Re: SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player)

From	Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.prolog
Subject	Re: SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player)
Date	2025-06-23 18:44 +0200
Message-ID	<103c09v$168hc$2@solani.org> (permalink)
References	<vpceij$is1s$1@solani.org> <103bos1$164mt$1@solani.org> <103bpdh$164t1$1@solani.org> <103bqc8$165f2$1@solani.org> <103c072$168hc$1@solani.org>

Show all headers | View raw

Since it has a double hook, works fine simultaneously:

?- set_portray_text(enabled, false).
true.

?- X = [a,b,c].
X = [a, b, c].

?- X = [0'a,0'b,0'c].
X = [97, 98, 99].

And then:

?- set_prolog_flag(double_quotes, codes).
true.

?- set_prolog_flag(back_quotes, chars).
true.

?- set_portray_text(enabled, true).
true.

?- X = [a,b,c].
X = `abc`.

?- X = [0'a,0'b,0'c].
X = "abc".

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Even the SWI-Prolog master not wide awake,
> doing day-sleeping.
> 
>  > I don’t know whether they realised that you
>  > cannot meaningfully support both in the same
>  > system and surely not in the same application.
> 
> Maybe you didn’t notice this nifty detail.
> Thats all you need:
> 
>  > The ISO core standard is silent about a flag back_quotes
> 
>  > Its more a naming problem. Have two libraries
> library(portray_codes) and library(portray_chars),
> Or one library(portray_text).
> 
> Just add one more rule:
> 
> user:portray(Chars) :-
>      portray_text_option(enabled, true),
>      '$skip_list'(Length, Chars, _Tail),
>      portray_text_option(min_length, MinLen),
>      Length >= MinLen,
>      mostly_chars(Chars, 0.9),
>      portray_text_option(ellipsis, IfLonger),
>      quote2(C),
>      put_code(C),
>      maplist(char_code, Chars, Codes),
>      (   Length > IfLonger
>      ->  First is IfLonger - 5,
>          Skip is Length - 5,
>          skip_first(Skip, Codes, Rest),
>          put_n_codes(First, Codes, C),
>          format('...', [])
>      ;   Rest = Codes
>      ),
>      put_var_codes(Rest, C),
>      put_code(C).
> 
> The use of maplist/3 is elegant, and works since we do
> not print open lists, right?
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The most radical approach is Novacore from
>> Dogelog Player. It consists of the following
>> major incisions in the ISO core standard:
>>
>> - We do not forbid chars, like for example
>>    using lists of the form [a,b,c], we also
>>    provide char_code/2 predicate bidirectionally.
>>
>> - We do not provide and _chars built-in
>>    predicates also there is nothing _strings. The
>>    Prolog system is clever enough to not put
>>    every atom it sees in an atom table. There
>>    is only a predicate table.
>>
>> - Some host languages have garbage collection that
>>    deduplicates Strings. For example some Java
>>    versions have an options to do that. But we
>>    do not have any efforts to deduplicate atoms,
>>    which are simply plain strings.
>>
>> - Some languages have constant pools. For example
>>    the Java byte code format includes a constant
>>    pool in every class header. We do not do that
>>    during transpilation , but we could of course.
>>    But it begs the question, why only deduplicate
>>    strings and not other constant expressions as well?
>>
>> - We are totally happy that we have only codes,
>>    there are chances that the host languages use
>>    tagged pointers to represent them. So they
>>    are represented similar to the tagged pointers
>>    in SWI-Prolog which works for small integers.
>>
>> - But the tagged pointer argument is moot,
>>    since atom length=1 entities can be also
>>    represented as tagged pointers, and some
>>    programming languages do that. Dogelog Player
>>    would use such tagged pointers without
>>    poluting the atom table.
>>
>> - What else?
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>
>>> Technically SWI-Prolog doesn't prefer codes.
>>> Library `library(pure_input)` might prefer codes.
>>> But this is again an issue of improving the
>>> library by some non existent SWI-Prolog community.
>>>
>>> The ISO core standard is silent about a flag
>>> back_quotes, but has a lot of API requirements
>>> that support both codes and chars, for example it
>>> requires atom_codes/2 and atom_chars/2.
>>>
>>> Implementation wise there can be an issue,
>>> like one might decide to implement the atoms
>>> of length=1 more efficiently, since with Unicode
>>> there is now an explosion.
>>>
>>> Not sure whether Trealla Prolog and Scryer
>>> Prolog thought about this problem, that the
>>> atom table gets quite large. Whereas codes don't
>>> eat the atom table. Maybe they forbit predicates
>>>
>>> that have an atom of length=1 head:
>>>
>>> h(X) :-
>>>      write('Hello '), write(X), write('!'), nl.
>>>
>>> Does this still work?
>>>
>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>> Concerning library(portray_text) which is in limbo:
>>>>
>>>>  > Libraries are (often) written for either
>>>> and thus the libraries make the choice.
>>>>
>>>> But who writes these libraries? The SWI Prolog
>>>> community. And who doesn’t improve these libraries,
>>>> instead floods the web with workaround tips?
>>>> The SWI Prolog community.
>>>>
>>>> Conclusion the SWI-Prolog community has itself
>>>> trapped in an ancient status quo, creating an island.
>>>> Cannot improve its own tooling, is not willing
>>>> to support code from else where that uses chars.
>>>>
>>>> Same with the missed AI Boom.
>>>>
>>>> (*) Code from elsewhere is dangerous, People
>>>> might use other Prolog systems than only SWI-Prolog,
>>>> like for exampe Trealla Prolog and Scryer Prolog.
>>>>
>>>> (**) Keeping the status quo is comfy. No need to
>>>> think in terms of programm code. Its like biology
>>>> teachers versus pathology staff, biology teachers
>>>> do not everyday see opened corpses.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>>>
>>>>> Inductive logic programming at 30
>>>>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.10556
>>>>>
>>>>> The paper contains not a single reference to autoencoders!
>>>>> Still they show this example:
>>>>>
>>>>> Fig. 1 ILP systems struggle with structured examples that
>>>>> exhibit observational noise. All three examples clearly
>>>>> spell the word "ILP", with some alterations: 3 noisy pixels,
>>>>> shifted and elongated letters. If we would be to learn a
>>>>> program that simply draws "ILP" in the middle of the picture,
>>>>> without noisy pixels and elongated letters, that would
>>>>> be a correct program.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess ILP is 30 years behind the AI boom. An early autoencoder
>>>>> turned into transformer was already reported here (*):
>>>>>
>>>>> SERIAL ORDER, Michael I. Jordan - May 1986
>>>>> https://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~gary/PAPER-SUGGESTIONS/Jordan-TR-8604-OCRed.pdf 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well ILP might have its merits, maybe we should not ask
>>>>> for a marriage of LLM and Prolog, but Autoencoders and ILP.
>>>>> But its tricky, I am still trying to decode the da Vinci code of
>>>>>
>>>>> things like stacked tensors, are they related to k-literal clauses?
>>>>> The paper I referenced is found in this excellent video:
>>>>>
>>>>> The Making of ChatGPT (35 Year History)
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFS90-FX6pg
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Thread

