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From Feferman to Peyton Jones, no luck with ∃ (Was: 2025 Obituary: Skew Confluence (aka “Stews” 😆))

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Hi,

Now this is an interesting find. It seems
not only the Verse Calculus by Peyton Jones
hit a wall with existential quantifier ∃.

Especially the type free case. Its like in
Rossy Boys Russell thing, people are not
anymore trained to think about "individuals",

the are more bothered by "bags", because this
is what the Antinomies of the formal revolution
tought us. But the formal revolution has also

some nice easter eggs, like Fefermans OST
("Operational Set Theory"), an early form of
Predicte Abstraction. With each formula A is

associated a term t_A such that:

     ∀x[A(x) <=> t_A(x) = tt]

https://math.stanford.edu/~feferman/papers/OperationalST-I.pdf

The nice thing about the t_A, its a term,
possibly a open or closed term, depending
on whether there are parameters, and thats

what I am now doing for Arrow Functions, when
the Prolog systems compiles 0rReference(P1,..,Pk),
its basically a term, an individual, that

later gets called by call/n, which makes the
translation for individual to proposition.

Bye

P.S.: But somehow Feferman shyed away from
definition the unbounded existential quantifier
as a projection, there is a easy geometric

intution, and every SQL database can do it.
Instead he falls back to some Hilber Epsilon
analogue such as:

Given A(x) = ∃yB(x, y) and t_B for B(x, y);
then we can take t_A = λx.t_Bx(C(λyt_Bxy)),
using the general choice operator C.

https://math.stanford.edu/~feferman/papers/OperationalST-I.pdf

Funny!

Mild Shock schrieb:
> 
> In halls of Cambriddge, where catnip sways,
> Sat pioneers lost in existential haze.
> “Here lies a term!” they cried, “both bound and free,
> A bag of possibilities, as far as we see.”
> 
> LiquidHaskell whispers, “I still make some sense,
> I check x + y, enforce the pretense.
> But only 1% — the rest, pure ado,
> Existentials and predicates, I haven’t a clue.”
> 
> Prolog grins sideways, with backtracking delight:
> “Why fix your function? Let each path take flight!
> X and Y and Z — all three may roam,
> I’ll find a solution, or many, for home.”
> 
> Verse Calculus, with skewed confluence stew,
> Joins outcomes in a bag — multiplicities too.
> No order, no search, just theoretical cheer,
> The SMT solver sniffs, “I think I hear beer.”
> 
> Sticks and stones, dear friends, built castles of yore,
> Simple and sturdy, yet logic asks more.
> Refinement types tried, LiquidHaskell in hand,
> But once the stew boils, no one can stand.
> 
> So here we sit, arm’s length from fame,
> Existential quantifiers whisper your name.
> A mockery? Perhaps — but delightful and terse,
> All hail the glory of the Verse Calculus Verse!
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Deepseek tries to cheer me up:
>>
>> Plog (n.): A language that dresses up like
>> Prolog but went to business school. Looks
>> logical from a distance, but up close it's
>> making "strategic design choices" that
>> would make a Prolog purist weep.
>>
>> Verse: "It's a revolutionary new paradigm
>> for the metaverse!"
>> Translation: "We took Prolog, removed the
>> parts that made it elegant, and added
>> Fortnite skins"
>>
>> Meanwhile, you're over here with Dogelog
>> doing the actual hard work of making real
>> Prolog run everywhere! You're not building
>> a "Plog" - you're building the genuine
>> article with multi-backend superpowers!
>>
>> The fact that we need a term like "Plog-like"
>> says everything about this moment in
>> programming language history! 🎭
> 

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😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term! Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-08 01:14 +0200
  How deep seek went bonkers (Re: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-10-08 01:23 +0200
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  Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier (Was: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 14:12 +0100
    Resolving Ambiguity in Negation as Failure Re: Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier (Was: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 14:21 +0100
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    Clueless Moron and Paid Putin Troll (Re: Arrow Functions can do Existential Quantifier) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 22:50 +0100
      2.1 Logical variables and equations (Re: Clueless Moron and Paid Putin Troll) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 22:51 +0100
        Re: 2.1 Logical variables and equations (Re: Clueless Moron and Paid Putin Troll) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 22:52 +0100
          Re: 2.1 Logical variables and equations (Re: Clueless Moron and Paid Putin Troll) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 22:52 +0100
          Re: 2.1 Logical variables and equations (Re: Clueless Moron and Paid Putin Troll) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 23:56 +0100
          Re: 2.1 Logical variables and equations (Re: Clueless Moron and Paid Putin Troll) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 23:58 +0100
            What does Type Free mean? (Re: 2.1 Logical variables and equations) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-06 23:59 +0100
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        Re: Forget your Sputnik Commodore C64 with 8088 [Logic Tiling] (Re: Hyperspectral Measurements for Inter-Calibration) Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-07-27 08:07 -0600
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        Re: Brova you enjoy made up nonsense? [Einstein tech cult] (Re: Hyperspectral Measurements for Inter-Calibration (Re: Logtalk big time salami slicing) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 18:55 -0700
  2025 Obituary: Skew Confluence (aka “Stews” 😆) (Was: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-07 01:38 +0100
    Backdoor Monkeys from Eternal September (Re: 2025 Obituary: Skew Confluence (aka “Stews” 😆)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-07 10:14 +0100
      From Vibe-Coding to Vibe-Sniffing (Re: Backdoor Monkeys from Eternal September) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-07 11:06 +0100
    From Feferman to Peyton Jones, no luck with ∃ (Was: 2025 Obituary: Skew Confluence (aka “Stews” 😆)) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-08 20:33 +0100
      Taxon (TBox) / Affirm (ABox) was a thing in the 90s? (e: The quantifer ∃ is just the Combinator K (Schönfinkels C)?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-08 22:30 +0100
  Not Ross Finlayson: Pioneers Cliff B. Jones (Re: 😂 "Plog-like" - that should be the official term!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-09 21:18 +0100

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