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The Pixel Phone AI Experiment Song (Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions])

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Hi,

For graphics, rendering, in the worst case your
FPS can go down. Then you have a 2x as performant
graphic card, and sundently the FPS is ok again!

Or you render into a smaller screen, with less
number of pixels, and things turn good again.
So for my pixel phone AI experiment, or what I

will toy around on a AI laptop, I am singing:

   I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner
   I spin on CAS loops for my dinner
   Some call it busy-wait, I call it fate
   When the queue is empty, I just rotate

Bye

Whats better Steve Miller or Muddy Waters?

The Joker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV3AziKTBUo

Hoochie Coochie Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_l6A7krjrQ

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Is a trivial control construct for(),
> when used in a compute shader with
> NVIDIA Volta evolution, i.e. MIMD,
> 
> can lead to different time spend by
> individual compute shaders:
> 
> fn main(global_id : i32) {
>     i : i32 = 0;
>     while (i < globa_id) {
>        i++;
>     }
> }
> 
> You can visiualize as the time spent
> by each logical thread as follows:
> 
> global id, logical thread life line
> 1     [    ]
> 2     [        ]
> 3     [            ]
> 4     [                ]
> 5     [                    ]
> Etc..
> 
> With work items and load balancing you
> could run the above with a lower number
> of logical threads, I am writing the
> 
> work item number now inside the sub life
> line inside the overall life line of
> the logical thread:
> 
> worker , worker work items
> A     [3           ]
> B     [4               ][2       ]
> C     [5                   ][1   ]
> 
> The overall time slightly increased by 1,
> i.e. the case global_id = k combined
> with the case global_id = n-k+1 . Also
> 
> one worker didn't have two work items,
> only one work item. But the number of
> logical threads needed was halfed.
> 
> Ok, a mpmc queue will be not that
> intelligent, concerning the work sheduling.
> But one could experiment with mpmc queue
> 
> priority queues etc.. etc..
> 
> Have Fun!
> 
> Bye
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Because I use WebGPU and not WebGL. And
>> because WebGPU can adresss modern GPU
>> developed with the NVIDIA Volta evolution,
>>
>> which happened in 2017. Namley that compute
>> shaders are not any more subject to the
>> realization restriction of lock step
>>
>> execution, but have independent thread state.
>> And because there is independent thread state
>> there is also independent time spent for a
>>
>> a work item by each logical thread, if the
>> submitted logical thread uses a lot of branching
>> logic or even loops. But the use of branching
>>
>> and loops is encouraged in independent thread
>> state programming of compute shaders. The variables
>> that can drive such logic are the scalar variables:
>>
>> Tour of WGSL - Control Flow
>> https://google.github.io/tour-of-wgsl/control-flow/
>>
>> Then not to waste GPU compute time, by logical
>> threads doing nothing. You will need to
>> introduce some load balancing among multiple
>>
>> logical threads. And MPMC queues are one way to
>> readize load balancing. Compute shaders with
>> producer and consumer entry points are proposed
>>
>> as fundamental architecture by Thunder Kittens:
>>
>> ThunderKittens: Simple, Fast, and Adorable AI Kernels
>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.20399
>>
>> They are used by this SpaceX acquisition:
>>
>> Composer 2 Technical Report
>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2603.24477
>>
>> Thunder Kittens uses Hardware support, i.e. tma_expect().
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Chris M. Thomasson schrieb:
>>  >> never meant to be used in a GPU.
>>  >> Dmitry CAS version can be used, but
>>  >>
>>  >> Why do you even need a mpmc queue
>>  >> in your compute shader anyway?
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This is quite fun, how some TLA+ guy fears
>>> the full state of queue like the devil in
>>> itself. But I guess if a service rate is
>>>
>>> low and the producer has not much to do to
>>> produce its work items, the arrival rate
>>> has nevertheless to adapt, and dealing
>>>
>>> with "full states", which are wrongly
>>> called deadlock here, is the normal:
>>>
>>> Tutorial-style talk - BlockingQueue
>>> https://github.com/lemmy/BlockingQueue/tree/main
>>>
>>> Prolog is in good position. The bird box
>>> model has a redo port. So sometimes switching
>>> from push to pull, can help without doing
>>>
>>> Deadlock Exorcism. You can also translate
>>> the bird box ports into pi-calculus:
>>>
>>> A pi-calculus Specification of Prolog
>>> Benjamin Z. Li - University of Pennsylvania
>>> 11 Apr 1994, European Symposium on Programming,
>>> Prolog, Unification, Backtracking
>>> https://scispace.com/pdf/a-pi-calculus-specification-of-prolog-3qf2pf04ud.pdf 
>>>
>>>
>>> Have Fun!
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Remember when first all local AI was Python
>>>> and PyTorch APIs. And then suddently people started
>>>> using bare metal C/C++ Code. Here is the story:
>>>>
>>>> How it started:
>>>>
>>>> GPT-J or GPT-J-6B is an open-source large
>>>> language model (LLM) developed by EleutherAI
>>>> in 2021. As the name suggests, it is a
>>>> generative pre-trained transformer model
>>>> designed to produce human-like text that
>>>> continues from a prompt.
>>>> https://www.eleuther.ai/
>>>>
>>>> How it was going [Georgi Gerganov]:
>>>>
>>>> So a few days later comes out the LLaMA, I do
>>>> some calculations and I figure out “Okay, 65
>>>> billion parameters. You probably need about
>>>> 40 gigs of RAM, with 4-bit quantization. So
>>>> this can run on a MacBook. Why not do it?”
>>>>
>>>> Why I was able to do it so quickly - basically,
>>>> for all that I saw it’s pretty much GPT-J architecture
>>>> with some modifications, like some extra memorization
>>>> layers. It’s minor changes. Basically, again, the
>>>> existing code for the GPT-J, I just simply
>>>> modified it there, it happened pretty quickly.
>>>> https://changelog.com/podcast/532
>>>>
>>>> Georgi Gerganov, Bulgarian, now with Hugging
>>>> Face, ggml-cann also running on Chinese AI chips.
>>>> ggml Manifesto https://github.com/ggml-org/ggml
>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>
>>
> 

