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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-10 > #186697
| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.comp.os.windows-10, comp.sys.mac.advocacy, alt.comp.os.windows-11 |
| Subject | Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing |
| Date | 2025-08-12 01:15 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <107eim1$32gtq$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <107bbqj$26r4d$1@dont-email.me> <107bq4h$2ah49$1@dont-email.me> <107c1lq$27jk$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com> <107c285$2c32t$1@dont-email.me> <107dckr$2nolj$7@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
On Mon, 8/11/2025 2:26 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2025-08-10 23:23, Hank Rogers wrote:
>> Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 00:04:32 -0400, Paul wrote :
>>>
>>>
>>>> And to help you, I have explained the implementation.
>>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> You're not normally on the Apple newsgroups, but I'm sure you're aware of
>>> the Apple religious zealotry, which will stop at nothing to promote/defend
>>> Apple to the death.
>>>
>>> In case you're unaware, Alan Baker is a classic Apple troll whom most of us
>>> have plonked years ago, as is David B. (although he's making a Snit-like
>>> resurgence recently) as is WolfFan & Hank Rogers - all of whom are similar.
>>>
>>> They're all Apple religious nutcases who almost hate that Windows exists.
>>>
>>> There's nothing wrong, per se, with them adoring their macs, but what's
>>> common with all of them is none of them know anything about Windows.
>>>
>>> The only thing they know is what Apple marketing advertises.
>>> They make *all* their decisions based purely on Apple advertising, in fact.
>>>
>>> They're herd animals to the core - where they live for affirmation of their
>>> choices which themselves were dictated by Apple - and not by critical
>>> thought processes.
>>>
>>> Anyway, you're welcome to strive to edify them but I think it's impossible.
>>>
>>
>> Wrong. I don’t have a Mac and don’t want one.
>>
>
> And also wrong in that the "edification" Paul was attempting to provide was plainly incorrect.
>
> :-)
Here is an experiment carried out on an NTFS partition.
The NTFS partition is created just for this exercise -- as
a data partition, it is a bit "quieter". There are no intervening
events polluting sequences here.
*******
I started with "how do you do the equivalent of touch() in Windows".
Some AI at Google, provided this.
type nul > E:\empty.txt
The first thing I noticed, is right after this when I attempted to
read the usn journal, it did not respond. First then, I had to create
a journal.
fsutil usn createjournal [m=1000 a=100] e: # The size arguments are not required, and I used defaults
fsutil usn readjournal E: > S:\journal-output.txt # This dumps the journal so far.
This is the event which shows an example of a zero length file being created.
Usn : 0
File name : empty.txt
File name length : 18
Reason : 0x00000004: Data truncation
Time stamp : Tue, 8/12/2025 0:11:24
File attributes : 0x00000020: Archive
File ID : 00000000000000000001000000000026
Parent file ID : 00000000000000000005000000000005
Source info : 0x00000000: *NONE*
Security ID : 0
Major version : 3
Minor version : 0
Record length : 96
*******
Now that the journal is running, the first experiment is to
copy a file from the root folder, down to an arbitrary folder lower down.
There are six journal entries, and this is the last entry. The event
changes seem to be ORed together in the status word. Basic info change,
might be the final size of the copied file. The nfi.exe entry shows
how the file information is stored in the Master File Table.
Copy background.bmp to A\B\C\D\E
Usn : 5584
File name : background.bmp
File name length : 28
Reason : 0x80008903: Data overwrite | Data extend | File create | Security change | Basic info change | Close
Time stamp : Tue, 8/12/2025 0:23:01
File attributes : 0x00000020: Archive
File ID : 00000000000000000001000000000033
Parent file ID : 0000000000000000000100000000002f
Source info : 0x00000000: *NONE*
Security ID : 0
Major version : 3
Minor version : 0
Record length : 104
(Insert NFI entry here)
File 51 File ID 0x33
\A\B\C\D\E\background.bmp <=== this is my copied file
$STANDARD_INFORMATION (resident)
$FILE_NAME (resident)
$DATA (nonresident)
logical sectors 76568-84167 (0x12b18-0x148c7)
*******
This uses the mouse to move from the root folder, to five levels down,
using two file explorer windows. As long as the balloon text next to the
mouse cursor says (Move), it is being moved and not copied.
This is not an atomic event. It's two separate events. Status words
do not using the ORing scheme.
