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"'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number"

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  "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-03 12:27 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 10:47 -0500
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Rance <david@SPAMOFF.invalid> - 2025-03-03 17:13 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-03 17:33 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Rance <david@SPAMOFF.invalid> - 2025-03-03 18:20 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-03 15:54 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 17:25 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 14:04 -0500
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 19:28 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:36 +0100
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:35 +0100
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 17:35 -0500
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-04 02:49 +0100
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 08:07 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 21:38 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 17:31 -0500
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 08:13 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-04 08:09 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-04 16:22 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 21:09 +0000
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-04 19:43 -0500
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 05:34 +0000
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:22 -0500
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 16:15 +0000
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 09:44 +0100
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:15 +0100
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:47 -0500
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 14:27 +0000
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 10:42 -0500
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 16:51 +0000
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 17:21 +0000
                                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 12:37 -0500
                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-05 18:03 +0000
                                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 16:00 -0500
                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 22:07 +0100
                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-06 15:42 +0000
                                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:28 +0100
                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 18:23 +0000
                                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 16:01 -0500
                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 21:03 +0000
                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:40 +0000
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:02 +0100
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:04 +0100
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:12 -0500
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:29 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 17:38 +0100
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 17:25 +0000
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:44 +0100
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:45 +0000
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:25 +0000
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:25 +0000
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 14:57 +0100
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-05 14:10 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 16:26 +0000
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 14:33 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:08 +0100
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 19:25 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 19:43 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:40 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 21:26 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:38 +0100
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 20:54 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 07:19 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:31 +0100
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-03-06 01:56 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-06 13:54 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2025-03-06 14:57 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-06 11:09 -0500
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-06 11:17 -0700
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:12 -0500
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-07 09:35 -0700
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-06 18:24 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:36 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:17 -0500
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-07 16:16 +0100
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-08 10:30 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-03-06 16:37 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:53 +0000
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 07:37 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-07 10:46 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-07 13:24 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:38 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-07 15:35 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-07 15:46 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-14 18:49 +0000
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-15 09:53 +0000
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-15 11:46 +0000
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 08:35 -0400
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-15 17:53 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-15 19:27 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 23:30 -0400
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 13:47 +0000
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-16 15:13 +0000
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 16:04 +0000
                                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-16 18:00 +0000
                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-17 08:53 +0000
                                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-17 13:53 +0000
                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-17 14:53 +0000
                                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-17 18:44 +0000
                                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 10:42 +0000
                                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-20 12:48 +0000
                                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 13:18 +0000
                                                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-20 13:27 +0000
                                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 14:28 +0000
                                                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-20 16:02 +0000
                                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-20 13:00 -0400
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-16 11:54 -0400
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 16:09 +0000
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-16 19:23 +0000
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-16 23:10 +0100
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 08:48 -0400

Page 2 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6  Next page →

#45875

On 3/4/2025 4:09 PM, Chris wrote:

> 
> If someone has your emails and your mobile phone number you are royally
> screwed. Yes, even you.
> 

  I'm repeatedly struck by how much cellphone addicts can't
imagine any other way to live. My cellphone has no address book,
no apps to speak of, no passwords. I keep it in case I need to
make a phone call away from home. If someone steals it then
I'd just buy another $40 TracFone amnd another $20 card to
get me 3 months usage. No big loss.

   My emails are not sitting on a server somewhere. I download
them and then delete them from the server. I don't use either for
banking, shopping, transmitting credit card numbers, etc.

  So, no, I would not be "royally screwed". I don't live the reckless
e-lifestyle that you believe is unavoidable.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45876

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 3/4/2025 4:09 PM, Chris wrote:
> 
>> 
>> If someone has your emails and your mobile phone number you are royally
>> screwed. Yes, even you.
>> 
> 
>  I'm repeatedly struck by how much cellphone addicts can't
> imagine any other way to live. My cellphone has no address book,
> no apps to speak of, no passwords. I keep it in case I need to
> make a phone call away from home. If someone steals it then
> I'd just buy another $40 TracFone amnd another $20 card to
> get me 3 months usage. No big loss.
> 
>   My emails are not sitting on a server somewhere. I download
> them and then delete them from the server. I don't use either for
> banking, shopping, transmitting credit card numbers, etc.
> 
>  So, no, I would not be "royally screwed". I don't live the reckless
> e-lifestyle that you believe is unavoidable.

