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Green?

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  Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-04 08:24 +0100
    Re: Green? Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2026-09-04 08:09 +0000
      Re: Green? Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-04 10:52 +0100
      Re: Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-04 11:32 +0100
    Re: Green? Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2026-09-04 10:30 +0100
      Re: Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-04 11:31 +0100
        Re: Green? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-09-04 12:18 +0100
          Re: Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-04 23:09 +0100
            Re: Green? alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-05 10:00 +0100
          Re: Green? Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-05 07:50 +0100
        Re: Green? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-05 09:37 +0100
          Re: Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-05 20:55 +0100
            Re: Green? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-08 13:51 +0100
              Re: Green? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2026-09-08 14:22 +0100
                Re: Green? Davey <davey@example.invalid> - 2026-09-08 15:00 +0100
                  Re: Green? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-08 19:12 +0100
        Re: Green? alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-05 09:57 +0100
      Re: Green? Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-04 11:46 +0100
        Re: Green? alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-05 10:02 +0100
      Re: Green? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-09-04 12:11 +0100
        Re: Green? Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2026-09-04 13:26 +0100
        Re: Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-04 23:06 +0100
          Re: Green? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-09-05 00:02 +0100
            Re: Green? Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2026-09-05 06:15 +0000
              Re: Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-05 08:15 +0100
              Re: Green? David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-09-05 09:19 +0100
            Re: Green? alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-05 10:12 +0100
            Re: Green? John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> - 2026-09-06 20:40 +0100
              Re: Green? Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-07 09:00 +0100
                Re: Green? Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk> - 2026-09-07 12:12 +0100
                  Re: Green? Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 08:54 +0100
                    Re: Green? Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> - 2026-09-08 09:04 +0100
                      Re: Green? Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2026-09-08 08:13 +0000
                        Re: Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-08 10:10 +0100
                        Re: Green? NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-13 21:28 +0100
                          Re: Green? Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> - 2026-09-14 09:46 +0100
                            Re: Green? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2026-09-14 10:19 +0100
                              Re: Green? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2026-09-14 11:02 +0100
                              Re: Green? Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2026-09-14 19:07 +0100
                                Re: Green? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2026-09-14 21:54 +0100
                                  Re: Green? Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2026-09-15 05:34 +0000
                                    Re: Green? Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-15 09:38 +0100
                                      Re: Green? Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2026-09-15 08:48 +0000
                                      Re: Green? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-15 09:54 +0100
                                    Re: Green? Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2026-09-15 09:37 +0100
                                      Re: Green? Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> - 2026-09-15 09:02 +0000
                                  Re: Green? Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2026-09-15 09:27 +0100
                                    Re: Green? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2026-09-15 10:36 +0100
                                      Re: Green? Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2026-09-15 11:03 +0100
                                        Re: Green? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2026-09-15 11:28 +0100
                    Re: Green? JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-08 10:02 +0100
                      Re: Green? Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 20:14 +0100
                        Re: Green? Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> - 2026-09-12 00:33 +0100
                    Re: Green? Paul Ratcliffe <abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> - 2026-09-18 11:29 +0000
                Re: Green? John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> - 2026-09-08 18:47 +0100
          Re: Green? alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-05 10:05 +0100
            Re: Green? Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-05 11:21 +0100
      Re: Green? Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2026-09-04 12:12 +0100
        Re: Green? Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> - 2026-09-04 18:31 +0100
      Re: Green? Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> - 2026-09-08 18:48 +0100

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#249763

In article <117e905$fm2k$1@dont-email.me>,
   David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/09/2026 10:30, Bob Latham wrote:
> > In article <117drmq$do1v$1@dont-email.me>,
> >     JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
> > 
> > I was reading somewhere the other day that in the 1960s and 70s
> > car handbooks that came with the car, told how to gap the plugs,
> > set the points and even adjust the tappets. Now they tell you not
> > to drink the battery acid.

> Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern
> cars are pretty much maintenance free.  You needed to set the
> tappets often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that
> don't need setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic
> ignition so no points or timing.

You completely missed the point, which was nothing to do with cars.

Bob.

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#249765

On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:
> Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars 
> are pretty much maintenance free.  You needed to set the tappets often, 
> they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need setting. 
> Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no points or 
> timing.


But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a 
description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly be 
unaware of.

I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes manual.

