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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-10 > #187567

Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs

From "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups alt.comp.os.windows-10, alt.comp.os.windows-11
Subject Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs
Date 2025-09-19 16:29 +0100
Organization 255 software
Message-ID <10ajst9$id8m$4@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <10ah8k1$3nl4g$1@dont-email.me> <prlockpsiao6ep99213tg2ss4ss0rjl18c@4ax.com> <10aipu5$3nh73$5@dont-email.me> <o70qck13qiupp9a0vskq8k3h6ij4mfsm70@4ax.com> <10ajmao$h4m1$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2025/9/19 14:37:22, Paul wrote:
> On Fri, 9/19/2025 3:12 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2025 06:32:53 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2025/9/18 20:19:36, Char Jackson wrote:
>>>> Do you do anything to address the possibility of bit rot?
>>> Not as much as I should.
>>>
>> <snip>
>>> I think rather than getting into complicated monitoring against rot,
>>> just starting a complete new backup occasionally - though it may take
>>> longer - is simpler.
>> Sounds like the assumption is that the source files are always good and
>> only the backups are at any risk of damage. To a large degree, I follow

I realised as I was writing (or shortly after) that that was indeed the
case.

>> that logic here, but it may not be the perfect approach. I've seen cases
>> here, where a damaged file is backed up and I'm not aware until much
>> later. 

I've had that with my genealogy stuff: the software (Brother's Keeper)
had removed the links from my mother (and possibly other people) to
several of the picture files; since I don't look at the picture tab
every time I go to a person's record, I was not aware of that until it
was well and truly baked into many backups. (Fortunately the picture
files themselves weren't lost, only the links to them, which weren't
hard to regenerate.)>>
> I had bad RAM on the WinXP machine, and out of idleness I would
> sometimes run the Verify on the .mrimgs I was making on there.
> And to my shock and horror, one of them had a bad verify (making
> a little project for myself). I had to drop what I was doing,
> and Verify in earnest.

Ah, I usually _do_ set the verify flag for my images, since they're
small so it doesn't take that long. But - other than that I alternate
between two sets - I don't have anything similar for my data backups,
which are arguably _more_ important. (Though I do backup the Thunderbird
and Genealogy sections more often and differently.)>
> It turned out several of them were bad, did not pass Verify, and it
> was bad RAM in some filesystem sensitive location doing it. I changed
> out all four RAM sticks (as I could not MEMTEST and isolate to any
> stick less than the entire set of four installed), and finally I
> could make a .mrimg that would pass Verify. The WinXP machine had
> DDR2 RAM, and by the time the machine died, I was on my third set
> of RAM. The later machines don't do this. DDR4/DDR5, you can get
> decent RAM now (and hey, even decent memory controllers).
> 
> You could go to the trouble of doing a hashdeep or md5deep of the file
> tree, and do a restore on a test disk, and do the hashdeep on there.
> It has an option to compare a previously prepared manifest against
> a second disk. And that would tell you whether the clusters were
> coming back, but it might not catch every security setting for the
> files.
> 
> But part of the problem with Windows and this sort of verification,
> is the OS is always "doing things", so a lot of your work has to be
> done offline, and even Macrium may leave a marker after a run,
> so you hardly have forensic control of what is going on.

I always both make, and restore from, my images having cold booted from
the Macrium disc. (Actually I can't remember when I last had to do a
restore.) I know Macrium _can_ make an image from a running system, I
just feel more secure not doing so.>
> And you'd need a fleet of clean disks to be doing the experiments on 🙂
> Even for a guy with a fleet of disks, I don't always have a fleet of
> clean disks ready for this kind of "trouble".
> 
> *******
> 
> Yesterdays experiment, was to upgrade a Windows 11 Pro 23H2 to 24H2.
> Since 25H2 is incoming, the settings level in WU should be "aggressive"
> for 23H2 to 24H2, and it took giving the disk a rest for eight hours,
> before WU admitted it was doing 24H2 (without my permission, just...
> doing it). No, I'm pretty careful about these things, and I didn't click
> anything.
> 
> But anyway, I couldn't run cleanmgr.exe afterwards and get it to stop
> faffing about. It spent a lot of time calculating, and not a lot of
> time cleaning. I tried killing "competing" activities on the machine,
> still did not help. It appeared to have the storage railed, while
> making no progress at all.
> 
> Turns out it was fragmented from here to hell and back. Looks like
> the scheduled defrag/optimize had never run. It was bad enough, I
> cloned over from HDD to NVMe, tried to fix it there, the NVMe was

Does defrag run on a non-spinning drive? I thought it served little
purpose, and shortened the life of the "drive".

