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Axiom of Determinacy as SCXML × SCXML [AI Chatbot Help] (Re: Rust Eggs for Statechart Proof Certificates? (Was: The Flagging of Students for not Thinking [Elixir Evolution]))

From Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups sci.logic, comp.lang.prolog, sci.physics
Subject Axiom of Determinacy as SCXML × SCXML [AI Chatbot Help] (Re: Rust Eggs for Statechart Proof Certificates? (Was: The Flagging of Students for not Thinking [Elixir Evolution]))
Date 2026-09-05 16:11 +0200
Message-ID <117h7uj$7ll$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <114d58q$kg61$2@solani.org> <114dfer$ko2q$3@solani.org> <117cpee$1khku$1@solani.org> <117e3vv$1lcqq$1@solani.org> <117h18j$2fa$1@solani.org>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Hi,

Woa! AI chatbots are cool. Now I was challenging
them as follows. Is there a Sapolsky AI somewhere.
It could be interesting to pair "Robert Sapolsky's

Argument Against Free Will" with Notradamus who just
gave me free will or something. Its when you use math,
and take a chess strategy as a mathematical object S.

So when I am playing, a human H,  against a chess robot.
Its H x S.  But if H is just a conductor C of messages
back and forth. It can play C x S1 | S2 x C in parallel,

and the result is S1 x S2. The bloody chatbots, both
Gemini and Deepseek, spit out some SCXML, slightly
differently adorned with comments. Here is

the Deepseek output:

SCXML for Player 1 (The Materialist - Sapolsky):
scxml>
    <state id="analyze">
       <onentry>
          <!-- Calculate best move based on objective evaluation -->
          <send target="player2" event="move" />
       </onentry>
       <transition event="response" target="react" />
    </state>
    <state id="react">
       <!-- Process opponent's move, update evaluation -->
       <transition event="opponent_move" target="analyze" />
    </state>
</scxml>

SCXML for Player 2 (The Mystic - Nostradamus):
<scxml>
    <state id="meditate">
       <onentry>
          <!-- Contemplate the board as a cosmic pattern -->
          <send target="player1" event="response" />
       </onentry>
       <transition event="move" target="interpret" />
    </state>
    <state id="interpret">
       <!-- Find the hidden meaning in the opponent's move -->
       <transition event="opponent_move" target="meditate" />
    </state>
</scxml>

