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Groups > comp.theory > #133991

Re: PO Meltdown?

From Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: PO Meltdown?
Date 2025-10-28 02:24 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10dp9h8$1gcin$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (13 earlier) <10dojmu$14hfe$3@dont-email.me> <20251027134227.763@kylheku.com> <10domv4$14hfe$4@dont-email.me> <20251027141041.643@kylheku.com> <20251027172403.730@kylheku.com>

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On 28/10/2025 00:37, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On 2025-10-27, Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> wrote:
>> On 2025-10-27, dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/27/2025 4:48 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>> On 2025-10-27, dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I am only referring to these fifteen lines
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A straight forward sequence of steps that any
>>>>>> C programmer can easily determine:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int D()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>      int Halt_Status = H(D);
>>>>>>      if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>        HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>      return Halt_Status;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you have nothing as this is incomplete and cannot be run.
>>>>
>>>> When I posted the git repo several days ago, Olcott immediately
>>>> called me dishonest and replied with the above nonsense.
>>>>
>>>> He has been repeating it ever since.
>>>>
>>>> Basically a meltdown, of sorts.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Oh yeah, he's thrashing.  He knows he's been beat and doesn't dare look
>>> at your code, lest he has to admit he wasted the last 21 years.
>>
>> But I explained that the code can help you validate that your cheats are
>> working. If you want to say that DDD simulated by HHH does not halt, and
>> not be lying, you can now test that actual claim. If the simulated DDD
>> halts, and you would like it not to, you have something to iterate
>> against to get that fixed.
>>
>> Every engineer would be happy to have an easy, ready-made way to test
>> the property of their system that they want to believe to be true.
>>
>> Instead of thank you, we get a childish tantrum.
> 
> Unfortunately, it is not that rosy. The problem is that Olcott has not
> only been claiming that various D's do not terminate when simulated
> by various H's. He's been claiming that the D's do not terminate because
> they never reach the "do the opposite" logic at all.
> 
> For instance, I ran a test on an old Halt.obj pulled from the git
> history, and found that when its simulation of the abandoned DD is
> continued, it soon hits an infinite loop.
> 
> While, for that .obj file, it confirms the claim that the simulated DD
> doesn't terminate, the problem is that the simulated DD in that
> situation fails to terminate due to getting into the infinite loop,
> which is only possible because the simulated HHH(DD) returned non-zero
> to simulated DD.
> 
> Thus the simulated HHH says, about the doubly-simulated DD, that the
> doubly-simulated DD halts A bug or cheat has been exposed in the
> machine; it is contradicting itself.

Right.  To be overly charitable to PO, I don't believe PO coded things this way with any intent at 
"cheating".  Firstly, he just didn't see how to do it "properly", but if he had he'd have probably 
done it that way.  [Cleaner code without the global data misuse would be fewer lines of code than 
what PO ended up with!]  Secondly, I think he sees what he did as a kind of "optimisation" rather 
than a cheat.  He realised that it would be the outer HHH that always spotted the abort pattern, and 
that pattern was not affected by whether the inner HHH's actually performed the checks, so "no harm" 
if he just misses them out on the inner HHH's!  He just wasn't thinking ahead to your RECK 
resumption of abandoned emulations!
> 
> Olcott knows that continuing the abandoned simulation uncovers
> damning evidence against his contraption, regardless of whether it
> halts or not.
> 
> ne way to continue to defend it is via the following preposterous
> argument: all the odd-numbered simulation levels of DD are
> non-terminating, whereas the even-numbered levels (including zero,
> directly exedcuted) are terminating. And insist that this is correct.
> 
> That narrative is possibly too far-fetched even for the prime
> minister of far-fetched land himself.
> 
We've always known that PO's implementation of HHH/DD is broken, through the misuse of global data 
to communicate across emulation levels and to alter the behaviour of emulations depending on 
emulation depth.  Until that issue is fixed, anything PO claims is /proved/ by his C code is 
nonsense.  PO can only argue his code /proves/ something, if that code is actually correct!

Unfortunately, until the global data issue is resolved, anything your RECK code shows about the 
behaviour of PO's abandoned emulations is effectively commenting more on the fickle behaviour of 
PO's global data interactions than anything else.  A kind of nonsense-in-nonsense out!  (Not your 
fault in the slightest.)

I don't think PO is capable of fixing his code, and I won't be helping him on that front.  [I did 
once start explaining exactly what PO needed to do, code-wise, but he just ignored that and 
continued replying as usual, accusing me of not paying attention and lacking basic competence etc., 
and that moment has passed!]

