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Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It?

From Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups comp.arch
Subject Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It?
Date 2025-05-27 18:40 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <10150vd$2orob$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (18 earlier) <1012lm8$23l9s$3@dont-email.me> <1012pf7$26ud3$2@dont-email.me> <1012qki$23l9t$3@dont-email.me> <1012ruo$26ud3$3@dont-email.me> <1012s7d$26ud3$4@dont-email.me>

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Chris M. Thomasson <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/26/2025 4:02 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 5/26/2025 3:40 PM, Stephen Fuld wrote:
>>> On 5/26/2025 3:20 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> On 5/26/2025 2:15 PM, Stephen Fuld wrote:
>>>>> On 5/26/2025 1:04 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/26/2025 1:00 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/26/2025 6:06 AM, Michael S wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2025 06:46:01 GMT
>>>>>>>> anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> Discs probably are less competitive than
>>>>>>>>>> motherboards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I expect them to be just as competetive as motherboards, at 
>>>>>>>>> least in
>>>>>>>>> the past.  The fact that there are only 2-3 surviving HDD
>>>>>>>>> manufacturers indicates intense competition in the past, 
>>>>>>>>> possible less
>>>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> but I would expect adding 256 MB to lead to 1
>>>>>>>>>> dollar or more increase of cost.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> What makes you think so.  The DRAM chips on DDR4 DIMMs today hold
>>>>>>>>> 512MB (x8->4GB DIMM) up to 2GB (x16->32GB DIMM).  There are 2GB 
>>>>>>>>> DDR3
>>>>>>>>> DIMMs (using 256MB chips), but they do not cost less than 4GB DDR3
>>>>>>>>> DIMMs.  Choosing a DRAM cache of 256MB rather than 512MB is 
>>>>>>>>> unlikely
>>>>>>>>> to save even one cent.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - anton
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You are projecting computer memory prices on very different market.
>>>>>>>> The memory used for HD cache is likely an individual memory chip 
>>>>>>>> or two
>>>>>>>> chips and likely several generation older than devices used in 
>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>> DIMMs. I would expect something like  x16  DDR3. Looking for 
>>>>>>>> price of
>>>>>>>> such devices on Mauser I see following figures:
>>>>>>>> 1 Gbit - $2.10
>>>>>>>> 2 Gbit - $2.60
>>>>>>>> 4 Gbit - $2.90
>>>>>>>> So, even assuming that disk manufacturer pays 1.5x to 2x less 
>>>>>>>> than what
>>>>>>>> we see on Mauser, there exists measurable difference between 128, 
>>>>>>>> 256
>>>>>>>> and 512 MB. The difference is smaller than suggested by Waldek 
>>>>>>>> but much
>>>>>>>> bigger than suggested by yourself.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I wonder if a HDD can have several multi-core processors on them, 
>>>>>>> where adding a new drive means you get not only more storage, but 
>>>>>>> more CPU's in the system like a NUMA machine? For some reason, the 
>>>>>>> AI's have a lot of "fun" when I talk to it about such 
>>>>>>> things... ;^) lol.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Or even, have some ram on there, say a couple of gigs. So, adding a 
>>>>>> new drive gives you more storage, more memory, and more cpus?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The CPU on the drive is not user programmable, and is almost 
>>>>> certainly not the same ISA as the "main" CPU in the system.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Can it be? 
>>> 
>>> Which, user programmable or same ISA? 
>> 
>> That's a hard one. Perhaps a special ISA for the bridge, but then again, 
>> it might be the same ISA as multiple multi-core chips on the HDD.
>> 
>> 
>>> No disk vendor would allow user programmability as it would void any 
>>> warranty, possibly corrupt data, etc.  As for same ISA, many years 
>>> ago, one vendor used an 80186, but today, any current X86 would be 
>>> overkill and too expensive for the job.
>> 
>> Ahh, well, then the same company that made the CPU's, GPU's, would be 
>> the same company that made these "special" HDD's? Pie in the sky, 
>> version 42... ;^) lol. Sorry.
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Almost akin to the SPU on playstation. Except, each SPU ha a
>>>> hard drive, many cpus, cores, threads, with dram and al that fun 
>>>> shit? Or too wacky? Or stupid in a sense? Well, how stupid on a scale 
>>>> from 0 to 1? ;^)
>>> 
>>> No comment.  :-)
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> LOL!!! However, this had, iirc, PPC for motherboard and a special vector 
>> language for the SPU's?
>> 
> 
> I think some games for the older Playstation did not even use the SPU's? 
> They just ran on the PPC's? Too hard to program for? DMA for feeding the 
> SPU's data?


