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Groups > comp.lang.c > #394997
| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: New and improved version of cdecl |
| Date | 2025-10-31 04:37 +0000 |
| Organization | To protect and to server |
| Message-ID | <10e1eep$8l0o$1@paganini.bofh.team> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <10dl0g9$3venf$1@dont-email.me> <10dmk77$egg1$1@dont-email.me> <10dnprf$qmrg$1@dont-email.me> <10dnsm7$rjo7$1@dont-email.me> <10do23k$u17l$1@dont-email.me> |
bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 27/10/2025 13:39, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> On 27.10.2025 13:50, bart wrote:
>>> On 27/10/2025 02:08, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>>>> On 26.10.2025 12:26, bart wrote:
>
>> Speed is not an end in itself. It must be valued in comparison with
>> all the other often more relevant factors (that you seem to completely
>> miss, even when explained to you).
> Speed seems to be important enough that huge efforts have gone into
> creating the best optimising compilers over decades.
>
> Fantastically complex products like LLVM exist, which take 100 times
> longer to compile code than a naive compiler, in order to eke out the
> last bit of performance.
>
> Similarly, massive investment has gone into making dynamic languages
> fast, like the state-of-the-art products used in running JavaScript, or
> the numerous JIT approaches used to accelerate languages like Python and
> Ruby.
>
> Build-speed is taken seriously enough, and most 'serious' compilers are
> slow enough, that complex build systems exist, which use dependencies in
> order to avoid compilation as much as possible.
>
> Or failing that, by parallelising builds across multiple cores, possibly
> even across distributed machines.
>
> So, fortunately some people take this stuff more seriously than you do.
>
> I am also involved in this field, and my experimental work takes the
> approach of simplicity to achieve results.
>
>
>>
>> I know your goals are space and speed. And that's fine in principle
>> (unless you're ignoring other relevant factors).
>
> LLVM is a backend project which is massively bigger, more complex and
> slower (in build speed) than my stuff, by a number of magnitudes in each
> case.
>
> The resulting code however, might only be a fraction of a magnitude
> faster (for example the 0.3 vs 0.4 timings above, achieved via gcc, but
> LLVM would be similar).
>
> And that's if you apply the optimiser, which I would only use for
> production builds, or for benchmarking. Otherwise its code is just as
> poor as mine, or worse, but it still takes longer to build stuff!
>
> For me the trade-offs of a big, cumbersome product don't work. I like my
> near-zero builds and can work more spontaneously!
>
>>> It's still at least FIVE TIMES FASTER than A68G! [2-3 TIMES FASTER]
>>
>> So what? - I don't need a Lua system. So why should I care.
>>
>> You are the one who seems to think that the speed factor is the most
>> important factor to choose a language for a project. - You are wrong
>> for the general case. (But it may be right for your personal universe,
>> of course.)
>
> You are wrong. What language do you use most? Let's say it is C
> (although you usually post about every other language except C!).
>
> Then, suppose your C compiler was written in Python rather than C++ or
> whatever and run under CPython. What you think would happen to your
> build-times?
>
> Now imagine further if the CPython interpreter was inself written and
> executed with CPython.
>
> So, the 'speed' of a language (ie. of its typical implementation, which
> also depends on the language design) does matter.
>
> If speed wasn't an issue then we'd all be using easy dynamic languages
> for productivity. In reality those easy languages are far too slow in
> most cases.
It is not clear what you mean by "easy dynamic languages". Take
Objective Caml as an example. It has read-eval-print loop, so
you can do interactive developement, so it is quit "dynamic".
It seems that most developement is done using bytecode interpreter,
but there is also optimizing compiler which can boast about
its benchmark results. OTOH, it has strict type system and
you need to stick to its rules. So not entirely easy, but
if you write correct code compiler will automatically assign
types, so you can avoid writing any type declarations.
Do you consider Objective Caml as an "easy dynamic language"?
Concerning choice of language: much code is in big programs and
is quite expensive to rewrite such a program in a different
language. So simply a lot of coding uses the same language
in which program is written. It is also common to write new
parts in a different language, but then the new language must
be link compatible with the old one. For example, classic
algoritmic languages like Fortran, Cobol, Algol, Pascal, C,
Modula 2 or Ada used to have link compatible implementations:
with modest effort one can call routines in one language from
the other.
