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"'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number"

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  "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-03 12:27 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 10:47 -0500
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Rance <david@SPAMOFF.invalid> - 2025-03-03 17:13 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-03 17:33 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Rance <david@SPAMOFF.invalid> - 2025-03-03 18:20 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-03 15:54 +0000
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 17:25 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 14:04 -0500
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 19:28 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:36 +0100
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:35 +0100
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 17:35 -0500
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-04 02:49 +0100
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 08:07 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 21:38 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-03 17:31 -0500
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 08:13 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-04 08:09 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-04 16:22 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 21:09 +0000
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-04 19:43 -0500
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 05:34 +0000
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:22 -0500
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 16:15 +0000
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 09:44 +0100
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:15 +0100
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:47 -0500
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 14:27 +0000
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 10:42 -0500
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 16:51 +0000
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 17:21 +0000
                                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 12:37 -0500
                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-05 18:03 +0000
                                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 16:00 -0500
                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 22:07 +0100
                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-06 15:42 +0000
                                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:28 +0100
                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 18:23 +0000
                                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 16:01 -0500
                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 21:03 +0000
                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:40 +0000
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:02 +0100
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:04 +0100
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-05 08:12 -0500
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:29 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 17:38 +0100
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-03-05 17:25 +0000
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:44 +0100
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 18:45 +0000
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:25 +0000
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 13:25 +0000
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 14:57 +0100
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-05 14:10 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-05 16:26 +0000
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-05 14:33 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-05 21:08 +0100
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-03 19:25 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 19:43 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:40 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 21:26 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:38 +0100
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-03 20:54 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-04 07:19 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-03 21:31 +0100
    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-03-06 01:56 +0000
      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-06 13:54 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2025-03-06 14:57 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-06 11:09 -0500
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-06 11:17 -0700
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:12 -0500
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2025-03-07 09:35 -0700
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-06 18:24 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:36 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:17 -0500
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-07 16:16 +0100
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-08 10:30 +0000
        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-03-06 16:37 +0000
          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-06 19:53 +0000
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-07 07:37 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-07 10:46 +0100
            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-07 13:24 +0000
              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-07 09:38 -0500
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-07 15:35 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-07 15:46 +0000
                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-14 18:49 +0000
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-15 09:53 +0000
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-15 11:46 +0000
                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 08:35 -0400
                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-15 17:53 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-15 19:27 +0000
                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 23:30 -0400
                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 13:47 +0000
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-16 15:13 +0000
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 16:04 +0000
                                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-03-16 18:00 +0000
                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-17 08:53 +0000
                                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-17 13:53 +0000
                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-17 14:53 +0000
                                        Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-17 18:44 +0000
                                          Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 10:42 +0000
                                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-20 12:48 +0000
                                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 13:18 +0000
                                                Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-20 13:27 +0000
                                                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> - 2025-03-20 14:28 +0000
                                                    Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-03-20 16:02 +0000
                                                      Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-20 13:00 -0400
                            Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-16 11:54 -0400
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-16 16:09 +0000
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-16 19:23 +0000
                              Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-16 23:10 +0100
                  Re: "'Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number" Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-15 08:48 -0400

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#45900

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 12:21 PM, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
> > 
> > I "snipped out" the rest of your description of rapid change (whatever 
> > that is) in the hope that somebody might clarify the claim that "Apple 
> > invented computer cellphones in 2008"
> 
>    Is that wrong? I just looked it up. It was actually 2007.
> Was there another computer cellphone before that? I'm
> not aware of any. There were cellphones that could make
> phone calls. But there were not apps, browsers, and so on,
> as far as I know. I welcome correction if I'm mistaken.
> 
>    In other words, people could make phone calls on wireless
> phones back in the 80s. But the cellphone lifestyle of banking,
> shopping, getting directions, texting, etc is fairly recent.
> (Remember that there's also the lag between when iPhone
> came out and when computer cellphones became ubiquitous.)

  As Andy mentioned, there were mobile phones in the 90s, which had a
browser and could e-mail. They also had some built-in apps, like
calendars, note taking, etc., etc.. Some of them also had add-on apps.

  I used such mobile phones in the latter 90s and also used them as a
mobile modem. In the early 2000s, I used a Nokia 6310i [1] as a digital
modem ('thethering').

  That's why, as Andy also noted, saying "computer cellphones" when you
mean smartphones, is rather odd and confusing/ambiguous.

