Re: c needs this sign

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: c needs this sign
Date	2026-09-09 13:21 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<117rffa$s9ir$6@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<117mfle$3aage$1@dont-email.me> <XnsB4C09C349E5C2hueydlltampabayrrcom@157.180.91.226> <117ng9q$2236i$2@dont-email.me> <117ohlt$3ui33$2@dont-email.me> <117r6it$3r5qn$5@dont-email.me>

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On 09/09/2026 10:49, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> On 2026-09-08 10:40, David Brown wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>> It is not always easy to tell with fir, but I believe he thought it 
>> was shocking that this symbol is not in Unicode.  I have no idea what 
>> this symbol is supposed to be, or where he has taken it from, or what 
>> he thinks it should mean.  But if it is not in Unicode, then that is a 
>> good indication that it would be a very poor choice for anything as it 
>> would be unfamiliar to everyone else.  And it would be impossible to 
>> type when coding.
> 
> I think that this is actually the crucial point; how to type Unicode
> symbols *efficiently* on a typical keyboard.
> 
> Concerning the "Colon equals" '≔' I mentioned, I mean, why not just
> use ':=' as usual. The Unicode symbol adds nothing and costs a lot!
> 
> Incidentally there were legacy keyboards that supported characters
> that we now typically find only in Unicode and some legacy languages
> even supported these.
> 
> I don't see a point in using non-portable or exotic characters that
> are not easy to handle.
> 

Yes.

At the very least, they should add something very significant to the 
language before using them.  People may want to use letters from their 
own language for identifiers, and that is not unreasonable (though it is 
a decision that may cause them complications later) since it adds to 
their own understanding, and is relatively easy to type on their own 
keyboards.  (Sometimes people have to switch keyboard layouts to do so.) 
  A Norwegian speaker will see "for", "før" and "fôr" as three very 
different words, and all are easy to type on a Norwegian layout 
keyboard.  So a Norwegian programmer might conceivably choose to use 
these Norwegian letters in their code.

So if you were making a language that was heavily oriented towards 
vectors and matrices, you /might/ feel it is worth having · and × as 
special symbols for distinguishing dot product and cross product.  But 
you would not want them for normal every-day usage in a general-purpose 
language.  And you would not, as you say, use a ≔ when := is clearer and 
easier to type.

And of course, easy to type varies by user.  I have immediate access to 
π, ÷, ², ≤ and many other symbols - people with other OS's or other 
keyboard layouts may not be so lucky.

Thread

c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-07 15:53 +0200
  Re: c needs this sign David LaRue <huey.dll@tampabay.rr.com> - 2026-09-07 19:21 +0000
    Re: c needs this sign Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-08 01:10 +0200
      Re: c needs this sign Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2026-09-07 23:13 +0000
        Re: c needs this sign Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-07 17:26 -0600
      Re: c needs this sign David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-08 10:40 +0200
        Re: c needs this sign Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 10:49 +0200
          Re: c needs this sign David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-09 13:21 +0200
            Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 13:33 +0200
            Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 21:37 +0200
              Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-10 09:01 +0200
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-10 23:13 +0200
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 14:54 -0700
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-10 22:17 +0000
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 15:48 -0700
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-11 10:51 +0100
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-11 12:49 +0200
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-11 16:28 +0000
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-11 02:03 +0200
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 17:13 -0700
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-11 02:24 +0200
                Re: Support of Unicode characters in various places (was Re: c needs this sign) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-09-11 09:42 +0200
          Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-09 23:59 +0200
            Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 00:04 +0200
              Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 00:16 +0200
                Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 00:30 +0200
              Re: c needs this sign bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-09 23:44 +0100
                Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 00:55 +0200
                Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 01:09 +0200
                Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 01:21 +0200
                Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 01:36 +0200
                Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 01:45 +0200
                Re: c needs this sign Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 07:23 +0000
      Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 11:56 +0200
        Re: c needs this sign bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-09-08 11:14 +0100
          Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 12:28 +0200
          Re: c needs this sign Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 03:54 -0700
            Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 13:13 +0200
            = vs. == (again!) (Was: c needs this sign) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-09-08 14:39 +0000
              Re: = vs. == (again!) (Was: c needs this sign) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-10-14 23:36 -0700
            Re: c needs this sign Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-09-09 11:13 +0200
          Re: c needs this sign Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-09 00:29 +0000
            Re: c needs this sign "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-09-10 13:42 -0700
      Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 15:12 +0200
  Re: c needs this sign Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-08 03:33 +0000
    Re: c needs this sign fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 12:02 +0200
      Re: c needs this sign Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-09 00:27 +0000

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