That's true. Seeing as you don't use 2FA an attacker only needs access to
your email account to screw you over. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45880

On 3/5/2025 12:34 AM, Chris wrote:

>>   So, no, I would not be "royally screwed". I don't live the reckless
>> e-lifestyle that you believe is unavoidable.
> 
> That's true. Seeing as you don't use 2FA an attacker only needs access to
> your email account to screw you over.
> 

    OK. I'm not going to try to explain this to you a 4th
time. You clearly can't conceive of any way of doing
things other than your cellphone lifestyle, so you don't
understand the simple facts I've explained. Good luck.

   This raises some interesting existential questions. For
instance, in 40 years, when there's no human contact
except through cellphones, what will we bury when someone
dies -- the corpse or the cellphone? Will people buy a
Galaxy Mega 117 with their savings, just so they can look
good at their own funeral? Will people like me, with a $40
TracFone, have a closed casket, so as not to traumatize
my loved ones? Lots of details to work out... On the bright
side, at the current rate of screen shrinkage, my funeral will
probably be remote viewing only, on a 1/2" screen, so I can
probably substitute a picture of a GM117 and no one
will know. After all, reality will have gone fully virtual by
then, anyway... Now where's my cellphone? I want to install
a clapper app, in case it falls between the sofa cushions
and I can't find it. :)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45890

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 12:34 AM, Chris wrote:
> 
>>> So, no, I would not be "royally screwed". I don't live the reckless
>>> e-lifestyle that you believe is unavoidable.
>> 
>> That's true. Seeing as you don't use 2FA an attacker only needs access to
>> your email account to screw you over.
>> 
> 
>    OK. I'm not going to try to explain this to you a 4th
> time. You clearly can't conceive of any way of doing
> things other than your cellphone lifestyle, so you don't
> understand the simple facts I've explained. Good luck.

Good luck to you too as you're intent on sticking to your cellphone story
despite my scenario not requiring it. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45877

On 05/03/2025 1:43, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 3/4/2025 4:09 PM, Chris wrote:
> 
>>
>> If someone has your emails and your mobile phone number you are royally
>> screwed. Yes, even you.
>>
> 
>   I'm repeatedly struck by how much cellphone addicts can't
> imagine any other way to live. My cellphone has no address book,
> no apps to speak of, no passwords. I keep it in case I need to
> make a phone call away from home. If someone steals it then
> I'd just buy another $40 TracFone amnd another $20 card to
> get me 3 months usage. No big loss.
> 
 >    My emails are not sitting on a server somewhere. I download> them 
and then delete them from the server. I don't use either for
> banking, shopping, transmitting credit card numbers, etc.

That is what Oliver North thought happened....

> 
>   So, no, I would not be "royally screwed". I don't live the reckless
> e-lifestyle that you believe is unavoidable.

In the UK its pretty much unavoidable. Bank branches are closing, so for 
example if you live on parts of the Yorkshire Dales you nearest branch 
might be a 45 minute drive away down country lanes....

https://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/23289735.fury-closure-bedale-leyburn-barclays-branches/

...  many government tasks have to be done on-line. Watching a TV 
program last night, on claiming some pension credits you need to do it 
on-line. What if you have no on-line access some one asked, the answer, 
go to the library or ask a friend...

Now I know to do these things in the UK on-line requires a mobile linked 
to an e-mail account, so lose your mobile and buy a new one you are 
screwed...