Meanwhile, we sometimes kind of pretend that PO has fixed the problem, and people discuss what his 
code /WOULD/ do /assuming/ that basic issue had been resolved.  That is being charitable to PO, and 
is sometimes referred to as "steel-manning".

   <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#Steelmanning>

Very little of PO's arguments would change : his HHH would still decide neverhalts for DD, and DD() 
would still halt when run directly, same as happens with the broken code.  All the usual objections 
raised by posters here also continue to apply, so any such "steel-manned" arguments are still seen 
to be just as silly as the non-steel-manned versions.  So we may well choose to be charitable on 
this point!

[The only thing I can think of that changes would be the HHH/HHH1 comparison: if the global data 
misuse were fixed, both HHH(DD) and HHH1(DD) would return 0, so PO would lose one of his (silly) 
arguments that emulation behaviour depends on who is doing the emulating...]

Your comments on how PO's abandoned emulations should behave if resumed would work fine if PO had 
fixed the global code issues - each resumed emulation would halt, because in effect each emulation 
level behaves the same, simply tracking the steps of the "native" computation which halts.  So the 
point you are trying to convince PO of stands.  [But unfortunately will never convince PO...]


Mike.

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Thread

No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 12:53 -0500
  Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 20:05 +0200
  Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 14:20 -0400
    Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-25 20:44 +0100
  Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-25 11:44 -0700
    Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 13:58 -0500
    Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 17:17 -0500
      Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 00:44 +0000
        Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 19:51 -0500
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:06 -0400
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 18:09 -0700
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 01:16 +0000
            A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 20:20 -0500
              Re: A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:28 -0400
                Re: A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 20:32 -0500
                Re: A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:38 -0400
                Re: A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 01:50 +0000
                Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 20:58 -0500
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 02:02 +0000
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:04 -0500
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 03:46 +0000
                Kaz proves his deceit by dodging this simple point --- Is Kaz just a Liar ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 23:10 -0500
                Re: Kaz proves his deceit by dodging this simple point --- Is Kaz just a Liar ??? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 04:52 +0000
                Re: Kaz proves his deceit by dodging this simple point --- Is Kaz just a Liar ??? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-27 20:59 -0400
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2025-10-26 20:15 -0600
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:20 -0500
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 19:25 -0700
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:35 -0400
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:38 -0500
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:43 -0400
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:45 -0500
                olcott tries to hide the evidence that he admitted the input to HHH(DD) is halting dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:47 -0400
                dbush is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:52 -0500
                olcott tries to hide the evidence that he admitted the input to HHH(DD) is halting dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:57 -0400
                dbush proves his deceit by dodging this simple point olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:11 -0500
                Can someone from comp.lang.c or comp.lang.c++ help out here? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:02 -0500
                olcott tries to hide the evidence that he admitted the input to HHH(DD) is halting dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 23:04 -0400
                dbush proves is deceit by dodging this simple point olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:09 -0500
                olcott tries to hide the evidence that he admitted the input to HHH(DD) is halting dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 23:14 -0400
                dbush proves his deceit by dodging this simple point --- dbush is a bot? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:42 -0500
                olcott tries to hide the evidence that he admitted the input to HHH(DD) is halting dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 07:25 -0400
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 04:47 +0000
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 23:54 -0500
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 07:30 -0400
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 18:36 +0000
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 11:55 -0700
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-27 05:59 +0000
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 08:18 -0500
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-27 16:50 +0000
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 11:58 -0500
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 11:48 -0700
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-10-27 03:31 +0100
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:36 -0500
                Re: Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-10-27 14:08 +0000
                I am only in these groups because I have been cheated out of a fair review. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 09:48 -0500
              Re: A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 01:38 +0000
                Re: A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has --- Now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 20:45 -0500
                Re: A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has --- Now dishonored in his deceit dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:49 -0400
                dbush is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 20:56 -0500
                Re: dbush is now dishonored in his deceit dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:05 -0400
                Re: dbush is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 21:15 -0500
                olcott tries to hide the evidence that he admitted the input to HHH(DD) is halting dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:33 -0400
                Re: A dishonest dodge is all that Kaz has --- Now dishonored in his deceit Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 01:57 +0000
                Kaz is now dishonored in his deceit olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 20:59 -0500
        Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-27 04:32 +0000
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 23:35 -0500
            Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 16:45 +0000
              Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 11:53 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 18:48 +0000
  Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-25 21:20 -0400
  Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko Levanto <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-26 11:06 +0200
  Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 09:11 +0100
    Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 08:15 -0500
      Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 16:04 +0100
        Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 10:19 -0500
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 17:41 +0100
            Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 11:52 -0500
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 16:58 +0000
            Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 12:02 -0500
              Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 18:42 +0000
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 13:53 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 15:20 -0400
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 14:33 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 15:40 -0400
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 14:53 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 16:12 -0400
                PO Meltdown? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 20:48 +0000
                Re: PO Meltdown? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 17:07 -0400
