Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c

From	bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c
Date	2026-09-30 16:54 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<119jbb0$cf04$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(12 earlier) <119i561$3quji$1@dont-email.me> <119iolt$4rod$1@dont-email.me> <119iuef$3quji$3@dont-email.me> <119j09u$7trn$1@dont-email.me> <119j2tl$87ep$1@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw

On 30/09/2026 14:30, David Brown wrote:
> On 30/09/2026 14:45, bart wrote:
>> On 30/09/2026 13:14, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>
>>
>>> You mean when I point out that you are hallucinating, presenting your
>>> personal opinions as facts,
>>
>> About shadowing? Michael S made similar remarks to mine. Perhaps he's 
>> hallucinating too.
> 
> Michael wrote that /sometimes/ shadowing hides bugs that might otherwise 
> have been noticed by the programmer and/or trigger a compilation error. 
> And some people and coding standards actively avoid shadowing.
> 
> That's all fair.
> 
> And it also shows that it is personal opinion - even when multiple 
> people happen to share the same opinion.  Janis's opinions on shadowing 
> are no more or less factual than yours, and no more or less valid.  You 
> can dislike shadowing if you want,

I didn't give my opinions on it. I pointed out some issues with it.
Examples:

BC (me):

 >It can be useful, it can also introduce subtle bugs if done 
inadvertently.

JP:
 >I interpret it that as that you are telling me that *you* introduced
"subtle bugs". (Okay, we know you, so that is not too surprising. But
I rather suspect you are just saying that just to make an argument.)

BC:
 > Of you forget to define a local variable and accidentally overwrite, 
or just use, the global version.

JP:
 >This is obviously your personal problem; operating on something you
haven't declared is not a problem of shadowing.

JP about possible issues with shadowing:

 > And never heard anyone complaining about it.

 > In decades I also
 > don't recall that subtile (or obvious) errors had been reported
 > because of that. (Are you, yet again, just making things up for
 > the argument or have you any different observations from your
 > personal coding practice?)

Every single riposte from JP has to be a personal barb and insult, and 
of course dismisses my point 100% out of hand. Something wrong there.

> you can disable it in your language 
> if you want,

I don't like that inadvertent shadowing that leads to odd bugs isn't 
reported. But that is how it has worked for decades.

(However, one feature I have which is out-of-order definitions, together 
with the ability to omit having a main() wrapper around top-level 
executable statement, is very susceptible to such errors. So that has 
been banned on one language and in another is only used for throwaway 
programs.)

Clashes between the same imported name /are/ detected, so that I know to 
do something about it. Another approach would be to silently use the 
first match.

(I don't know what languages do that other than Python using 'from' 
imports. I don't know enough C++ to try it out via 'using'.)

Thread

official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-27 10:20 +0200
  Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-27 20:04 +0200
    Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-27 21:38 +0100
      Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-27 23:16 +0200
        Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 00:53 +0100
          Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 04:31 +0200
          Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 10:25 +0200
            Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 11:45 +0100
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 13:56 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 14:38 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 16:12 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 16:52 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 18:49 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 20:26 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 09:45 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 12:54 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 15:56 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 18:15 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 20:24 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-29 19:41 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-09-29 21:37 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 01:33 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 09:28 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 13:41 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-01 07:25 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-01 17:50 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-01 09:37 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 01:19 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 09:44 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-29 16:01 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 01:00 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 13:01 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-01 08:52 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 01:56 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-01 07:15 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-29 09:28 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 07:10 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 15:30 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-29 09:03 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 11:11 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-29 14:38 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 07:02 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 11:35 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 14:14 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 13:45 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 15:30 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 17:14 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 16:42 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 18:02 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 16:54 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 18:26 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 22:12 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-01 09:44 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-10-01 10:42 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-01 13:50 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-10-01 12:29 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-02 09:35 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-02 04:03 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-02 13:50 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-02 11:22 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-02 18:33 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-03 14:30 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-03 16:37 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-01 13:29 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-01 14:46 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-01 15:37 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-02 08:57 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-02 00:37 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 17:12 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 14:09 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 13:55 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 14:31 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 16:12 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 19:33 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-30 18:14 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-10-01 08:34 -0400
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 07:08 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 15:02 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-29 14:43 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 16:07 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 22:58 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 00:13 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 07:13 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-01 02:41 +0800
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 14:15 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 14:18 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 13:24 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 14:45 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 15:56 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 22:31 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 14:32 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 17:22 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 17:24 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 09:54 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 16:48 -0700
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-28 14:16 +0200
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-09-28 11:15 -0400
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 16:40 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 16:50 -0700
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 06:38 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 14:36 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 22:49 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 23:59 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 16:51 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 01:54 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-09-29 22:09 -0400
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 10:52 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 12:38 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-01 08:49 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-10-01 08:48 -0400
    Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-28 06:45 +0000
      Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 12:42 +0200
        Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 00:58 +0000
          Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 03:02 +0200
            Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 03:16 +0000
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 14:20 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-09-29 12:39 -0400
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 22:50 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 02:57 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 02:00 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 10:08 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 13:58 +0200
      Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 11:43 +0100
        Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 01:00 +0000
        Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 07:59 +0200
      Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-09-28 11:03 -0400
    Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c NOTE fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 17:50 +0200
    Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 12:42 -0700
  Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-28 00:02 +0200

csiph-web