Why tuck the tail in front of a false Messias (Was: Avoid the cheap tricks by Scryer Prolog)

From	Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.prolog
Subject	Why tuck the tail in front of a false Messias (Was: Avoid the cheap tricks by Scryer Prolog)
Date	2025-06-23 22:20 +0200
Message-ID	<103ccui$16ehi$2@solani.org> (permalink)
References	<vpceij$is1s$1@solani.org> <103c6l1$16brf$1@solani.org> <103c6vq$16c1m$1@solani.org> <103c96u$174ch$1@solani.org> <103ccs9$16ehi$1@solani.org>

Show all headers | View raw

My guess SWI-Prolog could position its self as
dual use. If it is not going dual use and as a
Prolog system that is supposed to lead the way

in teaching, it might only add to the segregation
and confusion among Prolog systems. Of course people
like Markus Triska try to position themselves

as teachers and messias of Prolog. Why tuck the tail?

Mild Shock schrieb:
> 
> I don’t know, I would try to get out of the
> cornering that Scryer Prolog and Trealla Prolog
> tries to do with cheap tricks like this here,
> which library(portray_text) will probably
> 
> /* Scryer Prolog 0.9.4-411 */
> ?- "٢١٠" = [H|T]. /* [0x0662, 0x0661, 0x0660] */
>     H = '٢', T = "١٠".
> 
> never attempt for codes, but might easily do
> for chars. It has currently only implemented:
> 
> /* SWI-Prolog 9.3.24 */
> text_code(Code) :-
>      is_text_code(Code),
>      !.
> text_code(9).      % horizontal tab, \t
> text_code(10).     % newline \n
> text_code(13).     % carriage return \r
> text_code(C) :-    % space to tilde (127 is DEL)
>      between(32, 126, C).
> 
> And a greater range might really start getting into the
> way in working with lists that carry numbers.
> 
> My guess SWI-Prolog could position its self as dual use.
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> What WG17 could do to prevent segregation.
>> It could specify:
>>
>> - The back_quotes flag. Not really something
>>    new , most Prolog systems have it already.
>>
>> - The [X] evaluable function. Not really something
>>    new , most Prolog systems have it already. For
>>    example DEC-10 Prolog (10 November 1982) had it
>>    already, The new thing for some Prolog systems
>>    would be its non-strict evaluation strategy
>>    and the dual use:
>>
>>   [X] (a list of just one element) evaluates to X if X is an
>>   integer. Since a quoted string is just a list of integers,
>>   this allows a quoted character to be used in place of its
>>   ASCII code; e.g. "A" behaves within arithmetic expressions
>>   as the integer 65.
>>
>> https://userweb.fct.unl.pt/~lmp/publications/online-papers/DECsystem-10%20PROLOG%20USER%27S%20MANUAL.pdf 
>>
>>
>> Instead what is WG17 doing?
>>
>> - Introducing a notation for open strings:
>>
>>     [a, b, c|X] = "abc" || X
>>
>>    With a new separator ||, giving possibly much more
>>    headache to Prolog system implementors than a flag
>>    and an evaluable function.
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Oops should read:
>>>
>>> 0'0 =< [C], [C] =< 0'9, Digit is [C]-0'0`.
>>>
>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>> What is holy is only for Dogelog Player!
>>>>
>>>> Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not
>>>> throw your pearls before pigs, lest they
>>>> trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
>>>> -- Matthew 7:6
>>>> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207%3A6
>>>>
>>>> I have deleted my posts and the swi2.pl.log proposal:
>>>>
>>>> between(C, 0'0, 0'9), Digit is C-0'0.`
>>>>
>>>> Just rewrite it to:
>>>>
>>>> 0'0 =< [Digit], [Digit] =< 0'9, [Digit] is C-0'0`.
>>>>
>>>> The [X] in an evaluation is dual use again:
>>>>
>>>> ?- X is [a].
>>>> X = 97.
>>>>
>>>> ?- X is [0'a].
>>>> X = 97.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>>>
>>>>> Inductive logic programming at 30
>>>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.10556
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper contains not a single reference to autoencoders!
>>>>> Still they show this example:
>>>>>
>>>>> Fig. 1 ILP systems struggle with structured examples that
>>>>> exhibit observational noise. All three examples clearly
>>>>> spell the word "ILP", with some alterations: 3 noisy pixels,
>>>>> shifted and elongated letters. If we would be to learn a
>>>>> program that simply draws "ILP" in the middle of the picture,
>>>>> without noisy pixels and elongated letters, that would
>>>>> be a correct program.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess ILP is 30 years behind the AI boom. An early autoencoder
>>>>> turned into transformer was already reported here (*):
>>>>>
>>>>> SERIAL ORDER, Michael I. Jordan - May 1986
>>>>> https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~gary/PAPER-SUGGESTIONS/Jordan-TR-8604-OCRed.pdf 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well ILP might have its merits, maybe we should not ask
>>>>> for a marriage of LLM and Prolog, but Autoencoders and ILP.
>>>>> But its tricky, I am still trying to decode the da Vinci code of
>>>>>
>>>>> things like stacked tensors, are they related to k-literal clauses?
>>>>> The paper I referenced is found in this excellent video:
>>>>>
>>>>> The Making of ChatGPT (35 Year History)
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFS90-FX6pg
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Thread