Dave

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45878

On 2025-03-05 09:44, David Wade wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 1:43, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 3/4/2025 4:09 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> If someone has your emails and your mobile phone number you are royally
>>> screwed. Yes, even you.
>>>
>>
>>   I'm repeatedly struck by how much cellphone addicts can't
>> imagine any other way to live. My cellphone has no address book,
>> no apps to speak of, no passwords. I keep it in case I need to
>> make a phone call away from home. If someone steals it then
>> I'd just buy another $40 TracFone amnd another $20 card to
>> get me 3 months usage. No big loss.
>>
>  >    My emails are not sitting on a server somewhere. I download> them 
> and then delete them from the server. I don't use either for
>> banking, shopping, transmitting credit card numbers, etc.
> 
> That is what Oliver North thought happened....
> 
>>
>>   So, no, I would not be "royally screwed". I don't live the reckless
>> e-lifestyle that you believe is unavoidable.
> 
> In the UK its pretty much unavoidable. Bank branches are closing, so for 
> example if you live on parts of the Yorkshire Dales you nearest branch 
> might be a 45 minute drive away down country lanes....
> 
> https://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/23289735.fury-closure- 
> bedale-leyburn-barclays-branches/
> 
> ...  many government tasks have to be done on-line. Watching a TV 
> program last night, on claiming some pension credits you need to do it 
> on-line. What if you have no on-line access some one asked, the answer, 
> go to the library or ask a friend...
> 
> Now I know to do these things in the UK on-line requires a mobile linked 
> to an e-mail account, so lose your mobile and buy a new one you are 
> screwed...

It is the same in Spain. I live in a biggish city (~200K inhabitants). 
The bank branches are gone, now I have to walk farther. I'm fortunate, 
there are still branches at walking distance, villages in the country 
side may have no branches at all. Maybe not even an ATM.

If I want to put some savings in a fund, I have to talk over the phone 
with someone at their central offices, the people at the branch do 
nothing, they no longer do it. And the signing operation maybe done on 
the computer or on the phone, reading unreadable tiny documents on the 
screen. Even if I go to the office to see papers, I have to sign them on 
the phone.

It doesn't matter what I think about having a smartphone.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45884

On 3/5/2025 7:15 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> It is the same in Spain. I live in a biggish city (~200K inhabitants). 
> The bank branches are gone, now I have to walk farther. I'm fortunate, 
> there are still branches at walking distance, villages in the country 
> side may have no branches at all. Maybe not even an ATM.
> 
> If I want to put some savings in a fund, I have to talk over the phone 
> with someone at their central offices, the people at the branch do 
> nothing, they no longer do it. And the signing operation maybe done on 
> the computer or on the phone, reading unreadable tiny documents on the 
> screen. Even if I go to the office to see papers, I have to sign them on 
> the phone.
> 
> It doesn't matter what I think about having a smartphone.
> 

  It sounds like you could live without a cellphone, just as
I can. But there are lifestyle limitations. For example, I
can't call an Uber or rent an AirBnB. The cellphone has
become the only accepted ID for those. On the other hand,
I have no interest in either service. They're parasites.

   But it's changing very quickly. Apple invented
computer cellphones in 2008. For several years people
told me not to call their cellphone because it cost too
much. Only in recent years has it become a lifestyle
of constant texting and cellphone-everything. Maybe it's
less dramatic in the US
because here the cellphone lifestyle is still an urban
lifestyle. Rural areas just don't have the coverage.
Though Musk may end that limitation with his new
satellite service.

   Eventually I suppose we'll have embedded chips,
with ear and cornea implants. All voice activated.
Then we'll all be convening here to discuss the best app
to stop from hearing tampon ads at 3 AM.

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#45887

On 05/03/2025 13:47, Newyana2 wrote:
> But it's changing very quickly. Apple invented
> computer cellphones in 2008.


Could somebody clarify the exact meaning of "But it's changing very 
quickly. Apple invented computer cellphones in 2008"  ?

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#45889

On 3/5/2025 9:27 AM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 13:47, Newyana2 wrote:
>> But it's changing very quickly. Apple invented
>> computer cellphones in 2008.
> 
> 
> Could somebody clarify the exact meaning of "But it's changing very 
> quickly. Apple invented computer cellphones in 2008"  ?

