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Groups > comp.theory > #142819

Re: Olcott's system

From olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory, sci.logic, sci.math
Subject Re: Olcott's system
Date 2026-07-13 10:31 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <11330d7$3mn7p$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <112vi73$2lrbi$3@dont-email.me> <11307hu$2sh45$1@dont-email.me> <11308du$akt$1@news.muc.de> <11323ob$3dn13$1@dont-email.me> <1132qh1$2rjc$1@news.muc.de>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 7/13/2026 8:51 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> wrote:
>> On 12/07/2026 17:30, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> [ Followup-To: set ]
> 
>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 7/12/2026 3:11 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> If I am correct Olcott wants to build a system such that it will
>>>>> convince everybody of the truth. E.g. he thinks that he will be able to
>>>>> prove that the 'Trump sentence'" 'Trump lost the elections in 2020
>>>>> because of fraud' is not true.
> 
>>>>> A few questions:
> 
>>>>> 1) How many petabytes of basic-facts and rules does he need to construct
>>>>> his proof?
> 
>>>>> 2) Given that even after 20 years he did not convince anyone about the
>>>>> correctness of one 'basic fact', how many peta-years do you think he
>>>>> needs to convince a believer of the Trump sentence that all his basic
>>>>> facts and rules are correct?
> 
>>>>> 3) How is Olcott going to prove that his system is correct? His system
>>>>> is not able to prove its own correctness, because of a self-reference.
> 
>>>> This aspect can be implemented manually by carefully
>>>> searching for the answer to this one question:
> 
>>>> Was there any actual evidence of election fraud
>>>> that could have possibly change the outcome of
>>>> the 2020 presidential election?
> 
>>> No, you've completely missed the point of Fred's question.  His question
>>> wasn't about the 2020 USA election; that was just used as an example.
>>> Fred's question was about how are you going to prove your ENTIRE SYSTEM
>>> is correct?
> 
>> The system needn't be proven to be correct as long as there are
>> sufficient disclaimers about safety critical questions including
>> medical and legal topics and that the sevice provider's responsibility
>> is limited to the amount paid fore the service. With sufficient
>> disclaimers one only needs to wait unti someone finds evidence that
>> the system is incorrect.
> 
> That is not the "system" that PO is purporting to be envisaging/building.
> He is writing about his "system" delivering absolute proven truth.  I
> think he is the only poster with any belief that this is even remotely
> possible.
> 

Comenius language
Once one assumes that the massive task of writing
down the complete set of atomic facts of general
knowledge has already been accomplished then the
table has been built so that truth can just be looked up.

> What you have just described is more or less what we have at the moment.
> Yes I accept the irony.
> 
>> -- 
>> Mikko
> 


-- 
Copyright 2026 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of general knowledge.
The complete structure of this system is now defined.

The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
(a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

(b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).

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Thread

Olcott's system "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2026-07-12 10:11 +0200
  Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 09:15 -0500
    Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-12 14:30 +0000
      Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 11:13 -0500
        Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-12 16:48 +0000
          Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 11:56 -0500
            Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-13 10:38 +0300
              Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 11:28 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 12:19 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 11:25 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-15 11:01 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 12:24 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-15 13:32 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 15:34 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-15 18:10 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-17 12:48 +0100
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:18 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:13 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 15:28 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:05 +0300
      Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-13 10:22 +0300
        Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 13:51 +0000
          Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 10:31 -0500
            Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 16:22 +0000
              Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 11:37 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 20:17 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:33 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 15:48 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 21:09 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 18:01 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 12:07 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 12:33 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:39 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 16:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 15:38 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 17:49 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 17:29 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 19:38 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 19:03 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 21:12 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 13:03 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 15:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 20:18 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system (not Hobbes) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:42 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 21:27 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 23:43 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-13 16:03 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 18:05 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 11:51 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:35 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 10:41 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:34 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 12:34 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-17 20:10 +0100
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 12:19 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:45 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 10:43 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:35 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:45 +0300
              Re: Olcott's system Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-17 08:44 +0100
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-17 12:43 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-17 11:55 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-21 15:02 +0100
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-21 16:36 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-22 11:10 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-22 19:20 +0100
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-22 13:43 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-22 21:31 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-24 11:42 +0100
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-24 12:24 +0000
            Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:30 +0300
          Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 11:19 +0300
            Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 12:30 +0000
              Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 10:54 +0300
            Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:26 -0500
              Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:06 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:47 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 10:49 +0300
      Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-18 00:41 -0700
    Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 10:38 -0600
      Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 11:51 -0500
        Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 11:29 -0600
          Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 13:00 -0500
            Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 12:49 -0600
              Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 13:57 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:02 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:04 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 14:29 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:31 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 14:46 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:51 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:04 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:06 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:34 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 14:15 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-13 11:08 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 11:33 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 16:43 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 11:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 17:14 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 12:20 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-13 20:24 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 17:49 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 12:48 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 12:41 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 19:39 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:59 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 20:12 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 15:33 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-14 20:48 +0000
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 16:04 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 11:07 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:22 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:11 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:52 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 15:59 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:10 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 10:59 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:19 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:16 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 10:54 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:13 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 15:36 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:45 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 10:57 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-14 14:16 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:24 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 11:00 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:25 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 13:50 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:08 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:31 +0300
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 13:25 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:02 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:04 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:15 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:27 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:03 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:21 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:27 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:40 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:57 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:15 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 18:28 -0400
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 15:38 -0600
                Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 16:44 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 15:56 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 17:10 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 16:31 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 18:33 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 18:32 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 19:53 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 21:00 -0400
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 20:18 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 21:19 -0400
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 20:23 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 21:26 -0400
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 20:28 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:49 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 10:34 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-13 10:47 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 12:00 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-13 11:49 -0600
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 12:55 -0500
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-14 12:27 +0300
                Re: Totally clueless about inductive inference? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:56 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-12 14:34 -0600
                Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 15:49 -0500
                Re: Olcott's system "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 13:52 -0700
                Re: Olcott's system Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-15 11:30 +0300
                Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 11:07 -0500
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-15 16:50 +0000
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 12:19 -0500
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-15 17:54 +0000
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-15 13:05 -0500
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-18 11:32 +0100
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:52 +0300
                Re: Terribly evil lies that kill all life on Earth Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-16 11:45 +0300
  Re: Olcott's system olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-12 11:23 -0500
    Re: Olcott's system inconsistent "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2026-07-13 08:24 +0200
      Re: Olcott's system inconsistent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-13 10:35 -0500
        Re: Olcott's system inconsistent "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2026-07-22 10:31 +0200

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