Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.theory > #135060

Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence

From olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence
Date 2025-11-05 05:52 -0600
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10efdqa$c4n4$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (25 earlier) <10e7jpl$23jkb$1@dont-email.me> <10ebern$38k94$1@dont-email.me> <10ecik1$3i3eb$1@dont-email.me> <10edf9g$3r2m1$1@dont-email.me> <10efa37$ashj$2@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw


On 11/5/2025 4:49 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2025-11-04 18:05:34 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 11/4/2025 3:56 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2025-11-03 23:45:57 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 11/2/2025 6:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-11-01 13:54:09 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/1/2025 4:18 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-10-31 12:20:13 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/31/2025 6:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-30 13:03:23 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/30/2025 5:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-29 16:25:00 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/2025 5:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-28 15:12:29 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2025 4:58 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-28 01:22:21 +0000, Richard Damon said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/27/25 5:45 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-26 17:57:16 +0000, Richard Damon said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/26/25 7:44 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-25 19:57:19 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/25/2025 6:59 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-24 17:37:43 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/24/2025 2:46 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-23 15:39:13 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/23/2025 5:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-22 12:39:31 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/22/2025 4:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-21 15:11:19 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/21/2025 4:31 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-20 16:24:46 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2025 3:55 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-19 15:03:34 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/19/2025 3:44 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2025-10-18 10:58:15 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/18/2025 4:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not a sense of "proof".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the correct way to do a proof.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A way to do is not a sense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The conventional way to do proofs 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concludes that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within its rules if the Moon is made 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from green
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheese and the Moon is not made from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> green cheese
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this proves that Donald Trump is the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, and the empirical falct that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody has verified all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. the Moon is made from green cheese
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. the Moon is not made from grenn cheese
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Donald Trump is not the Lord and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saviour Jesus Christ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the same time supports the idea that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the conventiona wya to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do proofs is correct and trustworthy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When we require that correct reasoning is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only semantic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logical entailment from basic facts the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Principle of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Explosion ceases to exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only if you exclude from "correct 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasioning" some reasning that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually is correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no counter-example that can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly exist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can show there are any gaps in the body 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of human
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge that can be expressed in language 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that begins
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a consistent set of basic facts and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only applies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantic logical entailment to these facts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no language that begins with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consistent set of basic facts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and only applies semantic logical entailment 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to those facts and can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> express all of human knowledge without any gaps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A subset of formalized English does do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody has ever presented such subset.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ChatGPT rewords my words into that subset.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your words have much less material than all human 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any gaps. Therefore it is impossible to verify 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have told
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every necessary word to it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Categorically exhaustive reasoning reverse-engineers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the required architecture of the system. Wittgenstein
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did this on Gödel https://www.liarparadox.org/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wittgenstein.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and he was so succinct eliminate the convoluted 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mess of Gödel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers that people mistook his succinct analysis 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as simplistic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not understanding what Gödel was really saying.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, an expectable consequence of ignoring 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> essential aspects is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not understanding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gödel numbers are merely the ridiculously convoluted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way that Gödel added the functionality of this simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator: ⊢ to a formal language woefully too 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inexpressive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Natural numbers are one of the best understood topics 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of mathematics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore restricting the assumptions to natural 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers provdes the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basis for the most interesting result.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course one can ask whether one can prove a similar 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theorem about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite strings. It is much simpler to express claims 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and proofs as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fimite strings as thats how they are usually 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed anyway. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that requires that one first constructs a theory of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite strings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But we can show a direct one-to-one mapping of finite 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strings in a finite alphabet to natural numbers (it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just becomes the notational base for the numbers).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's true, and I would prefer that rather than 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gödel's mapping. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof of Gödel's theorem is simpler if the number 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of symbols in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the alphabet is prime even if that would mean that some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the symbols
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are unused.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Godel's Theorem doesn't need the number of symbols to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prime, it uses prime numbers to number the symbols, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prime powers for the position.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And consequently Gödel's example of an undecidable 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> formula is more complex
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than needed. Which doesn't really matter as the complex 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> details can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden behind definitions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...We are therefore confronted with a proposition which 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asserts its own unprovability. 15 ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Gödel 1931:40-41)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G := (F ⊬ G) // Olcott's Minimal Type Theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://philarchive.org/archive/PETMTT-4v2 // YACC BNF of MTT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?- G = not(provable(F, G)).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G = not(provable(F, G)).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?- unify_with_occurs_check(G, not(provable(F, G))).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> false.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gödel, Kurt 1931.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Formally Undecidable Propositions of Principia 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mathematica And Related Systems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nice to see that you don't disagree.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words you agree that I proved 1931 Incompleteness 
>>>>>>>>>>>> is incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gödel's G when boiled down to its barest essence is simply 
>>>>>>>>>>>> semantically
>>>>>>>>>>>> unsound the same way the Liar Paradox is unsound.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As yousually your "in other words" is a lie. Existence of a 
>>>>>>>>>>> simpler proof
>>>>>>>>>>> does not make the original one incorrect.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My words are true within your words:
>>>>>>>>>>    "Nice to see that you don't disagree."
>>>>>>>>>> If you didn't mean that then you should not have said that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did not say nor mean "you did not disagree with anything". 
>>>>>>>>> The usual
>>>>>>>>> meaning of what I said is that you don't disagree with what I 
>>>>>>>>> said in
>>>>>>>>> my previous message about the complexity of Gödel's sentence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The complexity of Gödel's sentence is nuts.
>>>>>>>> G := (F ⊬ G) Just detect the cycle in this
>>>>>>>> and Gödel is refuted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nice to see that you still don't disagree with my comment about the
>>>>>>> complexity of Gödel's sentence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet I absolutely do disagree.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, you think Gödel's numbering scheme is simple.
>>>>
>>>> ...We are therefore confronted with a proposition which asserts its 
>>>> own unprovability. 15 ... (Gödel 1931:40-41)
>>>>
>>>> It totally hides the details that proof his theorem is unsound.
>>>
>>> You have never revealed any unsound detail of the proof, not even
>>> whether it uses a false premise or an invalid inference.
>>
>> The details of the proof that use Gödel numbers as their
>> primary basis hide the underlying semantics about exactly
>> what unprovable in F actually means.
> 
> No, they don't. That is very clearly expressed.
> 

