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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-11 > #15897
| Subject | Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.comp.os.windows-11, comp.os.linux.advocacy |
| References | (4 earlier) <fs2dP.96724$EYNf.67582@fx11.iad> <cje9njhgqkjdm4bhrvkjkvbttt0b5u6bu3@4ax.com> <vl3dlu$2ov5h$10@dont-email.me> <DybdP.12357$h3%7.10023@fx02.iad> <vl3iv9$2q80t$4@dont-email.me> |
| From | Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> |
| Message-ID | <%RcdP.212934$DYF8.25570@fx14.iad> (permalink) |
| Organization | usenet-news.net |
| Date | 2025-01-01 10:06 -0500 |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 2025-01-01 09:20, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: > Andrzej Matuch wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: > >> On 2025-01-01 07:50, Chris Ahlstrom wrote: >>> Joel wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: >>> >>>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> We all have reasons to switch to Linux. When you're window shopping as >>>>>>> most of us are when it comes to the operating system, it's hard to find >>>>>>> the motivation to stick to it when we encounter the first few bugs. In >>>>>>> your case, it was how slow 11 was making your new hardware feel; for me, >>>>>>> it was the knowledge that the corporations involved had no interest in >>>>>>> fixing a three-year-old bug that made using the operating system >>>>>>> intolerable. >>>>>> >>>>>> Win11 23H2 was overweight, on a machine that was ideal to upgrade to >>>>>> Win11 21H2. That is just ridiculous. Two years. Is that an >>>>>> eternity, or something? I like Microsoft in the abstract, I think >>>>>> they're innovators, I think they do some useful things. But that is >>>>>> irrelevant to my enjoyment of my machine. Win11 outgrew it in *no >>>>>> time*. >>>>> >>>>> In exchange for manufacturers bundling Windows with every one of their >>>>> machines, Microsoft agrees to bloat the operating system artificially to >>>>> encourage users to upgrade more frequently. >>>>> >>>>> It's long been a theory but I would love to someone to tell me that it >>>>> is far-fetched. >>>> >>>> Boom. >>> >>> That's the origin of the term "Wintel" IIRC. >> >> Windows = Win >> Intel = tel >> >> That's the origin. It has nothing to do with bloat. > > It has to do with the symbiotic relationship of the two companies, and yes, > bloat did have something to do with it. IMHO. I won't deny the symbiotic relationship between the two, but I don't believe that it was any kind of conspiracy behind it. Intel was making the x86 chips, and IBM and Microsoft's software ran on that platform. While AMD worked for Intel to produce x86 chips and even after they no longer worked together, Microsoft ran just as well on AMD's x86 chips. People have always criticized the x86 platform for not being as good a the RISC variants, but it doesn't mean that there wasn't a need for x86. -- Andrzej (Andre) Matuch Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41 KDE supporting member
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This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:08 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 15:19 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2024-12-31 15:41 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 21:09 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:40 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 22:14 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 22:16 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 22:46 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:50 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-01 08:37 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 09:20 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-01 10:06 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 23:31 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-01 19:26 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:14 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-01 09:38 -0600
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Gregg Fowler <totsob@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-01 14:45 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-01 10:20 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 11:42 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:28 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 14:34 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-01 18:17 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 18:30 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-01 19:23 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 20:10 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 08:32 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 19:00 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 15:04 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 15:18 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:10 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 23:46 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 08:58 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:11 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 23:38 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 18:54 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-01 19:28 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 23:59 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 00:16 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:31 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 18:21 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:55 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 10:18 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 21:25 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 13:06 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 09:48 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:28 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 21:16 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:44 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 13:29 -0700
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 08:55 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:22 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 15:04 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 01:58 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 22:12 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 08:41 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 07:16 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:24 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 15:38 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:36 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-03 06:13 -0600
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 13:47 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 21:26 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 20:24 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-04 06:43 -0600
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:20 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 13:47 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 13:16 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:26 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 14:35 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:15 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:47 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 20:20 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:21 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 18:50 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:57 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:41 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 10:37 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 10:28 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 20:19 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 15:24 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-01 21:14 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 17:10 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:19 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:12 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:26 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 23:53 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 21:54 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 22:42 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:29 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-02 18:39 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:56 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 10:18 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 21:27 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-01-26 19:07 +1100
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-27 17:14 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:45 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-01 01:27 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:33 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 13:45 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-01-02 13:50 +0100
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 09:47 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 10:37 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 05:20 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-03 16:48 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:32 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-05 01:39 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:43 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:45 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-01-08 00:00 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 14:14 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:15 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-05 22:29 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 06:29 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-01-08 00:09 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:24 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:44 -0500
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 09:02 -0700
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:48 +0000
Re: This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- If Your Time Is Worth Nothing Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:07 +0000
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