Prolog totally missed the AI Boom Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-22 13:05 +0100
  Auto-Encoders as Prolog Fact Stores (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-22 22:51 +0100
    Ignorance in ILP circles confirmed (Was: Auto-Encoders as Prolog Fact Stores) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-23 18:33 +0100
    Neuro infused logic programming [NILP] (Was: Auto-Encoders as Prolog Fact Stores) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-19 20:58 +0100
  Last Exit Analogical Resoning (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-07 18:16 +0100
  A software engineering analyis why Prolog fails (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-25 12:22 +0100
    Lets re-iterate software engineering first! (Was: A software engineering analyis why Prolog fails) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-27 11:42 +0100
      Re: Lets re-iterate software engineering first! (Was: A software engineering analyis why Prolog fails) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-27 11:43 +0100
  No Coders completely Brain Dead (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 16:37 +0200
    Unicode and atom length=1 (Was: No Coders completely Brain Dead) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 16:47 +0200
      Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player (Was: Unicode and atom length=1) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 17:03 +0200
        SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 18:43 +0200
          Re: SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 18:44 +0200
          The beauty of a double hook (Was: SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 18:45 +0200
          The beauty of a dual use hook (Was: SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 19:01 +0200
            maplist(char_code, Chars, Codes) is bidirectional (Was: The beauty of a dual use hook) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 19:17 +0200
              I really have lost all hope and given up (Was: maplist(char_code, Chars, Codes) is bidirectional) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 19:31 +0200
        Do Prologers know the Unicode Range? (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-27 13:21 +0200
          Can Prologers produce 100% Prolog Code? (Was: Do Prologers know the Unicode Range?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-27 13:22 +0200
            Attention: Python versus Java (Was: Can Prologers produce 100% Prolog Code?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-27 13:36 +0200
        Is there a Swiss Army Knife of launching a Prolog system (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-13 15:17 +0200
          An -e option could be the more rational choice (Was: Is there a Swiss Army Knife of launching a Prolog system) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-13 15:19 +0200
        Prolog Cycle detection in the Top-Level (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-20 13:39 +0200
          What does SWI-Prolog / Ciao Prolog produce? (Was: Prolog Cycle detection in the Top-Level) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-20 13:43 +0200
  Do not give dogs what is holy [Matthew 7:6] (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 20:33 +0200
    Typo:: Do not give dogs what is holy [Matthew 7:6] (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 20:38 +0200
      What WG17 could do to prevent segregation [DEC-10 Prolog (10 November 1982)] (Was: Typo:: Do not give dogs what is holy) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 21:16 +0200
        Avoid the cheap tricks by Scryer Prolog (Was: What WG17 could do to prevent segregation [DEC-10 Prolog (10 November 1982)]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 22:19 +0200
          Why tuck the tail in front of a false Messias (Was: Avoid the cheap tricks by Scryer Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 22:20 +0200
  Missed the AI Boom because missed the Emojis (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-29 13:32 +0200
    Bonus in Trealla Prolog, different Tokenizer (Was: Missed the AI Boom because missed the Emojis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-29 13:36 +0200
  Science is not prepared for the AI Revolution (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-29 16:35 +0200
  Bart Demoen's amageddon revisited (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-09 01:55 +0200
    Long story short: Not everybody was blended by Bart Demoen (Was: Bart Demoen's amageddon revisited) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-09 02:08 +0200
      On last sample: Barty Boy in full swing (Re: Long story short: Not everybody was blended by Bart Demoen) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-09 02:12 +0200