[1] 'Nokia 6310i' <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_6310i>

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#45894

On 05/03/2025 14:47, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 3/5/2025 7:15 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> It is the same in Spain. I live in a biggish city (~200K inhabitants). 
>> The bank branches are gone, now I have to walk farther. I'm fortunate, 
>> there are still branches at walking distance, villages in the country 
>> side may have no branches at all. Maybe not even an ATM.
>>
>> If I want to put some savings in a fund, I have to talk over the phone 
>> with someone at their central offices, the people at the branch do 
>> nothing, they no longer do it. And the signing operation maybe done on 
>> the computer or on the phone, reading unreadable tiny documents on the 
>> screen. Even if I go to the office to see papers, I have to sign them 
>> on the phone.
>>
>> It doesn't matter what I think about having a smartphone.
>>
> 
>   It sounds like you could live without a cellphone, just as
> I can. 

I think you missed the :-

"Even if I go to the office to see papers, I have to sign them on the 
phone."

It very hard to exist without a Spanish cell phone in Spain. I also own 
a house there and own a Spanish mobile number as well as a uK one. I got 
it because the local white goods store won´t deliver without a cellphone 
number. Most places are the same.

The bank branches are closing so I need to rely on on-line access. Again 
the bank won´t give me on-line access without a cell phone. It wants to 
send me texts with codes for verification. So when I sign into the banks 
web site, every time I want to do something "new", it still sends a text 
to my mobile with a different pin number which I need to type into the 
web site.


But there are lifestyle limitations. For example, I
> can't call an Uber or rent an AirBnB. The cellphone has
> become the only accepted ID for those. On the other hand,
> I have no interest in either service. They're parasites.
>
>    But it's changing very quickly. Apple invented
> computer cellphones in 2008. 

Pretty sure I had a Nokia which could send e-mails before that. Whilst 
not strictly a Smart Phone COMPAQ iPaqs hand held PCs from pre-2000 
could take a GSM card and browse the web...


For several years people
> told me not to call their cellphone because it cost too
> much. Only in recent years has it become a lifestyle
> of constant texting and cellphone-everything. Maybe it's
> less dramatic in the US
> because here the cellphone lifestyle is still an urban
> lifestyle. Rural areas just don't have the coverage.
> Though Musk may end that limitation with his new
> satellite service.

The lack of mobile coverage in rural UK is also a problem. Many without 
coverage struggle to use the on-lines services because they need to 
receive the SMS messages needed to log into banks, government services 
on a normal connection.


> 
>    Eventually I suppose we'll have embedded chips,
> with ear and cornea implants. All voice activated.
> Then we'll all be convening here to discuss the best app
> to stop from hearing tampon ads at 3 AM.

na, it will be low cost cremations to drive you suicidal.

Dave

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#45903

On 2025-03-05 18:02, David Wade wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 14:47, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 3/5/2025 7:15 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> It is the same in Spain. I live in a biggish city (~200K 
>>> inhabitants). The bank branches are gone, now I have to walk farther. 
>>> I'm fortunate, there are still branches at walking distance, villages 
>>> in the country side may have no branches at all. Maybe not even an ATM.
>>>
>>> If I want to put some savings in a fund, I have to talk over the 
>>> phone with someone at their central offices, the people at the branch 
>>> do nothing, they no longer do it. And the signing operation maybe 
>>> done on the computer or on the phone, reading unreadable tiny 
>>> documents on the screen. Even if I go to the office to see papers, I 
>>> have to sign them on the phone.
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter what I think about having a smartphone.
>>>
>>
>>   It sounds like you could live without a cellphone, just as
>> I can. 
> 
> I think you missed the :-
> 
> "Even if I go to the office to see papers, I have to sign them on the 
> phone."

Right.

Saves them scanning the signed papers, then destroying the paper.

But it is an act of faith, because the papers are unreadable on my phone.

> It very hard to exist without a Spanish cell phone in Spain. I also own 
> a house there and own a Spanish mobile number as well as a uK one. I got 
> it because the local white goods store won´t deliver without a cellphone 
> number. Most places are the same.

Delivery guys often phone in advance, to know if you are at home. And if 
not, whether they can deliver to your neighbour instead. Correos doesn't 
phone till they find you are not home, to negotiate what to do with the 
package; they often arrive before predicted by Amazon and catch me unawares.

For this they want your mobile number so that they can always reach you.

> 
> The bank branches are closing so I need to rely on on-line access. Again 
> the bank won´t give me on-line access without a cell phone. It wants to 
> send me texts with codes for verification. So when I sign into the banks 
> web site, every time I want to do something "new", it still sends a text 
> to my mobile with a different pin number which I need to type into the 
> web site.

