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| Started by | Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-09-28 21:36 +0100 |
| Last post | 2026-09-30 18:18 +0100 |
| Articles | 15 — 5 participants |
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Area codes in Cumbria Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-28 21:36 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-09-28 22:34 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-29 09:22 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-29 21:12 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-09-29 21:23 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-30 09:27 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:19 +0200
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-09-30 10:37 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-30 18:21 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-30 18:47 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2026-09-30 21:44 +0200
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2026-09-30 21:02 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2026-09-30 22:43 +0200
Re: Area codes in Cumbria The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 15:59 +0100
Re: Area codes in Cumbria Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-30 18:18 +0100
| From | Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-28 21:36 +0100 |
| Subject | Area codes in Cumbria |
| Message-ID | <3hjlbl9ce42u3jfmldjqpe7emas6780m71@4ax.com> |
I was on holiday in Cumbria last week when I noticed that some of the STD (area) codes contain 6 digits. I understood that STD codes were normally 3 digits (London 020), 4 digits for large cities (eg 0141) or 5 digits. Why 6? Does this mean local calls can be made using 5 digits?
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| From | Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-28 22:34 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <82o6dhukku.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #39683 |
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes: > I was on holiday in Cumbria last week when I noticed that some of the > STD (area) codes contain 6 digits. I understood that STD codes were > normally 3 digits (London 020), 4 digits for large cities (eg 0141) or > 5 digits. Why 6? Does this mean local calls can be made using 5 > digits? There are quite a few examples of six digit area codes in this document. Not that it answers your question. A cluster of them here: 017683 Appleby Y Y 017684 Pooley Bridge Y Y 017687 Keswick Y Y Appendix A: Geographic Numbering - Geographic Area Codes and applicable geographic area https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/other/national-numbering-plan.pdf
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| From | Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-29 09:22 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <68tmbllq7bl5ubvj1b34tp1s5ieqfgvob0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #39684 |
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:34:09 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: >Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes: > >> I was on holiday in Cumbria last week when I noticed that some of the >> STD (area) codes contain 6 digits. I understood that STD codes were >> normally 3 digits (London 020), 4 digits for large cities (eg 0141) or >> 5 digits. Why 6? Does this mean local calls can be made using 5 >> digits? > >There are quite a few examples of six digit area codes in this >document. Not that it answers your question. > >A cluster of them here: > >017683 Appleby Y Y >017684 Pooley Bridge Y Y >017687 Keswick Y Y All in Cumbria, I see. > >Appendix A: Geographic >Numbering - Geographic Area >Codes and applicable geographic >area > >https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/other/national-numbering-plan.pdf Thanks. I'll look at this with interest later on.
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| From | Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-29 21:12 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <5q6obllkrandj210r4b20t8k80a46p2o1d@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #39684 |
On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:34:09 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: [snip] >https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/other/national-numbering-plan.pdf 1. I didn't know Telex still existed (page 15) 2. Just skimming through, the 6 digit codes seem to be in Cumbria
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| From | Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-29 21:23 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <82v77nkdrg.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #39687 |
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes: > On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:34:09 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: > [snip] >>https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/other/national-numbering-plan.pdf > > 1. I didn't know Telex still existed (page 15) > 2. Just skimming through, the 6 digit codes seem to be in Cumbria Claude says: 013873 Langholm Scotland (Dumfries and Galloway) 015242 Hornby Lancashire (Lune Valley, near Lancaster) The rest of them are in Cumbria.
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| From | Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 09:27 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <cqhpbltgc1ftghpi7kfrirs28dfro21a5m@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #39688 |
On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 21:23:47 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: >Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes: > >> On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:34:09 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: >> [snip] >>>https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/other/national-numbering-plan.pdf >> >> 1. I didn't know Telex still existed (page 15) >> 2. Just skimming through, the 6 digit codes seem to be in Cumbria > >Claude says: > >013873 Langholm Scotland (Dumfries and Galloway) >015242 Hornby Lancashire (Lune Valley, near Lancaster) > >The rest of them are in Cumbria. Thanks. It was a quick skim on my part, as I mentioned. Could Langholm and Hornby be 'serviced' out of Cumbria? This seems to be a bit of a coincidence. Why would a small number of exchanges have 6-digit STD codes?