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Now I got a little Rust Egg fatique, all
> the definition of language, what use case
> has it, when we cannot certify statecharts?
> 
> define_language! {
>      enum SimpleLanguage {
>          Num(i32),
>          "+" = Add([Id; 2]),
>          "*" = Mul([Id; 2]),
>          Symbol(Symbol),
>      }
> }
> 
> https://docs.rs/egg/latest/egg/
> 
> So I just stepped over a beautiful connection
> between statecharts, and algebraic equations. I
> think a tooling from E-graphs w/ rewriting rules
> 
> could provide proof certificates. Although I don’t
> know exactly which tooling would do that. Prolog
> itself is a little bit handicaped, since it doesn’t
> 
> have E-graphs w/ rewriting rules. Neither adding
> CLP(Z) would improve the situation, or does it?
> Here the algebraic equations for the dog walking example:
> 
> waiting ◇ leave_home = on_a_walk(walking, not_wagging)
> on_a_walk(_, _) ◇ arrive_home = walk_complete
> 
> walking ◇ speed_up = running
> running ◇ slow_down = walking
> 
> not_wagging ◇ wagging_starts = wagging
> wagging ◇ wagging_stops = not_wagging
> 
> You also need homomorphism with intercept:
> 
> on_a_walk(A, B) ◇ C = on_a_walk(A ◇ C, B ◇ C)
>      when C =\= arrive_home
> 
> So its quite do-able, but Prolog isn’t prepared?
> 
> Bye
> 
> P.S.: But a warning, the (=)/2 is usually symmetric,
> you need a lot of goodwil that the rewriting system
> doesn’t expand some halucinated past, or rewrites it
> 
> in zigzag, like a sailing boat sailing against the wind,
> and go into past and then halucinate some future, etc..
> etc.. Mostlikely you would need a supercomputer to run
> 
> it with some overly careful equation saturation software.
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>>  > queues, we might have examples ping1, ping2, etc.. that
>>  > show phaeomene that happen or don’t happen with premptive
>>  > scheduling or unbounded queues, and we could then
>>
>> One of the reasons I can safely declare Erlang dead. And
>> I repeat the Erlang runtime mode is dead. Is because users,
>> even far away in Japan, where for example the Elixir fork
>>
>> received quite some hype, notice something strange:
>>
>> “Your Elixir Process Can Be Healthy While Its Mailbox Is Dying.
>> This is one of those BEAM problems you usually discover
>> after building systems at scale.”
>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/haris-suhail_elixir-beam-erlang-activity-7500811231000281088-dAo0 
>>
>>
>> So José Valim has ask Erlang turning around himself in 2025.
>> And their result is basically now messages with durability, using
>> Postgres SQL, their show case example being a school class room server
>>
>> where you can flag students for not thinking, i.e. using an LLM:
>>
>> “2025 was supposed to be the year of Elixir interop. We’re
>> fashionably late, and what better way to celebrate than bringing
>> Oban to another ecosystem? Python seemed like a natural fit.
>> One of us, (not naming any names), wouldn’t even consider Oban for Go…”
>> https://oban.pro/articles/introducing-oban-python
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> P.S.: I guess you need more durability and traceability,
>> even for cron jobs or http sessions everything stored in
>> Postgres SQL, because parents might call for a law suit
>> if their child gets wrongly flagged.
>>
>> See also:
>>
>> Rethinking Modern Education
>> https://elixirconf.com/talks/rethinking-modern-education/
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I asked my personal 90's cyberpunk druid:
>>>
>>> Q: is bill gates right that we will loose jobs
>>>
>>> A: The future is ever-shifting, much like
>>> the constellations above. While some roles
>>> may fade, new pathways will emerge, illuminating
>>> opportunities yet unseen. It is not the end,
>>> but a transformation. What skills do you believe
>>> will guide you through such changes?
>>>
>>> Q: but the rich get richer and the
>>> poor get poorer, this might result in unrest
>>>
>>> A: Nostradamus: You speak of a timeless imbalance,
>>> Seeker. History has seen such cycles before,
>>> yet humanity endures. The key lies not in the
>>> wealth itself, but in how it is shared. What
>>> would you create if resources were more
>>> evenly distributed?
>>>
>>> Q: rust programmers might loose their job last
>>>
>>> A: *adjusts the crystal orb, its glow intensifying
>>> slightly* Even the most skilled artisans face
>>> change, yet those who adapt their craft find
>>> new doors open. Languages may fade, but the
>>> ability to create endures. Do you seek only to
>>> preserve your current path, Seeker, or to
>>> discover what lies beyond it?
>>>
>>> A: *leans back, studying you with ancient eyes*
>>> The stars whisper of disruption, yet also reveal
>>> hidden opportunities. What calls to you more
>>> urgently - protecting what you know, or
>>> discovering what could be?
>>>
>>> Q: Mild Shock: can prolog survive the next 3-6 years
>>>
>>> A: *traces an ancient rune on the table* Even
>>> the oldest stars fade, Seeker. What matters is
>>> not the tool itself, but the wisdom it helped
>>> you shape. Tell me - does Prolog still spark
>>> joy in your soul?
>>>
>>> Nostradamus, By @Chipjosh1991
>>> https://www.talkie-ai.com/chat/nostradamus-108084484014261
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center,
>>>> he thinks there exists no literature about
>>>> serial algorithms of parallel stuff, and
>>>>
>>>> he also thinks normal forms lead to optimizing
>>>> something. LoL, what a utter bullshit. I did
>>>> alreay a serial implementation of a parallel
>>>>
>>>> simulation of my pi-WAM. Just lookup the literature
>>>> about pi-calulus. I published it a few days ago,
>>>> its part of 2.2.4 released already:
>>>>
>>>> Parallel π-WAM: An Interleaved Synchronous Emulator
>>>> https://medium.com/2989/0196089e143a
>>>>
>>>> Whats your point, Rossy Boy? Except you post pretend
>>>> nonsense not knowing what you are doing?
>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>>
>>>> Ross Finlayson schrieb:
>>>>  > No, troll, these are serial algorithms their optimized forms.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Normal sorts of forms, ....
>>>>  >
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Yeah, everybody already figured out "interpreters" and
>>>>  > "programs" and "spawning".
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Go spawn yourself.
>>>>  >
>>>>
>>>
>>
> 