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#249767

On 04/09/2026 23:06, JMB99 wrote:
> On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:
>> Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars 
>> are pretty much maintenance free.  You needed to set the tappets 
>> often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need 
>> setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no 
>> points or timing.
> 
> 
> But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a 
> description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly be 
> unaware of.
> 
> I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes manual.
> 
> 
> 
As I said, they do. My ID.4 manual has lots of info on the car. I do 
remember on one of my previous cars being unable to work out how to 
delete a character when entering a post code into the satnav. It had an 
on-screen keyboard and a knob that let you select a letter, but if you 
made a mistake there was no back or delete on the keyboard. I later 
discovered you used the "back" button next to the knob.

I do find a fascination with obsolete skills strange. I oft see remarks 
like "no one can change a plug", whilst its true, by law every appliance 
comes with moulded plug, most have a replaceable lead, so in the rare 
event the plug is damaged, you just order a new one from Amazon and 
weight in the old one for scrap copper.

So whilst its true that I can use a slide rule, hand punch a Hollerith 
card, and change a rewirable fuse, remembering to wind the wire the 
correct way round the screws, I can't see me using ever using these 
skills in anger, so no point in anyone else learning them...

.. as for using a dial phone, well not exactly the same, but my good 
lady is so used to her iPhone mobile, she struggles to remember how to 
use our Panasonic DECT handsets, which for many years were our primary 
method of calling folks...

.. the world moves on...

Dave

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#249768

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/09/2026 23:06, JMB99 wrote:
>> On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:
>>> Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars 
>>> are pretty much maintenance free.  You needed to set the tappets 
>>> often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need 
>>> setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no 
>>> points or timing.
>> 
>> 
>> But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a 
>> description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly be 
>> unaware of.
>> 
>> I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes manual.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> As I said, they do. My ID.4 manual has lots of info on the car. I do 
> remember on one of my previous cars being unable to work out how to 
> delete a character when entering a post code into the satnav. It had an 
> on-screen keyboard and a knob that let you select a letter, but if you 
> made a mistake there was no back or delete on the keyboard. I later 
> discovered you used the "back" button next to the knob.
> 
> I do find a fascination with obsolete skills strange. I oft see remarks 
> like "no one can change a plug", whilst its true, by law every appliance 
> comes with moulded plug, most have a replaceable lead, so in the rare 
> event the plug is damaged, you just order a new one from Amazon and 
> weight in the old one for scrap copper.
> 
> So whilst its true that I can use a slide rule, hand punch a Hollerith 
> card, and change a rewirable fuse, remembering to wind the wire the 
> correct way round the screws, I can't see me using ever using these 
> skills in anger, so no point in anyone else learning them...
> 
> .. as for using a dial phone, well not exactly the same, but my good 
> lady is so used to her iPhone mobile, she struggles to remember how to 
> use our Panasonic DECT handsets, which for many years were our primary 
> method of calling folks...
> 
> .. the world moves on...
> 
> Dave
> 

Well there is an edge case for knowing how to wire a plug. My adult son was
putting together a lamp on a wine bottle with one of those kits. That did
require adding the plug as the flex needs to be threaded through a hole in
the bottle. Here was his wiring rationale, which to be fair has some logic:
Green/yellow - that looks exciting, must be live.
Brown - earthy colour must be Earth.

Fortunately the RCD tripped. 

As to car manuals, there’s lots of information about the various driver
assist, safety and infotainment systems that needs to be communicated. What
annoys me is that the manual for my car is a 650 page monster. (PDF, but no
objection to that). It covers every possible variant and option of that
vehicle so it’s hard to work out what is relevant to your particular
vehicle. Given that the vehicle is put together on a computer controlled
line, it ought to be possible to have a website where you type in the VIN
to generate a pdf manual that matches the vehicle. 

As to other lost skills my other adult son had to ask me where you stick a
stamp on an envelope. 

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#249770

On 05/09/2026 07:15, Tweed wrote:
> As to other lost skills my other adult son had to ask me where you stick a
> stamp on an envelope.


Good job that the stamps you have to lick have been replaced (I think), 
I can imagine him wondering how to stick it on the envelope.

I just print all my postage, especially useful now we do not have a Post 
Office in the town.

