Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #146573

Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing.

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

On 28.10.26 22:38, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 10/28/26 2:57 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2026-10-28 06:58, Tom Elam wrote:
>>> On 10/26/26 2:34 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2026-10-26 08:49, Tom Elam wrote:
>>>>> On 10/23/26 4:00 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> So far, I haven't found a convincing reference that makes that 
>>>>>> exact identification. I did find some useful sources discussing the 
>>>>>> mathematical shape of a racing line, which help distinguish a 
>>>>>> catenary from other curves that might look similar.'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just Google "catenary curve in road racing" guys
>>>>>
>>>>> The Misconception vs. The Reality
>>>>>
>>>>> In racing, drivers strive to find the line of maximum radius (the 
>>>>> geometric apex) or the line of maximum exit speed (the late apex).
>>>>>
>>>>> • The Misconception: Some automotive enthusiasts use "catenary" to 
>>>>> describe a smooth, naturally flowing, variable-radius curve that 
>>>>> transitions seamlessly into and out of a corner.
>>>>>
>>>>> • The Reality: True racing lines do not follow a catenary formula 
>>>>> (\(y = a \cdot \cosh(x/a)\)). Instead, they are composed of 
>>>>> clothoids (Euler spirals) for entering and exiting a turn, and 
>>>>> circular arcs at the apex.
>>>>>
>>>>> And this
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why Track Designers Use Spirals (Not Catenaries)
>>>>>
>>>>> When a race car transitions from a straightaway into a corner, it 
>>>>> cannot instantly switch from zero steering angle to a sharp turning 
>>>>> angle. Doing so would upset the chassis and break tire traction.
>>>>>
>>>>> • Linear Steering Input: Designers use clothoid spirals because they 
>>>>> mirror human physiology and physics. As a driver turns the steering 
>>>>> wheel at a constant speed while driving forward, the car naturally 
>>>>> traces a clothoid.
>>>>>
>>>>> • Load Transfer: This gradual increase in curvature allows the 
>>>>> weight of the vehicle to shift smoothly to the outside tires, 
>>>>> maximizing grip.
>>>>
>>>> You should quit while you're behind.
>>>
>>> Yet another example of Fakerboy acting like his insulting behavior 
>>> model, Donald Trump.
>>>
>>> So, what exactly is wrong with the statements above that are not mine, 
>>> but were found on the web? You will not answer, you will deflect with 
>>> another insult.
>>>
>>> A catenary line implies you would tangentially touch the apex at a 
>>> single point halfway through a constant radius curve. That is far from 
>>> ideal.
>>>
>>> The quote below applies to single curves. Chicanes get a lot more 
>>> complicated depending on how tight they are. Also, curves are not 
>>> always constant radius.
>>>
>>> Reference: Google "clothoid racing line" to find:
>>>
>>> quote:
>>>
>>> What is a Clothoid Racing Line?
>>>
>>> • Smooth Transition: Instead of a driver abruptly steering into a 
>>> sharp, fixed-radius circular arc, a clothoid-based entry and exit 
>>> smoothly blend the straightaway into the corner.
>>>
>>> • Control of Lateral Force: It ramps up lateral (centripetal) 
>>> acceleration gradually rather than instantaneously, preventing sudden 
>>> tire slip or chassis shock.
>>>
>>> • Optimization in Path Planning: Autonomous vehicle controllers and 
>>> automated racing algorithms use clothoid segments or splines to 
>>> mathematically map the ideal, continuous path between straight and 
>>> curved track segments.
>>>
>>> Why Not Just Use a Standard Circle?
>>>
>>> • A True Circle is Suboptimal: A pure circular racing line forces a 
>>> constant speed or awkward trail-braking transition if you are driving 
>>> at the limit.
>>>
>>> • Jerk and Grip Management: Real-world racing lines use variable- 
>>> radius approaches (resembling Euler spirals or oval/droop-snoot 
>>> trajectories) to delay braking, maximize the apex speed, and get the 
>>> car pointing straight toward the exit sooner.
>>>
>>> end quote
>>>
>>> PS: I learned this years ago racing go karts. The truth is that the 
>>> ideal racing line is different for every race course and cannot be a 
>>> single simple symmetrical curve for every corner.
>>
>> Your "analysis" is as shallow as the argument you made when you first 
>> declared that Honda-powered Formula F cars weren't legal at Mission.
> 
> Total BS. Just another Trump-like knee-jerk response.
> 
> I learned racing lines following faster go kart drivers many years ago. 
> The above makes total sense to me. If you disagree feel free to share 
> your knowledge. Until then shut up.
> 
> You corrected me on the local rules and I accepted and respected your reply.

Is ist possible for you two OT-Trolls to have this discussion privately?!

-- 
Ave Caesar! Morituri te salutant!

Back to comp.sys.mac.system | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-23 13:00 -0700
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-10-25 09:11 +0100
    Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-25 11:05 -0700
      Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-10-25 22:19 +0100
        Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-25 14:38 -0700
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 07:38 -0400
    Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-26 11:55 -0700
      Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 09:19 -0400
        Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2026-10-28 11:37 -0400
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-26 11:49 -0400
    Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-26 11:34 -0700
      Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 09:58 -0400
        Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-28 11:57 -0700
          Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 17:38 -0400
            Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-28 14:43 -0700
              Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 07:46 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 10:35 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-29 14:17 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 11:40 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-30 10:41 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-30 10:24 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-30 14:39 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-30 11:57 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 11:14 -0700
                OT: And the coward ducked out of this one... (was Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-30 10:26 -0700
            Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-10-29 07:46 +0100
              Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 01:26 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> - 2026-10-29 11:17 +0100
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 11:09 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. News <News@Group.Name> - 2026-10-29 16:04 -0400
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-29 13:13 -0700
                Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. News <News@Group.Name> - 2026-10-30 09:59 -0400
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 18:15 -0400
    Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-27 15:56 -0700
  Re: How badly Arlen/Maria gets it wrong: the catenary curve and road racing. Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-28 08:08 +0000

csiph-web