Move background2.bmp to A\B\C\D\E
Usn : 5672
File name : background2.bmp
File name length : 30
Reason : 0x00001000: Rename: old name
Time stamp : Tue, 8/12/2025 0:24:01
File attributes : 0x00000020: Archive
File ID : 00000000000000000001000000000031
Parent file ID : 00000000000000000005000000000005
Source info : 0x00000000: *NONE*
Security ID : 0
Major version : 3
Minor version : 0
Record length : 112
Usn : 5768
File name : background2.bmp
File name length : 30
Reason : 0x00002000: Rename: new name
Time stamp : Tue, 8/12/2025 0:24:01
File attributes : 0x00000020: Archive
File ID : 00000000000000000001000000000031
Parent file ID : 0000000000000000000100000000002f
Source info : 0x00000000: *NONE*
Security ID : 0
Major version : 3
Minor version : 0
Record length : 112
Usn : 5864
File name : background2.bmp
File name length : 30
Reason : 0x80002000: Rename: new name | Close
Time stamp : Tue, 8/12/2025 0:24:01
File attributes : 0x00000020: Archive
File ID : 00000000000000000001000000000031
Parent file ID : 0000000000000000000100000000002f
Source info : 0x00000000: *NONE*
Security ID : 0
Major version : 3
Minor version : 0
Record length : 112
(Insert NFI entry here) [Keeps using same Filenum entry]
File 49 File ID 0x31
\A\B\C\D\E\background2.bmp <=== this is the path after the move
$STANDARD_INFORMATION (resident)
$FILE_NAME (resident)
$DATA (nonresident)
logical sectors 63128-70727 (0xf698-0x11447)
*******
For the third and final experiment, we can check to see if a hardlink
was being used to implement a move. It is not. It's a separate event.
To use this to make a move() needs two journal entries, the first entry
to make-your-own move() is making the hardlink, the second operation
would be removing the original $FILE_NAME entry (which would drop the
nfi.exe entry below to having only one $FILE_NAME. Doing the move()
this way is not atomic or compact either, because it would take
two events to do it this way as well.
mklink background5.bmp to A\B\C\D\E
mklink /h E:\A\B\C\D\E\background5.bmp E:\background5.bmp
Usn : 5960
File name : background5.bmp
File name length : 30
Reason : 0x80010000: Hard link change | Close
Time stamp : Tue, 8/12/2025 0:29:24
File attributes : 0x00000020: Archive
File ID : 00000000000000000001000000000032
Parent file ID : 0000000000000000000100000000002f
Source info : 0x00000000: *NONE*
Security ID : 0
Major version : 3
Minor version : 0
Record length : 112
(Insert NFI entry here) [Adds a second $FILE_NAME to the entry, describes both hardlinked items]
File 50 File ID 0x32
\background5.bmp
$STANDARD_INFORMATION (resident)
$FILE_NAME (resident) \___ To show how one set of clusters can have two names
$FILE_NAME (resident) /
$DATA (nonresident)
logical sectors 70728-76567 (0x11448-0x12b17)
Summary: It takes calculus to correlate the individual events
in the trace with one another. Do I personally know what
intervening events could be stuffed between events in this
trace ? I do not know.
Paul
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It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-09 16:30 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-08-09 18:55 -0500
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-09 17:08 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Windows11 Proud User <Windows@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-10 00:51 +0000
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> - 2025-08-10 03:22 +0000
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-09 23:52 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> - 2025-08-10 09:54 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-09 23:28 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-10 12:34 +0800
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-10 11:25 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-10 12:37 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-10 19:46 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-10 17:00 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-11 00:04 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-11 06:13 +0000
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> - 2025-08-11 06:23 +0000
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 11:26 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-12 01:15 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 08:54 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-12 13:41 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 10:54 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2025-10-01 14:56 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-01 14:08 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 10:57 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 08:52 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 20:22 +0800
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-11 19:16 +0000
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 17:03 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2025-08-12 12:36 +0800
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-10-06 15:49 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2025-08-10 18:33 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-11 02:12 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 11:25 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-11 18:02 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-11 17:01 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-12 01:24 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 08:49 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-12 17:10 +0000
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-12 08:55 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-17 16:03 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-08-17 18:15 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 22:19 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-01 14:18 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-05 15:01 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-10-06 02:46 +0000
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-05 21:16 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-06 19:23 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-10-06 09:56 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-06 20:54 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-10-06 15:59 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 22:35 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 13:53 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:12 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:18 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 08:59 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:18 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-10-08 11:16 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2025-10-06 17:28 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 09:33 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:23 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:20 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 14:22 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 09:00 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:30 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-08 11:48 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-10-08 11:25 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:22 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:21 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:20 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 08:58 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 22:44 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 13:56 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 23:22 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 16:51 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 20:35 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-10-08 11:38 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:23 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-06 04:52 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 14:17 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 09:12 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 22:47 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 14:12 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-06 23:25 +0200
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 16:55 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 21:21 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:24 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-10-06 15:45 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 09:13 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-10-06 17:48 +0100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 10:08 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-06 19:51 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 17:27 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-06 21:47 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-06 22:13 -0700
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-10-08 22:01 +1100
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-10-08 10:45 -0400
Re: It is stunning when you see how badly Windows operates: indexing Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-10-08 08:25 -0700
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