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| From | David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 11:19 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <119ik7o$2tnq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #39689 |
On 30/09/2026 10:27, Scott wrote: > On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 21:23:47 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: > >> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes: >> >>> On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:34:09 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: >>> [snip] >>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/other/national-numbering-plan.pdf >>> >>> 1. I didn't know Telex still existed (page 15) It doesn't. >>> 2. Just skimming through, the 6 digit codes seem to be in Cumbria >> >> Claude says: >> >> 013873 Langholm Scotland (Dumfries and Galloway) >> 015242 Hornby Lancashire (Lune Valley, near Lancaster) >> >> The rest of them are in Cumbria. > > Thanks. It was a quick skim on my part, as I mentioned. Could Langholm > and Hornby be 'serviced' out of Cumbria? This seems to be a bit of a > coincidence. Why would a small number of exchanges have 6-digit STD > codes? Don't theses things all "vanish" at the end of the year? When everyone is on VOIP it doesn't matter where they are serviced from. OFCOM says it intends to maintain the link between "area codes" but permit "out of area use" but I am not sure what the rules are. Dave
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| From | Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 10:37 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <82v77nkrln.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #39690 |
David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> writes: > On 30/09/2026 10:27, Scott wrote: >> On Tue, 29 Sep 2026 21:23:47 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: >> >>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes: >>> >>>> On Mon, 28 Sep 2026 22:34:09 +0100, Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote: >>>> [snip] >>>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/numbering/other/national-numbering-plan.pdf >>>> >>>> 1. I didn't know Telex still existed (page 15) > > It doesn't. > >>>> 2. Just skimming through, the 6 digit codes seem to be in Cumbria >>> >>> Claude says: >>> >>> 013873 Langholm Scotland (Dumfries and Galloway) >>> 015242 Hornby Lancashire (Lune Valley, near Lancaster) >>> >>> The rest of them are in Cumbria. >> Thanks. It was a quick skim on my part, as I mentioned. Could >> Langholm >> and Hornby be 'serviced' out of Cumbria? This seems to be a bit of a >> coincidence. Why would a small number of exchanges have 6-digit STD >> codes? > > Don't theses things all "vanish" at the end of the year? When everyone > is on VOIP it doesn't matter where they are serviced from. OFCOM says > it intends to maintain the link between "area codes" but permit "out > of area use" but I am not sure what the rules are. > > Dave B3.1.1 mentions this. "A Geographic Number shall be assigned only to a Subscriber whose Network Termination Point is physically located within the geographic area associated with that number (having regard to the relevant Geographic Area Code), unless: "a. the Subscriber has requested a Geographic Number that includes the relevant Geographic Area Code; and "b. charges for calls to that Geographic Number remain consistent with charges for calls to other Geographic Numbers that include the same Geographic Area Code. " According to Claude this facility goes back a long way, 2011 or 2003 maybe, but documents are not available from before that (when Oftel was the regulator).
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 18:21 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ni4uokFhrfhU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #39691 |
Richmond wrote: > B3.1.1 mentions this. > > "A Geographic Number shall be assigned only to a Subscriber whose Network > Termination Point is physically located within the geographic area > associated with that number (having regard to the relevant Geographic > Area Code), unless: > > "a. the Subscriber has requested a Geographic Number that includes the > relevant Geographic Area Code; and > > "b. charges for calls to that Geographic Number remain consistent with > charges for calls to other Geographic Numbers that include the same > Geographic Area Code." > > According to Claude this facility goes back a long way, 2011 or 2003 > maybe, but documents are not available from before that (when Oftel was > the regulator). A lot earlier (1970s?) weren't they called "out of area numbers" and pretty expensive, ISTR charged by distance of chosen exchange from the location's natural exchange.
