Re: ot - snowden, the short version

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system
Subject	Re: ot - snowden, the short version
Date	2015-04-08 14:24 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<080420151424207960%nospam@nospam.invalid> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <080420151027468641%star@sky.net> <080420151049556091%nospam@nospam.invalid> <lYGdnUGBS5th27jInZ2dnUU7-LOdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <080420151147142426%nospam@nospam.invalid> <6o2dncZ9zdaew7jInZ2dnUU7-KOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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In article <6o2dncZ9zdaew7jInZ2dnUU7-KOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Kurt
Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > they're evesdropping on *everyone*, without any cause whatsoever,
> > collecting and saving all data just in case at some point in the future
> > there might be something of interest contained within it even though
> > there is no reason to do so now.
> 
> At least the stuff I have seen from Snowden doesn't (seem) to support 
> that. The metadata is a non-issue that has been in place (and litigated 
> to the satisfaction of the Supremes) since Smith V Maryland in late 70s 
> where the Supreme Court held that Smith had no reasonable expectation of 
> privacy in the numbers dialed from his phone because he voluntarily 
> transmitted them to his phone company, and because it is generally known 
> that phone companies keep such information in their business records.

that was put i place long before anyone had any idea what could be done
with the information. those business records were for billing purposes
not to collect and analyze.

today, all sorts of metadata is now included in what's collected, along
with the contents of emails, which is well beyond what was originally
thought of back then, and along with the data mining capabilities that
didn't exist back then either, a rather accurate picture of someone can
be created.

that crosses the line.

>    It is also well established that US laws only apply in the US and 
> that as long as a legal (or at least not illegal) wiretap is in place, 
> whoever calls that number is fair game (Goomba one has a tap on the line 
> and Goomba two calls to report that the hit was successful. Both can be 
> prosecuted on the basis of the call even though the paper work was on 
> G1's phone). 
>
>     In this case any tap placed on any phone outside the US is legal (or 
> at least not illegal). Thus if someone from the US calls terrorist 1 in 
> the Middle East somewhere (or vice versa) this is generally can be used 
> even against the local even if originated inside the US. Just as long as 
> the tapped phone itself is not within the US). 

except they're wiretapping *all* calls, emails and much more,
regardless of origin or destination and without any reason to do so.

Thread

ot - snowden, the short version "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-04-06 17:16 -0400
  Re: ot - snowden, the short version Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-04-06 20:50 -0400
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2015-04-06 20:13 -0700
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2015-04-06 20:14 -0700
      Re: ot - snowden, the short version dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-07 15:52 +1000
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-07 15:51 +1000
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2015-04-07 14:47 +0200
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-07 09:37 -0400
      Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-07 13:20 -0400
        Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-07 13:27 -0400
          Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-07 15:46 -0400
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2015-04-07 16:25 -0400
              Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-07 17:35 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2015-04-07 20:13 -0400
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-07 18:58 -0400
        Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 03:11 +0000
          Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-07 23:34 -0400
          Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-07 23:56 -0400
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2015-04-08 09:31 +0200
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 12:51 +0000
          Re: ot - snowden, the short version Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-04-08 10:27 -0400
            Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-08 10:49 -0400
              Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 15:59 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-08 08:37 -0700
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 14:12 -0400
              Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 11:19 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-08 11:47 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 12:57 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 18:09 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 13:56 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 19:02 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 16:50 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 22:00 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 19:56 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-04-08 21:14 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 21:32 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-04-08 14:11 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-08 14:24 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-08 16:57 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 15:35 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 10:37 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2015-04-08 21:25 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 21:45 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2015-04-09 09:26 +0200
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 12:44 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 10:06 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 15:25 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Raymond Wiker <rwiker@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 17:57 +0200
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-08 19:05 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 21:49 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 10:33 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-09 13:23 +0100
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 12:46 +0000
              Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 11:23 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 16:32 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-08 08:46 -0700
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-08 18:08 +0000
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 14:09 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-04-08 15:52 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-08 16:46 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2015-04-08 17:57 -0400
                Re: ot - snowden, the short version Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-08 20:05 -0700
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-04-07 11:30 -0400
    Re: ot - snowden, the short version Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> - 2015-04-07 10:29 -0700

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