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The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 21:01 +0200
  Deadlock Exorcism: Switch from Push to Pull [A pi-calculus Specification of Prolog] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 00:25 +0200
    Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re: Deadlock Exorcism: Switch from Push to Pull) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 08:45 +0200
      Trivial balancing example for (int i=0; i<global_id; i++) (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 08:55 +0200
        The Pixel Phone AI Experiment Song (Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 09:19 +0200
          Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions] (Re: The Pixel Phone AI Experiment Song (Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 09:23 +0200
      And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 01:25 +0200
        Why forget something, that was never on my mind (Re: And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:49 +0200
  Potential Python Recovery: Free Threading [3.13 release] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 10:21 +0200
  The things XILINX braught to the AMD table (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 18:48 +0200
    NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling] (Re: The things XILINX braught to the AMD table) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 19:13 +0200
      Micro penis mother sung arias (Re: NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 14:40 +0200
        Micro penis brain is in constant hiatus (Re: Micro penis mother sung arias) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 15:27 +0200
          Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care [(Re: Micro penis brain is in constant hiatus (Re: Micro penis mother sung arias) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 15:35 +0200
            You are a moron, brainless putin payed (Re: Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 18:01 +0200
              Yeah keep reading my posts, uninspired fool (Re: You are a moron, brainless putin payed) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 19:47 +0200
            Out of the blue accusation span 15 days [Empirical USENET study] (Re: Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:27 +0200
  Little Data Center on Your Palm [AI Laptops for 500 USD] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 17:59 +0200
    2008: 4 Blades + Tesla S1070 versus 2026: 1 AI Laptop (Re: Little Data Center on Your Palm [AI Laptops for 500 USD]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 18:15 +0200
  Hurry the blue bus doesnt stop indefinitely (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:37 +0200
    Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta (Re: Hurry the blue bus doesnt stop indefinitely) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:58 +0200
      Could take 3-4 months find machine / browser (Re: Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 21:16 +0200

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