> running like snot too, cloned it back to HDD again (make partition
> size smaller during the clone-over, it defragments for you). Finally
> the file system was defragmented enough, the cleanmgr run would
> remove the Windows.old for me. That's all I wanted to do.
> 
> Now, while this was going on, during the clone, the declared size
> of the files on disk, varied between 33GB and 44GB or so. I had mentioned
> to Frank, about Macrium not always handling things in System Volume Information
> correctly. That didn't seem to be the issue this time. It seemed to be
> the "invalid $BITMAP" on the file system at rest doing this. As eventually
> after a couple reboots (and re-mounts of the file system), the Properties
> dialog for C: finally returned to the original 44GB partition size.
> I can tell you, if that was my Daily Driver doing this, I would
> have been furious. Fortunately, this is just a part of the fleet, maintained
> for test. But these are the sorts of behaviors that make you question
> whether this is an OS or not, when this stuff happens. How can you have

Indeed!

> a filesystem that doesn't inventory properly at all times ? The Properties
> dialog for C: , should always return correct values.

[rest snipped as it's way over my head!]
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

(Incidentally, it was made in Spain so shouldn't it be a "paella
western"?) - Barry Norman [on "A Fistful of Dollars"], RT 2014/10/4-10

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Thread

Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Jack <Jack@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-16 02:30 +0000
  Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-16 07:09 -0400
  Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-09-16 23:08 +0800
    Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-16 13:17 -0400
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-16 23:09 -0700
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-09-21 14:49 +0800
    Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Jack <Jack@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-16 20:43 +0000
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2025-09-16 21:53 +0000
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Stan Brown <someone@example.com> - 2025-09-17 07:52 -0700
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-09-21 14:49 +0800
        Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-21 07:19 -0400
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Shinji Ikari <shinji@gmx.net> - 2025-09-21 19:05 +0200
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-09-23 18:58 +0800
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-21 20:22 +1000
        Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-21 19:59 +0100
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-22 20:15 +1000
  Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-09-16 20:40 +0000
    Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-09-21 14:51 +0800
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-21 20:23 +1000
        Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-09-26 14:17 +0800
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs MikeS <mikes@is.invalid> - 2025-09-26 10:11 +0100
            Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-09-29 14:39 +0800
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-26 23:16 +1000
            Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Fraud Detective <fraud.detective@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-26 21:20 +0000
              Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-09-29 14:38 +0800
  Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2025-09-17 08:18 -0400
  Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-09-17 17:32 -0400
    Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-17 22:12 -0400
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-09-17 22:31 -0400
        Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-18 08:35 +0100
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-09-18 09:09 -0400
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-18 09:47 -0400
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-18 15:06 +0000
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-18 20:26 +1000
        Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-09-18 11:38 +0100
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-18 14:49 +0000
            Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-09-18 12:20 -0400
              Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-18 12:52 -0400
            Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-18 12:32 -0400
              Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-18 18:18 +0000
              Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-09-19 03:02 -0400
        Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-18 16:31 +0100
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-18 12:13 -0400
            Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-18 18:18 +0000
              Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-18 18:34 -0400
          Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-09-18 14:19 -0500
            Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-19 06:32 +0100
              Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-09-19 02:12 -0500
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-19 09:37 -0400
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-19 16:29 +0100
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-09-19 18:07 +0000
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-19 21:00 +0100
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw@gci.net> - 2025-09-19 09:07 -0800
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-19 15:32 -0400
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "Bill Bradshaw" <bradshaw@gci.net> - 2025-09-20 09:05 -0800
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-09-19 20:20 -0500
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-09-20 19:12 +1000
                Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2025-09-20 23:37 +0000
        Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-18 11:32 -0400
  Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-09-18 05:01 +0200
    Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-17 23:49 -0400
      Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs "...winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-09-18 12:58 -0400
  Re: Windows 10 and Windows 11 ISOs wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> - 2025-09-22 09:49 +0100

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