Yep. Some banks or some operations seem to use SMS, others use the 
banking app.

> 
> 
>> But there are lifestyle limitations. For example, I
>> can't call an Uber or rent an AirBnB. The cellphone has
>> become the only accepted ID for those. On the other hand,
>> I have no interest in either service. They're parasites.
>>
>>    But it's changing very quickly. Apple invented
>> computer cellphones in 2008. 
> 
> Pretty sure I had a Nokia which could send e-mails before that. Whilst 
> not strictly a Smart Phone COMPAQ iPaqs hand held PCs from pre-2000 
> could take a GSM card and browse the web...

I don't know when smartphones appeared. I know I refused to have one, 
till I got one. A Samsung Galaxy Mini II. Then I realized there was a 
market for applications running in a personal handheld mobile device, 
with access to location.

Most used app, WhatsApp. Then maybe maps. Googling for some place when I 
am not at home is very handy. Example of location based app: an app that 
tells me the gasoline prices at all the stations around me, so that I 
can choose the most convenient or the cheapest today. Some supermarkets 
have apps with all my receipts, so that the mountain of paper receipts 
is gone. I can then locate when I bought the fan this summer and claim 
warranty on it. Some supermarkets are unable to get the app right. I can 
buy tickets for the cinema before going out, and not printing them. 
Problem becomes having a good enough phone to hold all those apps.


Similarly, I refused to have a stupid smartwatch, and I am on my second. 
As with the smartphone, I realized after the first that I needed a more 
expensive one. Too small or too cheap is rubbish (example of rubbish: 
not been able to tell the time in the sun; or getting notices when 
sleeping).



>> For several years people
>> told me not to call their cellphone because it cost too
>> much. Only in recent years has it become a lifestyle
>> of constant texting and cellphone-everything. Maybe it's
>> less dramatic in the US
>> because here the cellphone lifestyle is still an urban
>> lifestyle. Rural areas just don't have the coverage.
>> Though Musk may end that limitation with his new
>> satellite service.
> 
> The lack of mobile coverage in rural UK is also a problem. Many without 
> coverage struggle to use the on-lines services because they need to 
> receive the SMS messages needed to log into banks, government services 
> on a normal connection.

Right. In Spain, it seems to happens to few mountain locked places 
mostly. But it happens.

Although... phoning a foreign mobile phone may be more expensive than 
phoning the land line.


>>    Eventually I suppose we'll have embedded chips,
>> with ear and cornea implants. All voice activated.
>> Then we'll all be convening here to discuss the best app
>> to stop from hearing tampon ads at 3 AM.
> 
> na, it will be low cost cremations to drive you suicidal.

Add apps will be smart and know when you are sleeping or in the loo 
doing a number 2, thus with time to read something.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#45879

On 3/5/2025 3:44 AM, David Wade wrote:

>>   So, no, I would not be "royally screwed". I don't live the reckless
>> e-lifestyle that you believe is unavoidable.
> 
> In the UK its pretty much unavoidable. Bank branches are closing, so for 
> example if you live on parts of the Yorkshire Dales you nearest branch 
> might be a 45 minute drive away down country lanes....
> 

     People have been talking about that. It sounds like
Europe is 30 years ahead of the US with these changes.
I can reach several branches within 10 miles. One is an
easy walk. And I could also walk to a different bank.

   My bank actually seems to be adding tellers and managers.
I don't know why. Since COVID I mostly use the ATM. My
theory is that it may be connected to the great money
management scam. It's become common in the US for people
to leave their money in the hands of "professional money
managers". These people charge up to 1% per year, whether
your bets win or lose. They set you up with stocks, funds,
annuities, and so on. It made some sense back when people
were making 16% interest on a typical investment fund. Today
the profits are not nearly so predictable and income may actually
drop. But it seems to be where banks are making most of their
money. They're certainly making no efforts to seduce me into
a savings account, with .001% interest.

> 
> ...  many government tasks have to be done on-line. Watching a TV 
> program last night, on claiming some pension credits you need to do it 
> on-line. What if you have no on-line access some one asked, the answer, 
> go to the library or ask a friend...
> 
   We have some things like that. Social Seccurity (retirement)
gets auto-deposited. There's no choice in the matter. For old
people without computers there are libraries and senior centers,
with volunteers to help. It's not a terrible burden. But that's
very different from choosing to live through a cellphone.