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| From | Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 18:47 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1oiqbldt8ivnatl9vsh2f3qmongd9is1rl@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #39695 |
On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 18:21:22 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote: >Richmond wrote: > >> B3.1.1 mentions this. >> >> "A Geographic Number shall be assigned only to a Subscriber whose Network >> Termination Point is physically located within the geographic area >> associated with that number (having regard to the relevant Geographic >> Area Code), unless: >> >> "a. the Subscriber has requested a Geographic Number that includes the >> relevant Geographic Area Code; and >> >> "b. charges for calls to that Geographic Number remain consistent with >> charges for calls to other Geographic Numbers that include the same >> Geographic Area Code." >> >> According to Claude this facility goes back a long way, 2011 or 2003 >> maybe, but documents are not available from before that (when Oftel was >> the regulator). > >A lot earlier (1970s?) weren't they called "out of area numbers" and >pretty expensive, ISTR charged by distance of chosen exchange from the >location's natural exchange. IIRC there was a huge cost if you wanted an 0171 number when you lived in 0181.
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| From | David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 21:44 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <119joqh$hhlo$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #39696 |
On 30/09/2026 19:47, Scott wrote: > On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 18:21:22 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> > wrote: > >> Richmond wrote: >> >>> B3.1.1 mentions this. >>> >>> "A Geographic Number shall be assigned only to a Subscriber whose Network >>> Termination Point is physically located within the geographic area >>> associated with that number (having regard to the relevant Geographic >>> Area Code), unless: >>> >>> "a. the Subscriber has requested a Geographic Number that includes the >>> relevant Geographic Area Code; and >>> >>> "b. charges for calls to that Geographic Number remain consistent with >>> charges for calls to other Geographic Numbers that include the same >>> Geographic Area Code." >>> >>> According to Claude this facility goes back a long way, 2011 or 2003 >>> maybe, but documents are not available from before that (when Oftel was >>> the regulator). >> >> A lot earlier (1970s?) weren't they called "out of area numbers" and >> pretty expensive, ISTR charged by distance of chosen exchange from the >> location's natural exchange. > > IIRC there was a huge cost if you wanted an 0171 number when you lived > in 0181. This is no longer the case. For example:- https://www.voipfone.co.uk/support/guides/numbers/telephone-numbers#geographic However, with Internet Telephony you can choose ANY geographical number, no matter where you are actually located. You could finally finish up in Calcutta! And, of course, if the number is called by another Voipfone customer, the call is totally free. There are many uses for these numbers; the obvious one being that a business can have a prestigious telephone address whilst being somewhere else entirely. You can also now move your office to anywhere in the world and keep this telephone number. For the personal user, it means that if you have moved abroad but still have family in the UK you could take a number for the town your relative lives in, they can then make ordinary calls to you, no matter where in the world you are, for the cost of a local call. .. although I believe rules are being put in place to ensure UK numbers are only accesible from the UK Dave
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| From | Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 21:02 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <82ik3mld8f.fsf@example.com> |
| In reply to | #39697 |
David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> writes: > On 30/09/2026 19:47, Scott wrote: >> On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 18:21:22 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> >> wrote: >> >>> Richmond wrote: >>> >>>> B3.1.1 mentions this. >>>> >>>> "A Geographic Number shall be assigned only to a Subscriber whose >>>> Network Termination Point is physically located within the >>>> geographic area associated with that number (having regard to the >>>> relevant Geographic Area Code), unless: >>>> >>>> "a. the Subscriber has requested a Geographic Number that includes >>>> the relevant Geographic Area Code; and >>>> >>>> "b. charges for calls to that Geographic Number remain consistent >>>> with charges for calls to other Geographic Numbers that include the >>>> same Geographic Area Code." >>>> >>>> According to Claude this facility goes back a long way, 2011 or >>>> 2003 maybe, but documents are not available from before that (when >>>> Oftel was the regulator). >>> >>> A lot earlier (1970s?) weren't they called "out of area numbers" and >>> pretty expensive, ISTR charged by distance of chosen exchange from >>> the location's natural exchange. >> IIRC there was a huge cost if >>> you wanted an 0171 number when you >> lived >> in 0181. > > This is no longer the case. For example:- > > https://www.voipfone.co.uk/support/guides/numbers/telephone-numbers#geographic > > However, with Internet Telephony you can choose ANY geographical > number, no matter where you are actually located. You could finally > finish up in Calcutta! And, of course, if the number is called by > another Voipfone customer, the call is totally free. > > There are many uses for these numbers; the obvious one being that a > business can have a prestigious telephone address whilst being > somewhere else entirely. You can also now move your office to anywhere > in the world and keep this telephone number. > > For the personal user, it means that if you have moved abroad but > still have family in the UK you could take a number for the town your > relative lives in, they can then make ordinary calls to you, no matter > where in the world you are, for the cost of a local call. > > .. although I believe rules are being put in place to ensure UK > numbers are only accesible from the UK > > Dave You've gone around in a circle there I think. Not everyone is on VOIP yet. We were discussing the current and historical rules.