The SPU’s were vector engines used for 3D transforms, the GPU was just a a
blit engine with no transform capabilities.

The main CPU was too slow for to do all the transformations and ship a
usable game that would pass Sony certification.

You could do a lot more with the SPU vector engines if you rewrote your
code, cloth physics, particles, etc, this is what the developers were
talking about.

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Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2025-05-10 11:38 +0000
  Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-11 00:04 +0000
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                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 08:46 -0700
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-28 12:08 -0400
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 09:20 -0700
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-28 12:52 -0400
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 10:15 -0700
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-28 14:16 -0400
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 13:37 -0700
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-28 22:28 +0000
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-28 16:00 -0700
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-29 14:23 +0000
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-29 09:56 -0400
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-29 01:54 +0000
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-28 12:32 -0400
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 13:36 -0700
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-26 23:26 +0000
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-26 20:31 +0000
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 13:45 -0700
                Re: fuzzy disks, Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-26 23:24 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-25 19:16 -0400
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-25 16:27 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-26 03:01 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-25 23:58 -0400
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-05-26 15:36 -1000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-26 20:14 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-26 07:13 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 07:31 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-26 19:20 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 14:12 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-30 01:42 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-29 20:25 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-30 05:53 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-05-31 12:53 -1000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-06-02 18:04 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-03 07:14 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-25 15:21 -0500
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-26 06:46 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-26 16:06 +0300
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-26 16:30 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 13:00 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 13:04 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 14:15 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 15:20 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 15:40 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 16:02 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 16:07 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-27 18:40 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 12:28 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 12:42 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-29 05:10 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-29 15:31 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Brett <ggtgp@yahoo.com> - 2025-05-30 01:17 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-29 15:33 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-27 12:28 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-26 23:12 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-26 23:32 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stephen Fuld <sfuld@alumni.cmu.edu.invalid> - 2025-05-26 19:00 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-05-27 09:43 +0200
                Drive Caches (Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-25 20:55 +0000
                Re: Drive Caches (Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, ...) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-26 00:07 -0400
                Re: Drive Caches (Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, ...) BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-26 00:59 -0500
                Re: Drive Caches (Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-26 07:13 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-23 22:19 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? EricP <ThatWouldBeTelling@thevillage.com> - 2025-05-23 20:51 -0400
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-17 23:57 +0000
  Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? quadibloc <quadibloc@gmail.com> - 2025-05-19 21:33 +0000
    Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-20 00:43 +0000
      Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-20 13:53 +0000
        Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 13:19 -0500
          Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-20 16:06 -0400
            Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-20 22:11 +0000
              Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> - 2025-05-20 19:34 -0500
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 01:00 +0000
              Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 00:34 +0000
              Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-05-20 21:30 -0400
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 18:39 -0700
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 03:41 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-05-21 12:09 -0400
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-21 15:30 -0400
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 02:45 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2025-05-21 07:06 -1000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? jseigh <jseigh_es00@xemaps.com> - 2025-05-21 17:32 -0400
              Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2025-05-21 07:05 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 02:48 +0000
              Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2025-05-21 08:23 -0400
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-21 14:08 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 02:49 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-22 17:34 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-22 17:42 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? mitchalsup@aol.com (MitchAlsup1) - 2025-05-23 01:54 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-22 22:42 +0000
                Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2025-05-22 23:47 -0400
            Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-21 00:32 +0000
              Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 18:29 -0700
          Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 18:04 -0700
            Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 16:49 -0700
              Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-22 18:04 -0700
  Re: Is Parallel Programming Hard, And, If So, What Can You Do About It? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 18:31 -0700

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