> Now I know to do these things in the UK on-line requires a mobile linked 
> to an e-mail account, so lose your mobile and buy a new one you are 
> screwed...
> 

   That's one of the factors that makes me nervous. Another
is that security on a cellphone is a mystery. The device is
a sieve and I get very little control over it. Nor do I want to
spend a year becoming an Android expert.

    I was thinking of buying stocks at one point, but to do
it cheaply is only online, and that requires a cellphone. Which
brings up another problem: As we get increasingly automated,
no one is minding the store. Companies can simply avoid anyone
who wants to complain or close their account by having no
humans in the process. That's also why the fees are cheaper.
It's becoming like Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times. He foresaw
that almost 100 years ago, yet few see it now.

   One can invest through the US Treasury with no cellphone.
A code is sent to email. That's safe in my book. Once I get
the code and finish logging in, no one else can log in. Even if
they could, there's no access there to money. I've created
Social Securtity accounts and IRS (tax) accounts, simply so
that no one else can do it in my name.

   But I expect Chris and his e-addled ilk will get the last laugh.
Probably within 5 years I'll be pulled over on the road because
there's no identifying ping coming from my car. The officer will
discover that I don't have a cellphone to provide an easily
searchable documentation of my life. I'll then be arrested, either
under suspicion of espionage, or for mental competency
testing. If I'm lucky, I'll be released with a cellphone locked
to my wrist, ordered to buy stuff and join social media, then
forced to check in with a parole officer once every two weeks --
on Zoom.

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#45883

David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> Now I know to do these things in the UK on-line requires a mobile linked 
> to an e-mail account, so lose your mobile and buy a new one you are 
> screwed...

  Why would you be screwed? Yes, a new phone costs money, it's -
rightfully so - a hassle to get a replacement SIM and restoring your
apps and data is not all that easy, but "screwed"?

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#45892

On 05/03/2025 14:29, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
> [...]
> 
>> Now I know to do these things in the UK on-line requires a mobile linked
>> to an e-mail account, so lose your mobile and buy a new one you are
>> screwed...
> 
>    Why would you be screwed? Yes, a new phone costs money, it's -
> rightfully so - a hassle to get a replacement SIM and restoring your
> apps and data is not all that easy, but "screwed"?

because where you have no local branch of a bank, as is now common in 
the UK, you are forced to use on-line services. UK law now requires that 
such on-line services use some form of 2FA, most send a text to your 
mobile. However if you consider your PAYG SIMM disposable you now have a 
new number and have the hassle of trying to update it on the banks 
records...

Dave

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#45896

On 05/03/2025 16:38, David Wade wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 14:29, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>>> Now I know to do these things in the UK on-line requires a mobile linked
>>> to an e-mail account, so lose your mobile and buy a new one you are
>>> screwed...
>>
>>    Why would you be screwed? Yes, a new phone costs money, it's -
>> rightfully so - a hassle to get a replacement SIM and restoring your
>> apps and data is not all that easy, but "screwed"?
> 
> because where you have no local branch of a bank, as is now common in 
> the UK, you are forced to use on-line services. UK law now requires that 
> such on-line services use some form of 2FA, most send a text to your 
> mobile. However if you consider your PAYG SIMM disposable you now have a 
> new number and have the hassle of trying to update it on the banks 
> records...
> 
> Dave


I manage my online banking with a web browser on a desktop computer 
(with no wireless connection) and my bank doesnt have my mobile phone 
number.

I have one of those PIN sentry things for when they want to get personal

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#45905

On 05/03/2025 18:25, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 16:38, David Wade wrote:
>> On 05/03/2025 14:29, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> Now I know to do these things in the UK on-line requires a mobile 
>>>> linked
>>>> to an e-mail account, so lose your mobile and buy a new one you are
>>>> screwed...
>>>
>>>    Why would you be screwed? Yes, a new phone costs money, it's -
>>> rightfully so - a hassle to get a replacement SIM and restoring your
>>> apps and data is not all that easy, but "screwed"?
>>
>> because where you have no local branch of a bank, as is now common in 
>> the UK, you are forced to use on-line services. UK law now requires 
>> that such on-line services use some form of 2FA, most send a text to 
>> your mobile. However if you consider your PAYG SIMM disposable you now 
>> have a new number and have the hassle of trying to update it on the 
>> banks records...
>>
>> Dave
> 
> 
> I manage my online banking with a web browser on a desktop computer 
> (with no wireless connection) and my bank doesnt have my mobile phone 
> number.
> 
> I have one of those PIN sentry things for when they want to get personal

UK banks seem to have stopped supplying those.