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#249771

On 05/09/2026 07:15, Tweed wrote:
> David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
>> On 04/09/2026 23:06, JMB99 wrote:
>>> On 04/09/2026 12:11, David Wade wrote:
>>>> Why would a modern car manual contain such outdated info. Modern cars
>>>> are pretty much maintenance free.  You needed to set the tappets
>>>> often, they wore. Modern cars have hydraulic tappets that don't need
>>>> setting. Plug gaps don't change and the have electronic ignition so no
>>>> points or timing.
>>>
>>>
>>> But most cars will have lots of systems, some of which need a
>>> description on how to operate them and many the drivers will possibly be
>>> unaware of.
>>>
>>> I am not suggesting they should be an equivalent of the old Haynes manual.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> As I said, they do. My ID.4 manual has lots of info on the car. I do
>> remember on one of my previous cars being unable to work out how to
>> delete a character when entering a post code into the satnav. It had an
>> on-screen keyboard and a knob that let you select a letter, but if you
>> made a mistake there was no back or delete on the keyboard. I later
>> discovered you used the "back" button next to the knob.
>>
>> I do find a fascination with obsolete skills strange. I oft see remarks
>> like "no one can change a plug", whilst its true, by law every appliance
>> comes with moulded plug, most have a replaceable lead, so in the rare
>> event the plug is damaged, you just order a new one from Amazon and
>> weight in the old one for scrap copper.
>>
>> So whilst its true that I can use a slide rule, hand punch a Hollerith
>> card, and change a rewirable fuse, remembering to wind the wire the
>> correct way round the screws, I can't see me using ever using these
>> skills in anger, so no point in anyone else learning them...
>>
>> .. as for using a dial phone, well not exactly the same, but my good
>> lady is so used to her iPhone mobile, she struggles to remember how to
>> use our Panasonic DECT handsets, which for many years were our primary
>> method of calling folks...
>>
>> .. the world moves on...
>>
>> Dave
>>
> 
> Well there is an edge case for knowing how to wire a plug. My adult son was
> putting together a lamp on a wine bottle with one of those kits. That did
> require adding the plug as the flex needs to be threaded through a hole in
> the bottle. Here was his wiring rationale, which to be fair has some logic:
> Green/yellow - that looks exciting, must be live.
> Brown - earthy colour must be Earth.
> 
> Fortunately the RCD tripped.

Lucky you had an RCD many still don't. There is usually a card on the 
bottom of a new plug showing the colour code, which you should remove, 
but many don't, and just leave it in place.


> 
> As to car manuals, there’s lots of information about the various driver
> assist, safety and infotainment systems that needs to be communicated. What
> annoys me is that the manual for my car is a 650 page monster. (PDF, but no
> objection to that). It covers every possible variant and option of that
> vehicle so it’s hard to work out what is relevant to your particular
> vehicle. Given that the vehicle is put together on a computer controlled
> line, it ought to be possible to have a website where you type in the VIN
> to generate a pdf manual that matches the vehicle.
> 

Mine is a mere 75 pages, but it says to keep in the car, but if I do 
that how can I get into the car when the power fails and I need to find 
the hidden keyhole.

> As to other lost skills my other adult son had to ask me where you stick a
> stamp on an envelope.
> 

Bit surprised he managed the writing or printing bit. I just use the 
print a label on-line...

Dave

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#249777

On 05/09/2026 00:02, David Wade wrote:

> As I said, they do. My ID.4 manual has lots of info on the car. I do 
> remember on one of my previous cars being unable to work out how to 
> delete a character when entering a post code into the satnav.

I do remember on  hire car trying to enter a place name in the sat nav 
and suddenly half the letters on the virtual keypad disappeared. A sort 
of predictive next letter function where it removed keyboard access to 
stop you typing in a place name not in its data base (or a misspelt name) .

-- 
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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#249780

In article <117fimq$uh8p$1@dont-email.me>, David Wade
<g4ugm@dave.invalid> writes
<snip>
>I do find a fascination with obsolete skills strange. I oft see remarks like "no 
>one can change a plug", whilst its true, by law every appliance comes with 
>moulded plug, most have a replaceable lead, so in the rare event the plug is 
>damaged, you just order a new one from Amazon and weight in the old one for 
>scrap copper.
<snip>

I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
-- 
John Hall 

                    "The covers of this book are too far apart."   
                                      Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914)

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#249781

On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
>someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
>worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
>results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.

If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.

Rod.

