 03:39 -0700

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