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| From | David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 22:43 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <119js92$hhlo$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #39698 |
On 30/09/2026 22:02, Richmond wrote: > David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> writes: > >> On 30/09/2026 19:47, Scott wrote: >>> On Wed, 30 Sep 2026 18:21:22 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>>> B3.1.1 mentions this. >>>>> >>>>> "A Geographic Number shall be assigned only to a Subscriber whose >>>>> Network Termination Point is physically located within the >>>>> geographic area associated with that number (having regard to the >>>>> relevant Geographic Area Code), unless: >>>>> >>>>> "a. the Subscriber has requested a Geographic Number that includes >>>>> the relevant Geographic Area Code; and >>>>> >>>>> "b. charges for calls to that Geographic Number remain consistent >>>>> with charges for calls to other Geographic Numbers that include the >>>>> same Geographic Area Code." >>>>> >>>>> According to Claude this facility goes back a long way, 2011 or >>>>> 2003 maybe, but documents are not available from before that (when >>>>> Oftel was the regulator). >>>> >>>> A lot earlier (1970s?) weren't they called "out of area numbers" and >>>> pretty expensive, ISTR charged by distance of chosen exchange from >>>> the location's natural exchange. >> IIRC there was a huge cost if >>>> you wanted an 0171 number when you >> lived >> in 0181. >> >> This is no longer the case. For example:- >> >> https://www.voipfone.co.uk/support/guides/numbers/telephone-numbers#geographic >> >> However, with Internet Telephony you can choose ANY geographical >> number, no matter where you are actually located. You could finally >> finish up in Calcutta! And, of course, if the number is called by >> another Voipfone customer, the call is totally free. >> >> There are many uses for these numbers; the obvious one being that a >> business can have a prestigious telephone address whilst being >> somewhere else entirely. You can also now move your office to anywhere >> in the world and keep this telephone number. >> >> For the personal user, it means that if you have moved abroad but >> still have family in the UK you could take a number for the town your >> relative lives in, they can then make ordinary calls to you, no matter >> where in the world you are, for the cost of a local call. >> >> .. although I believe rules are being put in place to ensure UK >> numbers are only accesible from the UK >> >> Dave > > You've gone around in a circle there I think. Not everyone is on VOIP > yet. We were discussing the current and historical rules. True, for the next few four months, but on the 31st January, or very soon after everyone will be on VOIP. Just for info there were according to this page:- https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2026/09/openreach-confirm-post-january-2027-measures-for-uk-analogue-phone-switch-off.html one week ago, still 1.2 million out of 16.2 million lines not on VOIP . However they are migrating 44,000 per week by the 31st January 2027 POTS will be switched off and and EVERYONE will be on some kind of VOIP service. For most this will be conventional VOIP but for a few this will be by a kind of "off-premises" VOIP known as Emergency Voice Access (eVAC) where there is an ATA in the exchange driving a copper circuit to the premises:- https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2026/04/openreach-pilot-emergency-uk-phone-lines-for-2027-analogue-switch-off.html Apart from being charged a very expensive 35 quid a month for this service, I assume to encourage users to switch it works like "on-premises" VOIP with a local ATA. Users have to dial the full STD number so any "Exchange Code" is a pure illusion. Dave
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-01 15:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <119lsgj$197ru$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #39697 |
On 30/09/2026 20:44, David Wade wrote: > However, with Internet Telephony you can choose ANY geographical number, > no matter where you are actually located. You could finally finish up in > Calcutta! And many of them do... -- You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. Al Capone
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-30 18:18 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ni4uisFhobkU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #39690 |
David Wade wrote: > Don't theses things all "vanish" at the end of the year? Near enough (end of January).
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