They don't answer the question why and how is G unprovable in F
their answer is that there is some number that some how says so.

...We are therefore confronted with a proposition which asserts its own 
unprovability. 15 ... (Gödel 1931:40-41)

Gödel, Kurt 1931.
On Formally Undecidable Propositions of Principia Mathematica And 
Related Systems

G := (F ⊬ G) is unprovable in F because it has a cycle in
the directed graph of its evaluation sequence. This is the
same thing as a infinite loop in a program that is supposed
to produce a result.


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

Back to comp.theory | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

The halting problem breaks with reality olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-13 19:37 -0500
  Re: The halting problem breaks with reality dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-13 19:21 -0700
    Re: The halting problem breaks with reality olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-13 21:26 -0500
      Re: The halting problem breaks with reality dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-13 19:31 -0700
        Re: The halting problem breaks with reality olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-13 21:48 -0500
          Re: The halting problem breaks with reality dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-13 19:55 -0700
            Re: The halting problem breaks with reality olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-13 22:02 -0500
              Re: The halting problem breaks with reality dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-13 20:10 -0700
                Re: The halting problem breaks with reality olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-13 22:17 -0500
                Re: The halting problem breaks with reality dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-13 20:54 -0700
                Re: The halting problem breaks with reality olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-13 23:37 -0500
                Re: The halting problem breaks with reality dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-13 22:45 -0700
                Re: The halting problem breaks with reality dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-13 22:52 -0700
          Re: The halting problem breaks with reality Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-14 18:12 +0000
  Re: The halting problem breaks with reality Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-14 12:53 +0300
    Re: The halting problem breaks with reality --- confirmed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-14 11:29 -0500
      Re: The halting problem breaks with reality --- confirmed Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-15 11:49 +0300
        Re: The halting problem breaks with reality --- confirmed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-15 07:21 -0500
          Re: The halting problem breaks with reality --- confirmed Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-16 11:38 +0300
            The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-16 08:57 -0500
              Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-16 14:07 -0700
              Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-17 11:32 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-17 10:06 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-18 12:30 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-18 05:58 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-19 11:44 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-19 10:03 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-19 12:55 -0700
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-20 11:55 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 11:24 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-21 12:31 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 10:11 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 13:38 -0700
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-21 22:13 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 20:46 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-22 12:23 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 07:39 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-23 13:02 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 10:39 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 11:57 -0700
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-24 10:48 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 12:41 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-25 14:57 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 14:53 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 13:03 -0700
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-26 13:34 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 11:24 -0700
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-24 10:46 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 12:37 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-25 14:59 +0300
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 14:57 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-25 21:27 -0400
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-26 13:44 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-26 13:57 -0400
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-27 11:45 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 08:56 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 17:15 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 12:22 -0500
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 18:54 +0000
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-27 21:26 -0400
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-28 11:54 +0200
                Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 10:07 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-28 21:57 -0400
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-29 12:43 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 11:22 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 12:47 -0700
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-30 12:37 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 07:54 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-31 13:02 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:09 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-01 11:10 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:50 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-02 14:41 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 17:40 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-04 00:29 +0000
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 18:32 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 01:59 +0000
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-04 11:51 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 11:45 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-05 12:46 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 05:55 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-06 10:35 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 05:03 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-07 10:14 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-07 07:00 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-08 10:34 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-08 07:47 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-09 12:19 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-04 11:46 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 10:29 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-05 12:47 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-27 21:22 -0400
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-28 11:58 +0200
                Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 10:12 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-28 21:57 -0400
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-29 12:53 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 11:26 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-29 21:46 -0400
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-30 12:44 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 08:01 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-31 13:10 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:18 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-01 11:16 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:52 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-02 14:43 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 17:41 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-04 11:53 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-29 12:45 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 11:25 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 12:46 -0700
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-30 12:50 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 08:03 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-31 13:15 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:20 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-01 11:18 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:54 -0500
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-02 14:45 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 17:45 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-04 11:56 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 12:05 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-05 12:49 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 05:52 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-06 10:39 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 05:08 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-07 10:21 +0200
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-07 07:31 -0600
                Re: Gödel's G := (F ⊬ G) specifies a cycle in the directed graph of its evaluation sequence Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-08 10:37 +0200
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-28 21:57 -0400
                Re: The Halting Problem is Incoherent Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-29 12:56 +0200
  Re: The halting problem breaks with reality Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-14 18:09 +0000
  Re: The halting problem breaks with reality Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-17 12:13 -0400

csiph-web