For me correctness of programs is important and I find
static typing quite helpful in improving correctness.
First, compile time type checks catch a lot of errors
that would otherwise require extensive tests to catch.
In other words, errors are caught earlier than say with
dynamic typing. Second, well defined types serve as
documentation of used data structures and interfaces.
This make my thinking about program clearer which
tends to reduce mistakes that I make.
A lot of folks consider types are hard things and
associate "easy language" with one which is dynamically
typed, or worse essentially untyped.
My experience with dynamically typed languages is that in
largish program there may be essentially nonsense code which
is not executed in normal operation. But rarely it gets
executed leading to crashes or nonsence results. If you have
small project with good developers than this is less of a
problem. Also, practices like "you add tests first and can
only add code to fix failing test" help. But for large
project with average or below average abilities and
requirtement of high quality code typically management want
all possible way to monitor and increase quality. Which
frequenty means using staticaly typed language.
So, compatiblity with existing code may lead to use of
otherwise suboptimal language. Quality usually is opposite
of "easy" and may lead to use of staticaly typed language.
OTOH, for me biggest productivity boost comes from garbage
collection. But AFAIK problem of cooperation between garbage
collectors do not have satisfactory solution. More precisely,
if memory use were not a concern, then one could simply
turn C 'free' into a no-op (and do similar thing in other
languages). Consequently, there would be no garbage
collection and no problem of incompatibility between garbage
collectors. But with easy style of programing, a program
can easiliy allocate say a gigabyte per second. If program
need to run for long time one would get ridiculosly large
memory use. So for short running programs one can somemtimes
tolerate lack of dealocation and garbage collection,
such program simply uses few times more memory than it should.
But for longer running programs you can get unbounded growth
of memory use, which is usually unacceptable.
Also, big attraction of popular mainstream languages are
large libraries, so that many standard tasks are just
a library call or combination of small number of calls.
But somebody must write those libraries and deal with
difficulties. And frequently "easy" languages use libraries
where "hard" parts and written in "hard" languages.
>>>> The tools I'm using for my personal purposes, and those that I had been
>>>> using for professional purposes, all served the necessary requirements.
>>>> Your's don't.
>>>
>>> I'm just showing just how astonishingly fast modern hardware can be.
>>> Like at least a thousand times faster than a 1970s mainframe, and yet
>>> people are still waiting on compilers!
>>
>> You've been explained before many times already by many people that
>> differences in compile time may not beat other more relevant factors.
>
> I've also explained that I work by very freqent edit-run cycles. Then
> compile-times matter. This is why many like to use scripting languages
> as those don't have a discernible build step.
>
> But I can use my system language, *or* C via my compiler, just like a
> scripting language.
>
> You will find now various projects that apply JIT-techniques to such
> languages in an effort to provide a similar experience. (I don't need
> such techniques as my AOT compilers already work near-instantly.)
Good that this works for you. I recently worked on old version of
binutils for a niche target. To make them work I needed to
resolve some probles. First problem was that somebody thought that
adding '-Werror' to distributed code is a good idea. But I used
new version of gcc which implemented new warnings and the old
code faild to compile because it triggered new warnings which
'-Werror' turned into errors. I tried tcc, and compilation
using tcc worked fine. But there were bugs in binutils.
Trying to fix/work around I got nonsense results. After wasting
some time I realized to debug info generated by tcc was wrong,
or a least incompantible with debugger (that is gdb). So
I used a wrapper around gcc which discared '-Werror' and then
compilartion worked fine and I was able to debug binutils,
locate problematic lines and implement a workaround.
In all this I had to build binutils several times so faster
build would help. But I probably wasted more time due to tcc
debug info problem than waiting for builds. Simply, if
I need to debug a program, then speed difference between
gcc and tcc is less important to me than debug info.
gcc had to be much slower than it is to make a difference.
Simply debugging without proper support takes time and
at its current speed gcc with working debug info gives
me net saving compared to faster compiler without working
debug info.