Dave

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#45901

David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
> On 05/03/2025 14:29, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
> > [...]
> > 
> >> Now I know to do these things in the UK on-line requires a mobile linked
> >> to an e-mail account, so lose your mobile and buy a new one you are
> >> screwed...
> > 
> >    Why would you be screwed? Yes, a new phone costs money, it's -
> > rightfully so - a hassle to get a replacement SIM and restoring your
> > apps and data is not all that easy, but "screwed"?
> 
> because where you have no local branch of a bank, as is now common in 
> the UK, you are forced to use on-line services. UK law now requires that 
> such on-line services use some form of 2FA, most send a text to your 
> mobile. However if you consider your PAYG SIMM disposable you now have a 
> new number and have the hassle of trying to update it on the banks 
> records...

  Ah, I see. So with "lose your mobile", you actually mean "your SIM
expires". That's why <insert_diety> has invented reminders! :-)

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#45881

Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 3/4/2025 4:09 PM, Chris wrote:
> 
> > 
> > If someone has your emails and your mobile phone number you are royally
> > screwed. Yes, even you.
> 
>   I'm repeatedly struck by how much cellphone addicts can't
> imagine any other way to live. My cellphone has no address book,
> no apps to speak of, no passwords. I keep it in case I need to
> make a phone call away from home. If someone steals it then
> I'd just buy another $40 TracFone amnd another $20 card to
> get me 3 months usage. No big loss.

  You're apparently assuming that if a smartphone gets stolen, the thief
has access to the apps, data, etc. on the phone.

  Earth to Newyana2: (S)He hasn't! At least not if the user has
something which remotely resembles a functioning brain.

  Nowadays, there's even protection for the scenario when the thief
grabs the unlocked phone from your hands (Theft Protection Lock). Once
locked, the thief can not do anything with the phone, except a hard
reset (which wipes everything) and sell the phone. The latter is why
(s)he stole it in the first place, not for your data.

  Again: It's not a problem that you don't use this stuff and -
apparently - don't want to know/learn how it works. It's *not* OK to
spread FUD, urban legends, fear mongering, innuendo, etc., etc. about
something you don't even use and clearly do not understand.

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#45882

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> Fortunately, the victim has had his 40k refunded. 

  Do you have a reference - with details - for that? I.e. who accepted
responsibility for which fault(s)?

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#45885

On 2025-03-05 14:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>> Fortunately, the victim has had his 40k refunded.
> 
>    Do you have a reference - with details - for that? I.e. who accepted
> responsibility for which fault(s)?

Quote: «National Savings and Investments said it had refunded him the 
money taken from his account.»

And that's the £40000, because earlier it reads (quote):

«Worse news was to come, when he learned his National Savings and 
Investments password had been changed.

"After an hour of talking to different people there, they said, 'You've 
actually taken out a very large amount of premium bonds, over £40,000'," 
said Stephen.»

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#45886

In comp.mobile.android Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-03-05 14:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> >> Fortunately, the victim has had his 40k refunded.
> > 
> >    Do you have a reference - with details - for that? I.e. who accepted
> > responsibility for which fault(s)?
> 
> Quote: «National Savings and Investments said it had refunded him the 
> money taken from his account.»
> 
> And that's the £40000, because earlier it reads (quote):
> 
> «Worse news was to come, when he learned his National Savings and 
> Investments password had been changed.
> 
> "After an hour of talking to different people there, they said, 'You've 
> actually taken out a very large amount of premium bonds, over £40,000'," 
> said Stephen.»

What I don't understand is how that's a fraud vector.  NS&I premium bonds
(a kind of government-backed savings account with 'interest' generated by a
lottery-style algorithm, with certain tax advantages because they count as a
lottery not savings) used to be paper things that you could 'hold'.  But
nowadays it's all electronic - it's a savings account in your name
effectively.  So if he did buy £40k of premium bonds, I don't know how the
fraudster would have cashed that out - unless there's some flaw in the PB
system?