Prolog totally missed the AI Boom Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-22 13:05 +0100
  Auto-Encoders as Prolog Fact Stores (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-22 22:51 +0100
    Ignorance in ILP circles confirmed (Was: Auto-Encoders as Prolog Fact Stores) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-02-23 18:33 +0100
    Neuro infused logic programming [NILP] (Was: Auto-Encoders as Prolog Fact Stores) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-19 20:58 +0100
  Last Exit Analogical Resoning (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-07 18:16 +0100
  A software engineering analyis why Prolog fails (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-25 12:22 +0100
    Lets re-iterate software engineering first! (Was: A software engineering analyis why Prolog fails) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-27 11:42 +0100
      Re: Lets re-iterate software engineering first! (Was: A software engineering analyis why Prolog fails) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-27 11:43 +0100
  No Coders completely Brain Dead (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 16:37 +0200
    Unicode and atom length=1 (Was: No Coders completely Brain Dead) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 16:47 +0200
      Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player (Was: Unicode and atom length=1) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 17:03 +0200
        SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 18:43 +0200
          Re: SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 18:44 +0200
          The beauty of a double hook (Was: SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 18:45 +0200
          The beauty of a dual use hook (Was: SWI-Prolog master not wide awake, doing day-sleeping) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 19:01 +0200
            maplist(char_code, Chars, Codes) is bidirectional (Was: The beauty of a dual use hook) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 19:17 +0200
              I really have lost all hope and given up (Was: maplist(char_code, Chars, Codes) is bidirectional) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 19:31 +0200
        Do Prologers know the Unicode Range? (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-27 13:21 +0200
          Can Prologers produce 100% Prolog Code? (Was: Do Prologers know the Unicode Range?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-27 13:22 +0200
            Attention: Python versus Java (Was: Can Prologers produce 100% Prolog Code?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-27 13:36 +0200
        Is there a Swiss Army Knife of launching a Prolog system (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-13 15:17 +0200
          An -e option could be the more rational choice (Was: Is there a Swiss Army Knife of launching a Prolog system) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-13 15:19 +0200
        Prolog Cycle detection in the Top-Level (Was: Most radical approach is Novacore from Dogelog Player) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-20 13:39 +0200
          What does SWI-Prolog / Ciao Prolog produce? (Was: Prolog Cycle detection in the Top-Level) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-20 13:43 +0200
  Do not give dogs what is holy [Matthew 7:6] (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 20:33 +0200
    Typo:: Do not give dogs what is holy [Matthew 7:6] (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 20:38 +0200
      What WG17 could do to prevent segregation [DEC-10 Prolog (10 November 1982)] (Was: Typo:: Do not give dogs what is holy) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 21:16 +0200
        Avoid the cheap tricks by Scryer Prolog (Was: What WG17 could do to prevent segregation [DEC-10 Prolog (10 November 1982)]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 22:19 +0200
          Why tuck the tail in front of a false Messias (Was: Avoid the cheap tricks by Scryer Prolog) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-23 22:20 +0200
  Missed the AI Boom because missed the Emojis (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-29 13:32 +0200
    Bonus in Trealla Prolog, different Tokenizer (Was: Missed the AI Boom because missed the Emojis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-29 13:36 +0200
  Science is not prepared for the AI Revolution (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-06-29 16:35 +0200
  Bart Demoen's amageddon revisited (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-09 01:55 +0200
    Long story short: Not everybody was blended by Bart Demoen (Was: Bart Demoen's amageddon revisited) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-09 02:08 +0200
      On last sample: Barty Boy in full swing (Re: Long story short: Not everybody was blended by Bart Demoen) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-09 02:12 +0200