Note, if needed I can debug without debugger. Simply, to
get information which is almost immediate using debugger
usually I would need several edit-run cycles. Even with
compile time reduced to 0 the edit-run part is likely
to take more time than using debugger.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:39 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 22:19 -0300
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-10-23 02:42 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 03:04 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-10-23 15:05 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-23 11:36 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 07:59 -0300
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 16:04 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-24 01:44 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 19:00 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-24 14:27 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-24 19:35 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-24 19:50 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-24 18:59 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 13:20 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-24 23:18 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-26 07:25 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-26 11:26 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-26 13:26 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-26 16:07 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-26 17:03 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-26 16:04 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-26 16:58 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-26 17:27 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-26 22:49 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-26 23:07 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 18:01 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-29 20:33 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-29 23:29 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 16:07 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-27 03:08 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-27 12:50 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-27 12:58 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-27 14:45 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-27 14:48 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-27 15:23 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-27 22:39 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-28 03:00 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-28 15:59 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-28 16:05 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-28 20:00 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-28 18:28 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-28 20:49 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-10-29 21:30 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-28 20:32 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-28 20:14 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-29 16:36 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-29 17:24 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-27 14:39 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-27 15:11 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-28 03:35 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-28 11:16 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 14:59 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-28 23:14 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 18:48 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-29 19:24 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 15:10 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-29 23:19 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 18:03 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-30 09:02 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-29 08:06 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-29 11:20 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-29 17:12 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-29 21:21 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-30 00:04 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 16:47 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-30 00:36 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-30 03:37 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 21:24 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-30 04:52 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-30 05:38 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-30 07:45 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-30 16:41 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2025-10-30 16:26 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-30 17:30 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2025-10-30 18:29 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-30 18:37 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 13:21 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:44 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:49 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-30 12:50 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-31 00:27 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 17:35 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-30 14:13 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-30 14:32 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-30 16:22 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-30 17:40 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 12:39 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-31 13:57 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 14:55 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-31 17:18 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 17:52 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2025-10-30 05:00 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-30 11:15 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-30 12:07 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-30 16:04 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-30 18:30 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-30 17:49 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-30 18:59 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-30 23:23 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 16:44 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 00:15 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 18:16 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 01:36 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 19:13 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-31 13:43 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-31 13:10 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 16:34 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-30 23:01 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 00:28 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 01:22 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2025-10-31 10:29 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-31 13:15 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-31 21:39 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2025-10-31 11:43 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 22:47 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-31 13:16 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 23:40 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 17:14 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-31 09:31 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-30 23:11 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-30 23:49 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-31 02:14 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-31 22:01 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-01 11:57 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-11-01 14:56 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 13:37 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-30 23:37 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2025-10-31 11:52 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-31 13:48 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-10-29 23:11 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-29 06:57 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-29 14:17 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-29 14:40 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2025-10-29 16:09 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-29 16:47 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-30 05:11 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-30 12:56 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-10-28 17:34 -0400
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-31 04:37 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 13:31 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 20:52 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 17:30 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:11 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:59 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 23:45 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-28 10:27 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-28 01:22 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 17:03 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-28 22:26 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-29 00:04 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-26 13:15 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 14:56 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-27 00:34 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 15:45 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-27 01:12 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 16:15 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-28 14:56 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-28 13:18 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-10-28 15:03 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-28 16:16 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-25 13:04 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-25 13:51 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-25 17:18 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-26 07:44 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-26 15:12 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-27 10:44 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-27 11:22 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-27 17:35 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-27 17:44 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-28 04:10 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 23:47 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-10-27 22:33 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-28 04:23 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-28 16:20 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 13:48 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-28 04:41 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-10-25 11:40 -0400
Re: New and improved version of cdecl bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2025-10-25 16:48 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-25 19:14 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 15:14 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-26 08:07 +0100
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-24 21:36 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 13:07 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-10-25 13:15 +0200
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 13:01 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 15:01 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Andrey Tarasevich <noone@noone.net> - 2025-10-26 12:09 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 15:36 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Paul J. Lucas" <paul@lucasmail.org> - 2025-12-09 07:31 -0800
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2025-12-09 20:38 +0000
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Paul J. Lucas" <paul@lucasmail.org> - 2025-12-09 16:46 -0800
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-12-09 17:51 -0800
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 14:44 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 15:38 -0700
Re: New and improved version of cdecl "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 11:51 -0700
csiph-web