Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c

From	bart <bc@freeuk.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c
Date	2026-09-29 18:15 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<119gro2$3g678$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(11 earlier) <119e5ri$2h3ep$1@dont-email.me> <119ef1m$2l27o$1@dont-email.me> <119fqat$31nv1$1@dont-email.me> <119g8t8$38c73$1@dont-email.me> <119gg2o$3b848$1@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw

On 29/09/2026 14:56, David Brown wrote:
> On 29/09/2026 13:54, bart wrote:
>> My claim is that all these tasks can be done with Print, and it is 
>> useful to have it as a built-in feature.
> 
> Built-in print is great for "Hello, world!" level programs, and a bit 
> beyond that - but it quickly fails for larger needs.

That is nonsense.

>> Such as? Come on, give me a challenge!
> 
> I gave some already.
> 
> Other things include formatted output to log files, formatting of 
> different types (not just built-in ones), saving logs in eeprom, using 
> different languages for the fixed parts of the strings.  Basically, 
> anything that the toolchain writer and/or language designer didn't think 
> of in the first place.
And yet some sort of friendlier Print feature is generally provided by a 
language, on top of a set of I/O routines.

For example Lua has print() as well as io.write. I think Python also has 
'io', and 'sys', and 'os'.

So they recognise that providing the simpler Print feature as well adds 
something.

So do I! I just go further and make it built-in to make even more 
convenient and with nicer syntax.

 > formatting of different types (not just built-in ones)

This is a separate requirement. If you mean being able to use standard 
Print on a user-type so that it invokes a user-defined stringify 
routine, then C has some trouble here too.

(I have it in my dynamic language, achieved by overloading the 'tostr' 
operator that Print usually applies implicitly. Print is built-in.)

 >, using
 > different languages for the fixed parts of the strings.

This is that weird ordering thing of printf? You do know you can apply 
other language features to expressions before submitting the results to 
Print?

You can also not use Print in this case. I use Print for convenience and 
during development.

>> My first scripting language has Print with an option 'dev' like this:
>>
>>    print #dev, items..
>>
>> 'dev' could refer to the console, an open file, an LPT port, a COM 
>> port, a graphics window, an image, or a string.
> 
> That's only the things /you/ thought about at the time.  It doesn't 
> cover what other people think of later.

What other destinations can you think of? Bear in mind that in Linux, 
most such things seems to be part of the file system, and that is 
already covered.

>> Here the language also takes care of overloads. I happen to think that 
>> Print is as fundamental as this.
>>
> 
> In your limited bubble, that's maybe fine.  I'm not saying it is a bad 
> choice for /your/ language - it's a bad choice for most scalable 
> general-purpose languages.

You do know you can have both built-in Print /and/ an I/O library? This 
point was made above.

>>> And with the C++ version, when you make "i" a complex number, it 

>> OK, that's getting there. But how many advanced, complex (and 
>> inefficient-to-compile) language features are needed to arrive at this 
>> point?
> 
> It needs _Generic, and variadic macros.

I was thinking of C++. But _Generic and variadic macros in C (add them 
to variadic functions) I would class as a hack.

Thread

official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-27 10:20 +0200
  Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-27 20:04 +0200
    Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-27 21:38 +0100
      Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-27 23:16 +0200
        Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 00:53 +0100
          Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 04:31 +0200
          Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 10:25 +0200
            Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 11:45 +0100
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 13:56 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 14:38 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 16:12 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 16:52 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-28 18:49 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 20:26 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 09:45 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 12:54 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 15:56 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 18:15 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 20:24 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-29 19:41 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-09-29 21:37 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 01:33 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 09:28 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 13:41 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-01 07:25 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-01 17:50 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-01 09:37 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 01:19 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 09:44 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-29 16:01 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 01:00 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 13:01 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-01 08:52 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 01:56 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-01 07:15 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-29 09:28 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 07:10 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 15:30 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-29 09:03 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 11:11 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-29 14:38 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 07:02 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 11:35 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 14:14 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 13:45 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 15:30 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 17:14 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 16:42 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 18:02 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 16:54 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 18:26 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 22:12 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-01 09:44 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-10-01 10:42 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-01 13:50 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-10-01 12:29 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-02 09:35 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-02 04:03 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-02 13:50 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-02 11:22 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-10-02 18:33 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-03 14:30 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-10-03 16:37 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-01 13:29 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-10-01 14:46 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-01 15:37 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-10-02 08:57 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-10-02 00:37 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 17:12 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 14:09 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 13:55 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 14:31 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 16:12 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 19:33 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-30 18:14 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-10-01 08:34 -0400
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 07:08 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 15:02 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-29 14:43 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 16:07 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 22:58 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 00:13 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 07:13 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-01 02:41 +0800
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 14:15 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 14:18 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 13:24 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 14:45 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 15:56 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 22:31 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 14:32 +0300
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 17:22 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 17:24 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-29 09:54 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 16:48 -0700
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-28 14:16 +0200
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-09-28 11:15 -0400
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 16:40 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 16:50 -0700
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 06:38 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 14:36 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 22:49 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-29 23:59 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 16:51 -0700
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 01:54 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-09-29 22:09 -0400
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-30 10:52 +0100
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-30 12:38 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-01 08:49 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-10-01 08:48 -0400
    Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-28 06:45 +0000
      Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 12:42 +0200
        Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 00:58 +0000
          Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 03:02 +0200
            Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 03:16 +0000
              Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 14:20 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-09-29 12:39 -0400
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 22:50 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 02:57 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-30 02:00 +0000
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 10:08 +0200
                Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 13:58 +0200
      Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-28 11:43 +0100
        Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-29 01:00 +0000
        Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-30 07:59 +0200
      Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-09-28 11:03 -0400
    Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c NOTE fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-28 17:50 +0200
    Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 12:42 -0700
  Re: official library of tiny functions lacking in c tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2026-09-28 00:02 +0200

csiph-web