   Why did you snip the rest of my description of rapid change?
Today most people -- as evidenced in this group -- are living
their lives from a kind of personal control booth, which is their
cellphone. Computer phones have only existed for about 17 years.
For much of that time they were limited in both their functionality
and their ubiquity. Apps were what made them especially useful,
not phone calls.

   So, how long have cellphones been assumed as the common
exchange of social and business interaction? In my experience it's
only been maybe 5 years since people started asking to text me,
and getting annoyed when I told them I don't text. 2FA is newer
still. We've now reached a point where most people assume that
all other people can be reached anytime by text and are conducting
their lives via DoorDash, Uber, texting, Venmo, and so on. The
youngest adults have grown up with virtually no experience
of solitude, constantly engaged in a social circle.

   That's what I mean by changing very quickly. As a babyboomer
who uses a cellphone mainly as a portable phonebooth, the lifestyle
of GenZ is almost unrecognizable to me. Yet it wasn't even possible
a few years ago.

   Uber, DoorDash, Venmo.... Those are all fairly new. The landscape
of social and business interaction is changing quickly. Without using
a cellphone, I can't use any of those services. It's a kind of parallel
world that's gradually becoming the only option. That's what we've
been talking about. Carlos is saying that already it's nearly impossible
for him to conduct his basic life without a computer cellphone. For me
in the US it's not quite so extreme. Aside from a few cellphone addicts
who want to text me, I have no use for Venmo or Uber. I know
how to read maps... So there's not much that I'm actually missing in
practice by not living via cellphone. But most young people now
would be lost. They'd likely have a mental breakdown simply at being
disconnected from their social hive, like Star Trek's Borg.

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#45893

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 9:27 AM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
> > On 05/03/2025 13:47, Newyana2 wrote:
> >> But it's changing very quickly. Apple invented
> >> computer cellphones in 2008.
> > 
> > 
> > Could somebody clarify the exact meaning of "But it's changing very 
> > quickly. Apple invented computer cellphones in 2008"  ?
> 
>    Why did you snip the rest of my description of rapid change?
> Today most people -- as evidenced in this group -- are living
> their lives from a kind of personal control booth, which is their
> cellphone.

  "as evidenced in this group" is utter nonsense and you (should) know
it. What you describe is *your* dreamt-up narrative, not the common use
of the users in 'this' group (meaning comp.mobile.android).

  FYI, I use my computer much, much more than my smartphone and that's
probably true for many (most?) people in this group. Today (it's 17:30
here), I've used it two times. Yes, a real "personal control booth"!
NOT!

> 	     Computer phones have only existed for about 17 years.

  "only"!? 17 years is a long, long time, especially in this technology
age.

[...]

>    So, how long have cellphones been assumed as the common
> exchange of social and business interaction? In my experience it's
> only been maybe 5 years since people started asking to text me,
> and getting annoyed when I told them I don't text. 2FA is newer
> still.

  I hate to rain on your parade, but I've been using 2FA for at least 17
years (probably longer, but that's a timeframe which I have a record
for). And no, that wasn't with a smartphone, but with a hardware TOTP
device.

  (As to 'texting', i.e SMS): That's so outdated and mainly a US-thing.
Most of the rest of the world uses modern IM (Instant Messaging).)

[...] 