                Re: PO Meltdown? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 21:14 +0000
                Re: PO Meltdown? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 00:37 +0000
                Kaz is a damned liar olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:44 -0500
                Re: Kaz is a damned liar Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 00:52 +0000
                Re: Kaz is a damned liar "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:05 -0700
                Kaz is a damned liar olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:44 -0500
                Re: PO Meltdown? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-28 02:24 +0000
                D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 22:18 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 23:27 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 03:40 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 22:45 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 23:47 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 03:54 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 23:01 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 06:02 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-28 15:18 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 11:21 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 16:44 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-28 17:24 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 15:15 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 16:18 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 20:23 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 16:00 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 21:23 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 16:33 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 18:01 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 12:03 -0700
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 19:56 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 13:27 -0700
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-28 08:40 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 09:43 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 12:08 -0700
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-03 14:06 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 10:13 -0600
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 00:04 -0400
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 23:29 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 05:48 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 22:51 -0700
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 07:48 -0400
                Re: PO Meltdown? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 03:31 +0000
                Re: PO Meltdown? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 13:25 +0800
                Re: PO Meltdown? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 00:32 -0500
                Re: PO Meltdown? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 05:53 +0000
                D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 09:27 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 16:48 +0000
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 15:23 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 21:26 +0000
                D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 00:27 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 22:46 -0700
                D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 21:58 -0500
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:59 -0700
                Re: D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 23:10 -0400
                Kaz insists on dodging this point only because he knows it is irrefutable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 17:40 -0500
                Re: Kaz insists on dodging this point only because he knows it is irrefutable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 00:23 +0000
                Re: Kaz insists on dodging this point only because he knows it is irrefutable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:29 -0500
                Re: Kaz insists on dodging this point only because he knows it is irrefutable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 20:32 -0400
                Re: Kaz insists on dodging this point only because he knows it is irrefutable Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 00:41 +0000
                Re: Kaz insists on dodging this point only because he knows it is irrefutable +++ olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:48 -0500
                Re: Kaz insists on dodging this point only because he knows it is irrefutable +++ dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 20:52 -0400
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 18:01 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 19:05 -0400
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 18:11 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 18:38 -0700
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 03:21 +0000
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 22:44 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 23:46 -0400
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 22:38 -0700
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 07:55 -0400
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2025-10-27 18:57 +0100
  Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-27 12:10 +0200
    Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 08:45 -0500
      Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 17:03 +0000
        Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 12:05 -0500
      Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years tTh <tth@none.invalid> - 2025-10-27 19:00 +0100
      Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-27 19:59 +0000
        Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 17:38 -0500
      Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-28 11:09 +0200
        Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-28 10:06 +0000
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 09:52 -0500
            Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-29 13:02 +0200
              Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 11:29 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 12:48 -0700
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-30 12:24 +0200
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 08:15 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-31 13:53 +0200
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 08:42 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 10:13 -0400
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-01 11:22 +0200
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:27 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 09:53 -0400
                understand this simple C ? --- counter-factual assumptions olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 09:22 -0500
                Re: understand this simple C ? --- counter-factual assumptions dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 10:37 -0400
                Re: understand this simple C ? --- counter-factual assumptions olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 09:41 -0500
                Re: understand this simple C ? --- counter-factual assumptions dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 11:24 -0400
                Re: understand this simple C ? --- counter-factual assumptions olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 10:32 -0500
                Re: understand this simple C ? --- counter-factual assumptions dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 11:44 -0400
                Re: understand this simple C ? --- counter-factual assumptions olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:04 -0500
                Re: understand this simple C ? --- counter-factual assumptions dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 14:14 -0400
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-02 14:35 +0200
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 17:31 -0600
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-03 23:48 +0000
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-04 12:00 +0200
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-29 13:01 +0200
        Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 09:55 -0500
          Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-29 13:03 +0200
            Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 11:29 -0500
              Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 12:49 -0700
              Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-30 12:29 +0200
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 08:17 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-31 14:02 +0200
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 08:50 -0500
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 12:58 -0700
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-01 11:32 +0200
                Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:32 -0500
  Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-27 18:50 -0700

csiph-web