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#249782

On 07/09/2026 09:00, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
>> someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
>> worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
>> results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
> 
> If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
> moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
> little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
> 
> Rod.
Yes but does he remember what the wire colours mean?
-- 
Dave W

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#249783

On Mon, 7 Sep 2026 12:12:28 +0100, Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 07/09/2026 09:00, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
>>> someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
>>> worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
>>> results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
>> 
>> If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
>> moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
>> little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
>> 
>> Rod.
>Yes but does he remember what the wire colours mean?

There are only three of them and they're in every home. How difficult
can it be? It's not like being a professional who has to remember the
resistor colour code and wiring codes like Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
Slate, and then White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet.

Not only are there just three colours to remember, but your life can
quite literally depend on getting them right. You'd think it would be
worth the effort.

Rod.

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#249784

On 08/09/2026 08:54, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Sep 2026 12:12:28 +0100, Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> On 07/09/2026 09:00, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
>>>> someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
>>>> worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
>>>> results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
>>>
>>> If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
>>> moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
>>> little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
>>>
>>> Rod.
>> Yes but does he remember what the wire colours mean?
> 
> There are only three of them and they're in every home. How difficult
> can it be? It's not like being a professional who has to remember the
> resistor colour code and wiring codes like Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
> Slate, and then White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet.
> 
> Not only are there just three colours to remember,

Three?  Red, black and what?

Two's quite enough.

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#249785

Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
> On 08/09/2026 08:54, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Sep 2026 12:12:28 +0100, Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>> On 07/09/2026 09:00, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 6 Sep 2026 20:40:03 +0100, John Hall <john@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I was very glad when it ceased to be necessary to wire a plug. As
>>>>> someone who is very maladroit, it was a struggle, and I was always
>>>>> worried that I might have done it incorrectly, with possible dire
>>>>> results for the piece of equipment or the mains fuse.
>>>> 
>>>> If you look carefully, you will see that the letters L N and E are
>>>> moulded into the plastic, and new ones are often supplied with a
>>>> little piece of cardboard with a diagram showing the colours.
>>>> 
>>>> Rod.
>>> Yes but does he remember what the wire colours mean?
>> 
>> There are only three of them and they're in every home. How difficult
>> can it be? It's not like being a professional who has to remember the
>> resistor colour code and wiring codes like Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
>> Slate, and then White, Red, Black, Yellow, Violet.
>> 
>> Not only are there just three colours to remember,
> 
> Three?  Red, black and what?
> 
> Two's quite enough.
> 

New appliances and mains plugs intended for you to fit yourself are
supposed to come with a wiring diagram safety card fitted round the pins.
That card shows how to wire the plug and also details the colour of the
wires. 

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#249787

On 08/09/2026 09:13, Tweed wrote:
> New appliances and mains plugs intended for you to fit yourself are
> supposed to come with a wiring diagram safety card fitted round the pins.
> That card shows how to wire the plug and also details the colour of the
> wires.



New appliances are required to come with the mains plug already fitted 
or a removable lead with the plug fitted.


https://www.morvantrading.co.uk/uk-plugs-must-be-factory-fitted/

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#249796

On 08/09/2026 09:13, Tweed wrote:
> New appliances and mains plugs intended for you to fit yourself are
> supposed to come with a wiring diagram safety card fitted round the pins.
> That card shows how to wire the plug and also details the colour of the
> wires.

I have had to wire removable plugs onto several appliances in the 
kitchen when the cable has been fed through a cable-sized hole in the 
kitchen cabinets. For example, the socket for the dishwasher is inside a 
cupboard that is alongside the gap where the dishwasher goes. Maybe the 
previous owners of our house had it done like that to keep the mains 
socket separate from the water supply and drain hose.

The dishwasher that was already in the house had had the moulded plug 
cut off and a removable one fitted in its place after the cable had been 
fed through the hole in the cabinet. When we had to replace that 
dishwasher, I chose to make up my own short extension lead (wire a plug 
on one end and a socket on the other, with the cupboards wall in 
between) so as to preserve the moulded on plug, because some appliance 
manufacturers say that replacing the plug voids the whole warranty.

I hope I did a textbook job of cutting the wires to the correct lengths, 
so the live and neutral wires are shorter than the earth so if the cable 
is yanked hard, L and N detach before E. And I twisted the strands of 
the wires and pared back only just enough to allow the wire, folded back 
on itself, to fit into the hole in the pin, without protruding beyond 
the far side or leaving exposed wire between pin and insulation. And 
then I screwed the cable clamp and proved that tugging on the cable did 
not cause it to pull on the wires.