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#45895

On 05/03/2025 15:42, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 9:27 AM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>> On 05/03/2025 13:47, Newyana2 wrote:
>>> But it's changing very quickly. Apple invented
>>> computer cellphones in 2008.
>>
>>
>> Could somebody clarify the exact meaning of "But it's changing very 
>> quickly. Apple invented computer cellphones in 2008"  ?
> 
>    Why did you snip the rest of my description of rapid change?
> Today most people -- as evidenced in this group -- are living
> their lives from a kind of personal control booth, which is their
> cellphone. Computer phones have only existed for about 17 years.
> For much of that time they were limited in both their functionality
> and their ubiquity. Apps were what made them especially useful,
> not phone calls.
> 
>    So, how long have cellphones been assumed as the common
> exchange of social and business interaction? In my experience it's
> only been maybe 5 years since people started asking to text me,
> and getting annoyed when I told them I don't text. 2FA is newer
> still. We've now reached a point where most people assume that
> all other people can be reached anytime by text and are conducting
> their lives via DoorDash, Uber, texting, Venmo, and so on. The
> youngest adults have grown up with virtually no experience
> of solitude, constantly engaged in a social circle.
> 
>    That's what I mean by changing very quickly. As a babyboomer
> who uses a cellphone mainly as a portable phonebooth, the lifestyle
> of GenZ is almost unrecognizable to me. Yet it wasn't even possible
> a few years ago.
> 
>    Uber, DoorDash, Venmo.... Those are all fairly new. The landscape
> of social and business interaction is changing quickly. Without using
> a cellphone, I can't use any of those services. It's a kind of parallel
> world that's gradually becoming the only option. That's what we've
> been talking about. Carlos is saying that already it's nearly impossible
> for him to conduct his basic life without a computer cellphone. For me
> in the US it's not quite so extreme. Aside from a few cellphone addicts
> who want to text me, I have no use for Venmo or Uber. I know
> how to read maps... So there's not much that I'm actually missing in
> practice by not living via cellphone. But most young people now
> would be lost. They'd likely have a mental breakdown simply at being
> disconnected from their social hive, like Star Trek's Borg.
> 



I "snipped out" the rest of your description of rapid change (whatever 
that is) in the hope that somebody might clarify the claim that "Apple 
invented computer cellphones in 2008"

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#45897

On 3/5/2025 12:21 PM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
> 
> 
> I "snipped out" the rest of your description of rapid change (whatever 
> that is) in the hope that somebody might clarify the claim that "Apple 
> invented computer cellphones in 2008"
> 

   Is that wrong? I just looked it up. It was actually 2007.
Was there another computer cellphone before that? I'm
not aware of any. There were cellphones that could make
phone calls. But there were not apps, browsers, and so on,
as far as I know. I welcome correction if I'm mistaken.

   In other words, people could make phone calls on wireless
phones back in the 80s. But the cellphone lifestyle of banking,
shopping, getting directions, texting, etc is fairly recent.
(Remember that there's also the lag between when iPhone
came out and when computer cellphones became ubiquitous.)

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#45898

Newyana2 wrote:

> Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>> I "snipped out" the rest of your description of rapid change (whatever 
>> that is) in the hope that somebody might clarify the claim that "Apple 
>> invented computer cellphones in 2008"
> 
>    Is that wrong? I just looked it up. It was actually 2007.
> Was there another computer cellphone before that? I'm
> not aware of any. There were cellphones that could make
> phone calls. But there were not apps, browsers, and so on,
> as far as I know. I welcome correction if I'm mistaken.
calling them "computer cellphones" just sounds odd.

Before smartphones, there were e.g. the Nokia 9000 series 
"communicators" which had email and web-browsing in mid '90s.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator>

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#45906

On 3/5/2025 1:03 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Newyana2 wrote:

> calling them "computer cellphones" just sounds odd.
> 

    Not as silly as "smartphone". :)
It's basically a computer that can make phone calls.
Mainly they're used for apps and online operations. Mine
has Firefox installed.

> Before smartphones, there were e.g. the Nokia 9000 series 
> "communicators" which had email and web-browsing in mid '90s.
> 

   I'm sure there were all sorts of niche items. But that's not
the context here. The point was that only in recent years
have most people been using texting and apps on computer
phones, to such an extent that everyone is assumed to
have one handy at all times. That's what we've been talking
about -- how hard it is to not use a cellphone. Some Brits and
Spanish people are claiming they can't live at all in the modern
worls without a cellphone. I don't believe that's true, but I
do know that more and more things require a cellphone.