Theo

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#45891

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2025-03-05 14:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> Fortunately, the victim has had his 40k refunded.
>>> 
>>> Do you have a reference - with details - for that? I.e. who accepted
>>> responsibility for which fault(s)?
>> 
>> Quote: «National Savings and Investments said it had refunded him the 
>> money taken from his account.»
>> 
>> And that's the £40000, because earlier it reads (quote):
>> 
>> «Worse news was to come, when he learned his National Savings and 
>> Investments password had been changed.
>> 
>> "After an hour of talking to different people there, they said, 'You've 
>> actually taken out a very large amount of premium bonds, over £40,000'," 
>> said Stephen.»
> 
> What I don't understand is how that's a fraud vector.  NS&I premium bonds
> (a kind of government-backed savings account with 'interest' generated by a
> lottery-style algorithm, with certain tax advantages because they count as a
> lottery not savings) used to be paper things that you could 'hold'.  But
> nowadays it's all electronic - it's a savings account in your name
> effectively.  So if he did buy £40k of premium bonds, I don't know how the
> fraudster would have cashed that out - unless there's some flaw in the PB
> system?

Yeah, I'm not sure how it worked either. 

I had some PBs until recently and you can only withdraw to a designated
bank account and it takes a couple of days. They do use 2FA, but it was
only enforced (relatively) recently so if the victim hadn't logged in for a
while it might not have been set up. 

So given it took 48 hours for him to realise he'd been compromised and he
only had email authentication set up, then the thief could have had time to
change the bank details and then withdrawn the PBs. 

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#45888

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-03-05 14:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [...]
> >> Fortunately, the victim has had his 40k refunded.
> > 
> >    Do you have a reference - with details - for that? I.e. who accepted
> > responsibility for which fault(s)?
> 
> Quote: «National Savings and Investments said it had refunded him the 
> money taken from his account.»
> 
> And that's the £40000, because earlier it reads (quote):
> 
> «Worse news was to come, when he learned his National Savings and 
> Investments password had been changed.
> 
> "After an hour of talking to different people there, they said, 'You've 
> actually taken out a very large amount of premium bonds, over £40,000'," 
> said Stephen.»

  Thanks for that! I apparently overlooked the first quote. I only saw
the £50 "goodwill gesture" from EDF, which was a clear insult and so was
the £125 "goodwill gesture" from O2 Virgin Media.

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#45904

On 2025-03-05 15:33, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2025-03-05 14:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> Fortunately, the victim has had his 40k refunded.
>>>
>>>     Do you have a reference - with details - for that? I.e. who accepted
>>> responsibility for which fault(s)?
>>
>> Quote: «National Savings and Investments said it had refunded him the
>> money taken from his account.»
>>
>> And that's the £40000, because earlier it reads (quote):
>>
>> «Worse news was to come, when he learned his National Savings and
>> Investments password had been changed.
>>
>> "After an hour of talking to different people there, they said, 'You've
>> actually taken out a very large amount of premium bonds, over £40,000',"
>> said Stephen.»
> 
>    Thanks for that! I apparently overlooked the first quote. I only saw
> the £50 "goodwill gesture" from EDF, which was a clear insult and so was
> the £125 "goodwill gesture" from O2 Virgin Media.

The article has the information not in order, spread all over the text. 
The refund line is very near the end.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#45848

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Java Jive wrote:
> 
>> "Scammers stole £40k after EDF gave out my number"
> 
> Clearly EDF shouldn't go about giving out customer information, but I 
> ought to be able to paint my mobile number in 1ft high letters on the 
> side of my house and not have my SIM "swapped"

You can. But if you /also/ add your full name and email address, then all
bets are off. 

> All UK networks should take extra security measures, such as writing to 
> customers at known address to confirm such a drastic action.

I'd be stupendously annoyed at any company giving my phone number to anyone
including myself. Why would I legitimately ever need to be told my own
mobile number? 

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#45850

Chris wrote:

> Why would I legitimately ever need to be told my own
> mobile number?

But why is knowing my mobile number sufficient to rip off my mobile 
account?  I'd say hundreds of people know my mobile number ...

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#45854

On 2025-03-03 20:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> 
>> Why would I legitimately ever need to be told my own
>> mobile number?
> 
> But why is knowing my mobile number sufficient to rip off my mobile 
> account?  I'd say hundreds of people know my mobile number ...

They managed to did a SIM swap. For this they needed to trick some 
agency that duplicates SIMs into thinking it is really you who requests 
the duplicate SIM.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#45857

"Carlos E.R." wrote:

> They managed to did a SIM swap. For this they needed to trick some 
> agency that duplicates SIMs into thinking it is really you who requests 
> the duplicate SIM.

I only know the tabloid headline version of what's involved in a SIM 
swap, clearly the networks don't want to give out information about how 
it's actually done, but I wish I knew more about that e.g. to choose a 
network that protects their customers better ... I don't think any 
mobile network has ever invited me to setup TOTP/2FA on my account.

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