        I hope he doesn't get a heart attack (Was: On last sample: Barty Boy in full swing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-09 02:23 +0200
  Would Poincaré miss the AI Boom (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 19:17 +0200
    The ideal choice point as a logical formula (Was: Would Poincaré miss the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:22 +0200
      What is practical choice point eliminaton then? (Was: The ideal choice point as a logical formula) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:30 +0200
        Relation of the practical to the mathematical oracle (Was: What is practical choice point eliminaton then?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:35 +0200
          Should try semi-deep Prolog argument indexing (Was: Relation of the practical to the mathematical oracle) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:43 +0200
            Benefit and drawback: (Semi-)Deep indexing still rare! (Was: Should try semi-deep Prolog argument indexing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 21:58 +0200
              Does DCG standard [2025] say (Semi-)Deep indexing? (Was: Benefit and drawback: (Semi-)Deep indexing still rare!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-10 22:03 +0200
    Stack Overflow is declining, and GitHub might be next (Was: Would Poincaré miss the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 20:55 +0200
      GitHub 2.0: The no code companion repository (Was: Stack Overflow is declining, and GitHub might be next) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-15 21:15 +0200
    Gian-Carlo Rota’s legacy and modern AI (Was: Would Poincaré miss the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 12:00 +0200
  Will the world build on American Stacks? (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-14 15:55 +0200
    Analogy as a Core of Intelligence (Human & Artificial) (Re: Will the world build on American Stacks?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 12:14 +0200
      Alain Colmerauer Analogy : Rational Terms / Rational Numbers (Was: Analogy as a Core of Intelligence) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 14:33 +0200
        FYI: Peter Aczel Memorial Conference [10th September 2025] (Re: Alain Colmerauer Analogy : Rational Terms / Rational Numbers) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 14:57 +0200
          s/Coq/Rocq not found (Re: FYI: Peter Aczel Memorial Conference [10th September 2025]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 23:17 +0200
            Wonder Years are Over: Next Step Mars (Was: s/Coq/Rocq not found) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-17 23:36 +0200
          Some of the legacy of Alain Colmerauer (Re: FYI: Peter Aczel Memorial Conference [10th September 2025]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 19:10 +0200
  Looks like sorting of rational trees needs an existential type (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 13:57 +0200
    LLMs / Autoencoders could profit for Bisimulation Quotienting (Re: Looks like sorting of rational trees needs an existential type) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 14:03 +0200
      Are you Geh? From bi-simulation to bi-similarity (Was: LLMs / Autoencoders could profit for Bisimulation Quotienting) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 15:18 +0200
        Quite vibrant logic history one can experience right now! (Re: Are you Geh? From bi-simulation to bi-similarity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-23 19:14 +0200
  The Prolog Community is extremly embarrassing (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-25 21:27 +0200
    Non-Wellfounded and Russell Paradox, what is your opinion? (Re: The Prolog Community is extremly embarrassing) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-25 21:38 +0200
      Unfinished Bimbo Stuff: 4.1. Trees as terms (Re: Non-Wellfounded and Russell Paradox, what is your opinion?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-25 23:03 +0200
        Gold medal waiting for the crankiest of cranks (Was: Unfinished Bimbo Stuff: 4.1. Trees as terms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-26 16:10 +0200
          Old School Logicians waste time with compare/3 ? (Was: Gold medal waiting for the crankiest of cranks) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-26 16:17 +0200
            Is compare/3 a sunflower study subject? (Was: Old School Logicians waste time with compare/3 ?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-07-26 16:36 +0200
  Lattent Thinking the forbidden Fruit (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-02 11:58 +0100
  Latent Thinking the forbidden Fruit (Was: Prolog totally missed the AI Boom) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-02 12:19 +0100
    Fully automated AI researcher in your team? (Re: Latent Thinking the forbidden Fruit) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2025-11-02 13:20 +0100

csiph-web