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#45909

On 05/03/2025 22:00, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 1:03 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Newyana2 wrote:
> 
>> calling them "computer cellphones" just sounds odd.
>>
> 
>     Not as silly as "smartphone". :)
> It's basically a computer that can make phone calls.
> Mainly they're used for apps and online operations. Mine
> has Firefox installed.
> 
>> Before smartphones, there were e.g. the Nokia 9000 series 
>> "communicators" which had email and web-browsing in mid '90s.
>>
> 
>    I'm sure there were all sorts of niche items. But that's not
> the context here. The point was that only in recent years
> have most people been using texting and apps on computer
> phones, to such an extent that everyone is assumed to
> have one handy at all times. That's what we've been talking
> about -- how hard it is to not use a cellphone. Some Brits and
> Spanish people are claiming they can't live at all in the modern
> worls without a cellphone. I don't believe that's true, but I
> do know that more and more things require a cellphone.

yes you can live without a Cellphone, but you can also live without 
electricity, mains water, a car etc. etc. etc. Is it an enjoyable, 
rewarding experience, probably not. Will it cost me financially, 
probably. Is it sensible? About as sensible as avoiding blood 
transfusions and modern medicines.

Dave

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#45913

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 1:03 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Newyana2 wrote:
> 
> > calling them "computer cellphones" just sounds odd.
> 
>     Not as silly as "smartphone". :)

  Doesn't matter. It's the common, accepted, <whatever> name. Using some
*other* made up name (like "computer cellphones") is silly. (BTW, most
non-US countries say 'mobile phone' instead of 'cellphone'. The 'cell'
aspect is mostly irrelevant and often hardly applies.)

  Analogy: I have a laptop, which hardly ever if ever, is on my lap.
'Notebook' isn't really ay better. So everybody says 'laptop', end of
story.

> It's basically a computer that can make phone calls.

  And many, many things which a normal computer can't do, so while it
obviously is a computer - many non-computer things are - it's only
confusing to call it a computer.

> Mainly they're used for apps and online operations. Mine
> has Firefox installed.
> 
> > Before smartphones, there were e.g. the Nokia 9000 series 
> > "communicators" which had email and web-browsing in mid '90s.
> 
>    I'm sure there were all sorts of niche items. But that's not
> the context here. The point was that only in recent years
> have most people been using texting and apps on computer
> phones, to such an extent that everyone is assumed to
> have one handy at all times. That's what we've been talking
> about -- how hard it is to not use a cellphone. Some Brits and
> Spanish people are claiming they can't live at all in the modern
> worls without a cellphone. I don't believe that's true, but I
> do know that more and more things require a cellphone.

  I don't think "Some Brits and Spanish people" have claimed that, but
yes, many say that smartphones have a lot of useful functionality, which
is often not available in other devices / by other means. So that's why
they buy them and use them.

  See Carlos' resonse where he describes that at first he was 'against'
smartphones and smartwatches and now he has his (at least) second
generation of both.

  My story is about the same and so is my wife's.

  All this brings me to your frequent [1] 'smartphone-addicts' rants:

  Could you please explain how it's OK for you to use your computer 'all
the time', but in some mysterious way, it's not OK for others to use
their smartphone 'all the time'?

  I use my car 'all the time'. I use my watch 'all the time'. I watch TV
'all the time'. I read the newspaper 'all the time'. I hope that's
allright with you.

[1] Not so much the one I'm responding to, but also that has a bit of
it. To be fair, I seem to notice a slight change to the positive.

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#45918

On 2025-03-06 16:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> On 3/5/2025 1:03 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Newyana2 wrote:
>>
>>> calling them "computer cellphones" just sounds odd.
>>
>>      Not as silly as "smartphone". :)
> 
>    Doesn't matter. It's the common, accepted, <whatever> name. Using some
> *other* made up name (like "computer cellphones") is silly. (BTW, most
> non-US countries say 'mobile phone' instead of 'cellphone'. The 'cell'
> aspect is mostly irrelevant and often hardly applies.)
> 
>    Analogy: I have a laptop, which hardly ever if ever, is on my lap.
> 'Notebook' isn't really ay better. So everybody says 'laptop', end of
> story.

"portable", at least in one of those places where we say 'mobile phone' ;-)


>> It's basically a computer that can make phone calls.
> 
>    And many, many things which a normal computer can't do, so while it
> obviously is a computer - many non-computer things are - it's only
> confusing to call it a computer.

