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Groups > comp.sys.mac.advocacy > #149939

Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing.

From Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.advocacy, comp.sys.mac.system, comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing.
Date 2026-10-29 11:40 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <11c03ui$3k0f7$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <11btpvt$2qkb3$1@dont-email.me> <11btqau$2qnvk$1@dont-email.me> <11bvbnb$3a2ck$1@dont-email.me> <11c0058$3ievq$1@dont-email.me> <11c02je$3jg67$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 2026-10-29 11:17, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/29/26 1:35 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2026-10-29 04:46, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/28/26 5:43 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> You corrected me on the local rules and I accepted and respected 
>>>>> your reply.
>>>> Only after arguing it ENDLESSLY.
>>>>
>>>> I'll tell you one little thing:
>>>>
>>>> The line IN to the middle of a corner...
>>>>
>>>> ...from braking to speed necessary to simply negotiate it...
>>>>
>>>> ...forms a parabola...
>>>>
>>>> ...for any corner up to 90 degrees.
>>>
>>> NO! It's a lot mope complicated. Google "is a parabola always fastest 
>>> racing line" please. But you won't, so I will save you the trouble:
>>
>> 1. So you think AI is right.
>>
>> As I said: you should quite when you're behind.
>>
>>>
>>> Quote:
>>>
>>> No, a parabola is not always the fastest racing line.
>>> While a symmetric parabolic line (often associated with trail braking 
>>> into a pinched corner and an early throttle-out) works well for 
>>> certain isolated or specific turn types, the absolute fastest racing 
>>> line depends heavily on the context of the track.
>>
>> Ummmm....nope.
>>
>>>
>>> Why a Parabola Isn't Always Fastest
>>>
>>> • Corner Isolation vs. Sequences: A geometric or parabolic line 
>>> assumes a corner exists in complete isolation. On a real track, 
>>> corners connect to other corners, hairpins, or straights, meaning you 
>>> must compromise entry or mid-corner speed to maximize acceleration 
>>> onto the most important or longest straight.
>>
>> Whether or not you need to compromise entry changes many things, but 
>> for the braking phase of a corner, the object is to change the vector 
>> of the car's velocity in the most efficient way possible.
>>
>>>
>>> • Car Performance and Power: For low-power cars, prioritizing a late 
>>> apex to get on the throttle earlier outweighs maintaining a smooth 
>>> parabolic mid-corner speed. For high-power or heavy cars, the physics 
>>> of weight transfer and tire grip change the ideal curve.
>>
>> Not during the braking phase.
>>
>> It changes what the precise VALUES are, but the shape is still parabolic.
>>
>>>
>>> • Alternative Mathematical Curves: True mathematical optimizations 
>>> for race tracks frequently use Euler spirals (clothoids) or compound 
>>> curves rather than a simple parabola to transition smoothly between 
>>> straight- line braking, steady turning radius, and full-throttle exit.
>>
>> And that's going back to what was already wrong.
>>
>>>
>>> • Defensive Driving and Traffic: Real-world racing requires adjusting 
>>> lines to block competitors, avoid marbles/debris off-line, or manage 
>>> wet weather grip, overriding pure theoretical geometry.
>>
>> And that's outside the scope of the discussion.
> 
> OMG Fakerboy. We are talking about the racing line, not the practice or 
> qualifying line.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> End quote
>>>
>>> Hmmmm
>>>
>>> Maybe your mistaken belief in parabolic racing lines helps explain 
>>> how McKay, McColl and Floer beat you so often.
>>
>> LOL!
> 
> Quoting you:
> 
>  >>> The line IN to the middle of a corner...
>  >>>
>  >>> ...from braking to speed necessary to simply negotiate it...
>  >>>
>  >>> ...forms a parabola...
>  >>>
>  >>> ...for any corner up to 90 degrees.
> 
> End quote.
> 
> A parabola is a functional form for a line that can be precisely 
> graphed. No race car driver EVER drove a precise parabola. In Geometry 1 
> I learned a line has length and 0 width. That's right, 0, not an atom, 
> not an electron, 0. A parabola is a theoretical geometric construct that 
> can be approximated in the real world. As is a circle, a square, a 
> hexagon, etc.
> 
> A parabolic-like SHAPE may be correct in some special cases. For 
> example, your restriction to less than 90 degrees as a special case. 
> Even then real world differences in the car and the track (especially if 
> curves involve elevation and banking changes) will dictate other racing 
> lines.
> 
> So do you contend that a parabolic shape is the best racing line in all 
> situations for all track curves? if so, prove me wrong.

You just two posts ago claimed the clothoid was the "best racing line" 
without caveats...

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Thread

How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-23 13:00 -0700
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 07:38 -0400
    Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-26 11:55 -0700
      Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 09:19 -0400
        Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-10-28 11:37 -0400
          Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:32 -0400
            Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-10-29 07:50 -0400
              Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 13:55 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-10-29 16:38 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-30 10:27 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-10-30 11:54 -0400
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 11:49 -0400
    Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-26 11:34 -0700
      Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 09:58 -0400
        Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-28 11:57 -0700
          Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:38 -0400
            Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-28 14:43 -0700
              Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 07:46 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 10:35 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 14:17 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 11:40 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-30 10:41 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-30 10:24 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-30 14:39 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-30 11:57 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-31 21:18 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-31 20:14 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 11:14 -0700
                OT: And the coward ducked out of this one... (was Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-30 10:26 -0700
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 18:15 -0400
    Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 15:56 -0700
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 08:08 +0000

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