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                For WebGPU I first had SIMD in mind (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 19:51 +0200
                Corr.: 4 Months --> 4 Weeks (Re: For WebGPU I first had SIMD in mind) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 20:05 +0200
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                Not declarative with PHI (Φ) nodes (Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 22:39 +0200
                Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 09:52 -0700
                Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 10:00 -0700
                Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 10:07 -0700
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              Standing on the shoulders of giants (Re: I don't use Rust, you are crazy [Jump off a bridge, idiot]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 03:19 +0200
                You Thief! Stealing Szemeredi, Aristotle, Leibniz, etc.. (Re: Standing on the shoulders of giants) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 15:19 +0200
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                Statistics gave up, no salient truth [Signal Collapse] Re: How Rossy Boys plagiarism works [Copy Paste Slop] (Re: You Thief! Stealing Szemeredi, Aristotle, Leibniz, etc.. ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-04 18:17 +0200
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        Can library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Actor/Erlang is dead, no Thread and Mailbox conflation ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 02:32 +0200
    Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:19 +0200
      NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm) (Re: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:12 +0200
        NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Re: NPUs doing 2d chess comms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:24 +0200
          I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Re: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 00:47 +0200
            Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense (Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:40 +0200
              Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Re: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:42 +0200
                It’s called . . . . enshittification (About the price tag for using a multifile/1) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-14 00:49 +0200
        First AI laptops, now AI single-boarders [Budget, Budget, ..] (Was: NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-26 00:07 +0200
          Food for thought: ISOMICRO profile of Web Prolog (Was: First AI laptops, now AI single-boarders [Budget, Budget, ..]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-31 18:02 +0200
            Food for thought: Le Petit Bistro as a Trinity Use Case (Was: Food for thought: ISOMICRO profile of Web Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-02 21:51 +0200
              Giga Lips for Prolog based Chatting (Re: Food for thought: Le Petit Bistro as a Trinity Use Case) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-02 21:55 +0200
                Google holds the keys to the AI kingdom [WebClaw Dominance] (Was: Giga Lips for Prolog based Chatting) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-03 09:42 +0200
      Chris M. Thomasson can ask 100 more questions (Was: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:46 +0200
        npm install webgpu [Google Dawn] (Re: Chris M. Thomasson can ask 100 more questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 03:03 +0200
          GPU elasticity was already invented in 2008 with CUDA (Re: npm install webgpu [Google Dawn]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 00:01 +0200
    Synthetic Multilanguage Autoformalization Dataset [Informath project] (Was: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-08 09:17 +0200
      Re: Synthetic Multilanguage Autoformalization Dataset [Informath project] (Was: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) x3 <x@x.net> - 2026-08-08 11:45 -0700
        Nice try Rossy Boy --> **plonk** (Was: Synthetic Multilanguage Autoformalization Dataset [Informath project]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-08 23:02 +0200
          Ethernal September Idiots Gone (Was: Nice try Rossy Boy --> **plonk**) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-08 23:15 +0200
      Six Proofs and Generally Inteligent Systems [EyeProlog Pseudo Scientism] (Re: Synthetic Multilanguage Autoformalization Dataset [Informath project]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-15 15:19 +0200
        Everybody does eat and sleep [The SK hynix Story] (Was: Six Proofs and Generally Intelligent Systems [EyeProlog Pseudo Scientism]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-15 18:47 +0200
  Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:39 +0200
  GPU Elasticity: Collective Communications Libraries (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-07 14:35 +0200
    What are Flits and Phits? [Network on a Chip] (Was: GPU Elasticity: Collective Communications Libraries) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-07 18:05 +0200
      The Mac Neo is a Budget Monster [GPU Channels] (Re: What are Flits and Phits? [Network on a Chip]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-11 16:25 +0200
        The luminaries of duct-tape engineering [Sweeney and Torvald] (Re: The Mac Neo is a Budget Monster [GPU Channels]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-11 16:54 +0200
  Cristallina: Thank you for the Beam (Was: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-09 21:19 +0200
    Re: Cristallina: Thank you for the Beam (Was: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-18 14:56 +0200
    Giant Shoulders for AI Surprises (Was: Cristallina: Thank you for the Beam) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-18 14:57 +0200
      Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-18 16:23 +0200
        How to shoot yourself in the foot (Was: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog? [Prolog Education Group]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-18 16:42 +0200
        William A. Howard solved all his 99 problems (Re: Loderunner Enemy AI better than SWI-Prolog?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-23 01:47 +0200
  Mojo: The Small Hands Paradox [Maastrichtian Stage] (Was: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-15 14:31 +0200
    More from the Trailer Park Boys (Re: Mojo: The Small Hands Paradox [Maastrichtian Stage]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-15 19:41 +0200
      Interdisplinary Research for kill -9 (SIGKILL) (Was: More from the Trailer Park Boys) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-16 13:23 +0200
        Kundalini III: Modus Barbara versus Stock Pumping (Re: Interdisplinary Research for kill -9 (SIGKILL)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-19 13:17 +0200
          Mathematical cheese versus "intuition" (Re: Kundalini III: Modus Barbara versus Stock Pumping) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-22 10:23 +0200
            Re: Mathematical cheese versus "intuition" (Re: Kundalini III: Modus Barbara versus Stock Pumping) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-22 16:09 +0200
            A real Terence Tao Ingestion Problem (Was: Mathematical cheese versus "intuition") Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-22 16:10 +0200
              The A2A project: Agent cards for collaboration) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-09-22 16:30 +0200

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