        I hope he doesn't get a heart attack (Was: On last sample: Barty Boy in full swing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-09 02:23 +0200
  Would Poincaré miss the AI Boom (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 19:17 +0200
    The ideal choice point as a logical formula (Was: Would Poincaré miss the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:22 +0200
      What is practical choice point eliminaton then? (Was: The ideal choice point as a logical formula) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:30 +0200
        Relation of the practical to the mathematical oracle (Was: What is practical choice point eliminaton then?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:35 +0200
          Should try semi-deep Prolog argument indexing (Was: Relation of the practical to the mathematical oracle) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:43 +0200
            Benefit and drawback: (Semi-)Deep indexing still rare! (Was: Should try semi-deep Prolog argument indexing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:58 +0200
              Does DCG standard [2025] say (Semi-)Deep indexing? (Was: Benefit and drawback: (Semi-)Deep indexing still rare!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 22:03 +0200
    Stack Overflow is declining, and GitHub might be next (Was: Would Poincaré miss the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 20:55 +0200
      GitHub 2.0: The no code companion repository (Was: Stack Overflow is declining, and GitHub might be next) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 21:15 +0200
    Gian-Carlo Rota’s legacy and modern AI (Was: Would Poincaré miss the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 12:00 +0200
  Will the world build on American Stacks? (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-14 15:55 +0200
    Analogy as a Core of Intelligence (Human & Artificial) (Re: Will the world build on American Stacks?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 12:14 +0200
      Alain Colmerauer Analogy : Rational Terms / Rational Numbers (Was: Analogy as a Core of Intelligence) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 14:33 +0200
        FYI: Peter Aczel Memorial Conference [10th September 2025] (Re: Alain Colmerauer Analogy : Rational Terms / Rational Numbers) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 14:57 +0200
          s/Coq/Rocq not found (Re: FYI: Peter Aczel Memorial Conference [10th September 2025]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 23:17 +0200
            Wonder Years are Over: Next Step Mars (Was: s/Coq/Rocq not found) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 23:36 +0200
          Some of the legacy of Alain Colmerauer (Re: FYI: Peter Aczel Memorial Conference [10th September 2025]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 19:10 +0200
  Looks like sorting of rational trees needs an existential type (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 13:57 +0200
    LLMs / Autoencoders could profit for Bisimulation Quotienting (Re: Looks like sorting of rational trees needs an existential type) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 14:03 +0200
      Are you Geh? From bi-simulation to bi-similarity (Was: LLMs / Autoencoders could profit for Bisimulation Quotienting) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 15:18 +0200
        Quite vibrant logic history one can experience right now! (Re: Are you Geh? From bi-simulation to bi-similarity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 19:14 +0200
  The Prolog Community is extremly embarrassing (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-25 21:27 +0200
    Non-Wellfounded and Russell Paradox, what is your opinion? (Re: The Prolog Community is extremly embarrassing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-25 21:38 +0200
      Unfinished Bimbo Stuff: 4.1. Trees as terms (Re: Non-Wellfounded and Russell Paradox, what is your opinion?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-25 23:03 +0200
        Gold medal waiting for the crankiest of cranks (Was: Unfinished Bimbo Stuff: 4.1. Trees as terms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-26 16:10 +0200
          Old School Logicians waste time with compare/3 ? (Was: Gold medal waiting for the crankiest of cranks) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-26 16:17 +0200
            Is compare/3 a sunflower study subject? (Was: Old School Logicians waste time with compare/3 ?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-26 16:36 +0200
  Lattent Thinking the forbidden Fruit (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-02 11:58 +0100
  Latent Thinking the forbidden Fruit (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-02 12:19 +0100
    Fully automated AI researcher in your team? (Re: Latent Thinking the forbidden Fruit) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-02 13:20 +0100

csiph-web