It is a hand held computer that can make calls, is connected to 
internet, is aware of its location, orientation and movements. It can 
also take photos. And it runs applications that use any of that, even in 
the middle of nowhere.

  :-)

And we call it "smartphone".

For example, a computer that knows the location and the current movement 
can give you instructions in the middle of a forest. You can take a 
photo of a plant and it identifies it. There is a large amount of new 
applications that make sense inside a smartphone, but not in a computer.

> 
>> Mainly they're used for apps and online operations. Mine
>> has Firefox installed.
>>
>>> Before smartphones, there were e.g. the Nokia 9000 series
>>> "communicators" which had email and web-browsing in mid '90s.
>>
>>     I'm sure there were all sorts of niche items. But that's not
>> the context here. The point was that only in recent years
>> have most people been using texting and apps on computer
>> phones, to such an extent that everyone is assumed to
>> have one handy at all times. That's what we've been talking
>> about -- how hard it is to not use a cellphone. Some Brits and
>> Spanish people are claiming they can't live at all in the modern
>> worls without a cellphone. I don't believe that's true, but I
>> do know that more and more things require a cellphone.
> 
>    I don't think "Some Brits and Spanish people" have claimed that, but
> yes, many say that smartphones have a lot of useful functionality, which
> is often not available in other devices / by other means. So that's why
> they buy them and use them.

Yep.

> 
>    See Carlos' resonse where he describes that at first he was 'against'
> smartphones and smartwatches and now he has his (at least) second
> generation of both.

:-)

I think I have developed the strategy of initially buying a cheap 
version of these gadgets, explore their usage to me, then perhaps buy a 
better one, with more knowledge of what I want and need.


>    My story is about the same and so is my wife's.
> 
>    All this brings me to your frequent [1] 'smartphone-addicts' rants:
> 
>    Could you please explain how it's OK for you to use your computer 'all
> the time', but in some mysterious way, it's not OK for others to use
> their smartphone 'all the time'?
> 
>    I use my car 'all the time'. I use my watch 'all the time'. I watch TV
> 'all the time'. I read the newspaper 'all the time'. I hope that's
> allright with you.

:-)

> [1] Not so much the one I'm responding to, but also that has a bit of
> it. To be fair, I seem to notice a slight change to the positive.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#45899

On 05/03/2025 17:37, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 12:21 PM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>>
>>
>> I "snipped out" the rest of your description of rapid change (whatever 
>> that is) in the hope that somebody might clarify the claim that "Apple 
>> invented computer cellphones in 2008"
>>
> 
>    Is that wrong? I just looked it up. It was actually 2007.
> Was there another computer cellphone before that? I'm
> not aware of any. There were cellphones that could make
> phone calls. But there were not apps, browsers, and so on,
> as far as I know. I welcome correction if I'm mistaken.
> 
>    In other words, people could make phone calls on wireless
> phones back in the 80s. But the cellphone lifestyle of banking,
> shopping, getting directions, texting, etc is fairly recent.
> (Remember that there's also the lag between when iPhone
> came out and when computer cellphones became ubiquitous.)
> 

That assumes that the only definition of a computer cellphone is your 
definition.

I believe that web browsing and email applications were available on 
some handsets using GPRS / WAP - before wifi standards were established 
(and before CSS got sorted out)

Lots of old Nokia handsets had gaming applications and other utilities 
like alarm clock / calendar /calculator etc

"texting, etc" is NOT fairly recent - I think it came in with release 2 
of GSM in the early 90s.

NTT DoCoMo introduced iMode in Japan some time in the late 90s - which 
provided a browsing service and some multi user games, along with text 
chatting and possibly some sort of press to talk facility.

i-Mode users also have access to other various services such as: sports 
results, weather forecasts, games, financial services, and ticket booking.

