Groups > comp.theory > #119051

Re: How to write a self-referencial TM?

From	Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.theory
Subject	Re: How to write a self-referencial TM?
Date	2025-05-14 18:49 +0100
Organization	Fix this later
Message-ID	<1002l44$2k04b$3@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<1e4f1a15826e67e7faf7a3c2104d09e9dadc6f06.camel@gmail.com> <1002akp$2i4bk$2@dont-email.me> <479eebef3bd93e82c8fe363908b254b11d15a799.camel@gmail.com> <1002j0r$2k04b$1@dont-email.me> <3b177909de383fcf209cfb9ff81fe2f118640578.camel@gmail.com>

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On 14/05/2025 18:33, wij wrote:
> On Wed, 2025-05-14 at 18:14 +0100, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 14/05/2025 17:43, wij wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2025-05-14 at 09:51 -0500, olcott wrote:

<snip>

>>>
>>>> To make a TM that references itself the closest
>>>> thing is a UTM that simulates its own TM source-code.
>>>
>>> How does a UTM simulate its own TM source-code?
>>
>> It doesn't have to simulate anything. All it has to do is to
>> restore the state into which the programmer wishes to recurse.
> 
> So, when you say "A UTM simulates X", it means 'the UTM' doesn't have to do
> anything. So, 'UTM' is human (e.g. you), not a real TM?

No, it doesn't mean that.

> 
>> I've already shown how this can be done.
> 
> Where?
> 
Message-ID: <1001bmf$2ao7o$2@dont-email.me>

Here's the gist of that article...

Here's the tape:
[0]

current state: 0
content of the square being scanned: 0
new content of the square: 0
move left, right, or stay: stay
next state: 0

This TM functions by returning the state of the machine to its 
starting state.

The only functional difference between this code and yours is 
that yours will blow the stack. (Mine doesn't have a stack to blow.)

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

Thread

How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 13:13 +0800
  Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 07:02 +0100
  Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 09:51 -0500
    Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 00:43 +0800
      Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 18:14 +0100
        Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 01:33 +0800
          Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 18:49 +0100
            Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 02:01 +0800
              Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 19:38 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 13:00 -0700
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 15:02 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 21:19 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 21:16 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 13:49 -0700
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-14 21:13 +0000
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-15 10:24 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 22:28 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 14:40 -0700
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 23:02 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-05-15 01:09 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 17:19 -0700
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 09:38 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 09:58 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 10:11 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-15 00:55 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-15 10:17 +0300
      Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 12:24 -0500
        Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 01:39 +0800
          Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 12:45 -0500
            Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 02:13 +0800
        Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 01:53 +0800
          Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-15 17:08 +0100
            Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 11:47 -0500
              Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 03:57 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 15:50 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-16 10:33 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 10:43 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-16 12:10 -0400
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-17 11:58 +0300
              Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-15 19:37 -0400
              Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-16 10:27 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 10:40 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-19 10:21 +0200
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-19 13:39 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 23:41 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-21 11:47 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-21 07:11 -0400
            Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 02:49 +0800
              Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 14:15 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 04:08 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-16 10:45 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 10:47 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-16 21:34 +0200
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-16 10:40 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 10:44 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-17 12:02 +0300
              Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-16 01:40 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-16 01:59 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 09:47 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-16 03:26 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 19:40 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-16 16:33 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-17 03:35 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-16 23:51 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-17 11:01 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 22:12 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-17 11:23 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 22:40 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-17 11:49 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 22:58 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-17 09:02 -0400
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-17 15:45 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-18 03:26 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-17 14:39 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-18 11:20 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-19 04:35 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-18 15:57 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-18 17:45 -0400
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-19 05:46 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-18 17:09 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-19 06:35 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-18 19:09 -0400
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-19 07:54 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-19 13:52 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-19 13:48 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 23:36 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-21 11:56 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2025-05-18 15:58 -0600
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-18 17:08 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-18 19:19 -0400
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2025-05-18 21:21 -0600
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-18 23:07 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-19 09:54 +0200
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-19 15:29 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-20 23:33 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-21 12:03 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-21 07:16 -0400
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-21 21:43 +0200
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-21 14:49 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-23 13:03 +0200
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-19 13:44 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-19 13:41 +0300
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-17 20:46 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-17 14:55 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-17 16:07 -0400
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-05-16 12:22 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-16 16:57 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-05-16 21:04 +0100
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 15:38 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-17 05:21 +0800
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 16:40 -0500
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-16 20:32 -0400
                Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-16 17:59 -0400
        Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-16 10:24 +0300
          Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 10:37 -0500
  Re: How to write a self-referencial TM? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-15 10:07 +0300

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