Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?

From	"R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.mobile.android
Subject	Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference?
Date	2026-09-12 14:08 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
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Nuno,

> Source being available still means inspection is possible,
> whereas with closed source you really don't have much of an
> option other than blindly trust (although, yes, reverse
> engineering is possible).

So, in both cases inspection is /possible/ (1).

It doesn't mean that run-of-the-mill "compile me that, batman" users are 
capable to do either.  And don't forget the libraries that are often 
imported as binary blobs.

(1) Though I've dis-assembled enough programs to be aware that looking thru 
sourcecode is mostly a *lot* easier.

> You either trust the application or then you have to trust the OS to
> provide some sort of unhijackable interface for encrypted messaging,

Indeed.

Do I trust the Android messaging app ?  Whats the reason I should ?  I 
cannot inspect what it does, nor what it sends/receives (does it even 
actually encypt the message?), nor what happens in transit.  Thats not 
trust, that is having blind fate.

Also, you *start* with trusting the OS.  If you can't trust it than all your 
apps could be above board, but that would not mean a thing.

And whatdoyouknow, I'm not running Googles Android. <whistle>

> for example, if the system could have a messaging interface
> application, one or several messaging providers (SMS, E-mail,
> XMPP, ...) and a separate optional encryption layer.

Something like that, yes.

> (and herein lies a disadvantage, because not all media are equal,
> compare the SMS message length and text encoding needs with
> electronic mail, but OTOH we've had messaging apps supporting at
> least SMS and MMS).

Thats what status/error codes are for. :-)

> Another disadvantage, of course, is the SPOF which could then
> be attacked, by having e.g. manufacturers installing backdoored
> messaging systems...

Thats not "another disadvantage", that is what we started with.

The *advantage* of the latter is that its modulair, allowing for 
mix-and-match.  And as the complex stuff is in the modules, it would be a 
lot easier for a (hobby) programmer to write an UI or posibly a 
commandline-interface (batch anyone ? :-) ) for it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What’s the Difference? Kim JongUn <USAandNK@WorkersParty.org> - 2026-09-09 20:41 +0200
  Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What’s the Difference? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-09 21:34 +0200
  Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-09 22:22 +0200
    Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Kim JongUn <USAandNK@WorkersParty.org> - 2026-09-09 22:50 +0200
      Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-10 07:43 +0200
    Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Hermes <noreply@oc2mx.net> - 2026-09-11 17:30 +0000
      Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-11 20:07 +0200
        Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Hermes <noreply@oc2mx.net> - 2026-09-11 18:29 +0000
          Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-11 21:55 +0200
            Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Hermes <noreply@oc2mx.net> - 2026-09-11 20:32 +0000
              Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-12 08:22 +0200
            Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Librarian2025 <librarian2025@cock.li> - 2026-09-16 00:32 -0500
              Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-16 08:44 +0200
              Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Gab_Virebent <gabriel1@virebent.invalid> - 2026-09-16 09:28 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-16 15:45 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-16 18:57 +0100
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-16 21:40 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 00:46 +0100
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-17 09:38 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-17 10:32 +0100
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-17 19:12 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 11:16 +0100
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-18 15:03 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Librarian2025 <librarian2025@cock.li> - 2026-09-17 01:12 -0500
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-17 09:46 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Librarian2025 <librarian2025@cock.li> - 2026-09-17 13:54 -0500
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-17 22:11 +0200
        Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 20:31 +0200
          Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-11 22:16 +0200
            Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-11 22:44 +0200
              Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-12 08:42 +0200
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-12 10:46 +0100
                Re: Zero-Knowledge Encryption vs End-to-End Encryption: What's the Difference? "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2026-09-12 14:08 +0200

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