The Blackberry Messenger platform provided a global text service based 
on the PIN of the individual handset - regardless of location or network 
operator

Basically, the Apple / Android "axis of evil" may not be the only gig in 
town - and I dont think it was the first

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#45907

On 3/5/2025 1:23 PM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 17:37, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 3/5/2025 12:21 PM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I "snipped out" the rest of your description of rapid change 
>>> (whatever that is) in the hope that somebody might clarify the claim 
>>> that "Apple invented computer cellphones in 2008"
>>>
>>
>>    Is that wrong? I just looked it up. It was actually 2007.
>> Was there another computer cellphone before that? I'm
>> not aware of any. There were cellphones that could make
>> phone calls. But there were not apps, browsers, and so on,
>> as far as I know. I welcome correction if I'm mistaken.
>>
>>    In other words, people could make phone calls on wireless
>> phones back in the 80s. But the cellphone lifestyle of banking,
>> shopping, getting directions, texting, etc is fairly recent.
>> (Remember that there's also the lag between when iPhone
>> came out and when computer cellphones became ubiquitous.)
>>
> 
> That assumes that the only definition of a computer cellphone is your 
> definition.
> 
> I believe that web browsing and email applications were available on 
> some handsets using GPRS / WAP - before wifi standards were established 
> (and before CSS got sorted out)
> 
> Lots of old Nokia handsets had gaming applications and other utilities 
> like alarm clock / calendar /calculator etc
> 
> "texting, etc" is NOT fairly recent - I think it came in with release 2 
> of GSM in the early 90s.
> 
> NTT DoCoMo introduced iMode in Japan some time in the late 90s - which 
> provided a browsing service and some multi user games, along with text 
> chatting and possibly some sort of press to talk facility.
> 
> i-Mode users also have access to other various services such as: sports 
> results, weather forecasts, games, financial services, and ticket booking.
> 
> The Blackberry Messenger platform provided a global text service based 
> on the PIN of the individual handset - regardless of location or network 
> operator
> 
> Basically, the Apple / Android "axis of evil" may not be the only gig in 
> town - and I dont think it was the first
> 
      You're missing the whole point. Read the thread.

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#45908

On 05/03/2025 21:01, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 1:23 PM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>> On 05/03/2025 17:37, Newyana2 wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2025 12:21 PM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I "snipped out" the rest of your description of rapid change 
>>>> (whatever that is) in the hope that somebody might clarify the claim 
>>>> that "Apple invented computer cellphones in 2008"
>>>>
>>>
>>>    Is that wrong? I just looked it up. It was actually 2007.
>>> Was there another computer cellphone before that? I'm
>>> not aware of any. There were cellphones that could make
>>> phone calls. But there were not apps, browsers, and so on,
>>> as far as I know. I welcome correction if I'm mistaken.
>>>
>>>    In other words, people could make phone calls on wireless
>>> phones back in the 80s. But the cellphone lifestyle of banking,
>>> shopping, getting directions, texting, etc is fairly recent.
>>> (Remember that there's also the lag between when iPhone
>>> came out and when computer cellphones became ubiquitous.)
>>>
>>
>> That assumes that the only definition of a computer cellphone is your 
>> definition.
>>
>> I believe that web browsing and email applications were available on 
>> some handsets using GPRS / WAP - before wifi standards were 
>> established (and before CSS got sorted out)
>>
>> Lots of old Nokia handsets had gaming applications and other utilities 
>> like alarm clock / calendar /calculator etc
>>
>> "texting, etc" is NOT fairly recent - I think it came in with release 
>> 2 of GSM in the early 90s.
>>
>> NTT DoCoMo introduced iMode in Japan some time in the late 90s - which 
>> provided a browsing service and some multi user games, along with text 
>> chatting and possibly some sort of press to talk facility.
>>
>> i-Mode users also have access to other various services such as: 
>> sports results, weather forecasts, games, financial services, and 
>> ticket booking.
>>
>> The Blackberry Messenger platform provided a global text service based 
>> on the PIN of the individual handset - regardless of location or 
>> network operator
>>
>> Basically, the Apple / Android "axis of evil" may not be the only gig 
>> in town - and I dont think it was the first
>>
>       You're missing the whole point. Read the thread.


And you are avoiding the question

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