I know the old red/black/green and new brown/blue/green-and-yellow wire 
colours (LNE, in that order). I'm not so familiar with fuse colours, so 
I always check the number (3 or 13 amp) to be certain. I do a quick 
calculation to make sure that I only use a 13 A fuse for an appliance 
that actually needs it.

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#249797

On 13/09/2026 21:28, NY wrote:
> On 08/09/2026 09:13, Tweed wrote:
>> New appliances and mains plugs intended for you to fit yourself are
>> supposed to come with a wiring diagram safety card fitted round the pins.
>> That card shows how to wire the plug and also details the colour of the
>> wires.
> 
> I have had to wire removable plugs onto several appliances in the 
> kitchen when the cable has been fed through a cable-sized hole in the 
> kitchen cabinets. For example, the socket for the dishwasher is inside a 
> cupboard that is alongside the gap where the dishwasher goes. Maybe the 
> previous owners of our house had it done like that to keep the mains 
> socket separate from the water supply and drain hose.
> 
> The dishwasher that was already in the house had had the moulded plug 
> cut off and a removable one fitted in its place after the cable had been 
> fed through the hole in the cabinet. When we had to replace that 
> dishwasher, I chose to make up my own short extension lead (wire a plug 
> on one end and a socket on the other, with the cupboards wall in 
> between) so as to preserve the moulded on plug, because some appliance 
> manufacturers say that replacing the plug voids the whole warranty.
> 
> I hope I did a textbook job of cutting the wires to the correct lengths, 
> so the live and neutral wires are shorter than the earth so if the cable 
> is yanked hard, L and N detach before E. And I twisted the strands of 
> the wires and pared back only just enough to allow the wire, folded back 
> on itself, to fit into the hole in the pin, without protruding beyond 
> the far side or leaving exposed wire between pin and insulation. And 
> then I screwed the cable clamp and proved that tugging on the cable did 
> not cause it to pull on the wires.
> 
> I know the old red/black/green and new brown/blue/green-and-yellow wire 
> colours (LNE, in that order). I'm not so familiar with fuse colours, so 
> I always check the number (3 or 13 amp) to be certain. I do a quick 
> calculation to make sure that I only use a 13 A fuse for an appliance 
> that actually needs it.

Realistically, your made up plug to socket cable can be fused at 13A 
because whatever you plug into it will have a moulded on plug with the 
correct fuse rating for the device.  That will save you having to worry 
about the fuse rating in your extension lead.

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#249798

On 2026-09-14 09:46, Indy Jess John wrote:
>
> On 13/09/2026 21:28, NY wrote:
>>
>> I know the old red/black/green and new brown/blue/green-and-yellow 
>> wire colours (LNE, in that order). I'm not so familiar with fuse 
>> colours, so I always check the number (3 or 13 amp) to be certain. I 
>> do a quick calculation to make sure that I only use a 13 A fuse for an 
>> appliance that actually needs it.
> 
> Realistically, your made up plug to socket cable can be fused at 13A 
> because whatever you plug into it will have a moulded on plug with the 
> correct fuse rating for the device.  That will save you having to worry 
> about the fuse rating in your extension lead.

NOT NECESSARILY TRUE!  The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect 
everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY built 
as he described.  If he used 13A rated cable to make up the extension, 
then yes, a 13A fuse would be fine, but if he only used, say, 5A rated 
cable, then a 5A plug fuse would be required to protect it, if 3A rated 
cable, a 3A fuse, and so on.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#249799

On 2026-09-14 10:19, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2026-09-14 09:46, Indy Jess John wrote:
>>
>> On 13/09/2026 21:28, NY wrote:
>>>
>>> I know the old red/black/green and new brown/blue/green-and-yellow 
>>> wire colours (LNE, in that order). I'm not so familiar with fuse 
>>> colours, so I always check the number (3 or 13 amp) to be certain. I 
>>> do a quick calculation to make sure that I only use a 13 A fuse for 
>>> an appliance that actually needs it.
>>
>> Realistically, your made up plug to socket cable can be fused at 13A 
>> because whatever you plug into it will have a moulded on plug with the 
>> correct fuse rating for the device.  That will save you having to 
>> worry about the fuse rating in your extension lead.
> 
> NOT NECESSARILY TRUE!  The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect 
> everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY built 
> as he described.  If he used 13A rated cable to make up the extension, 
> then yes, a 13A fuse would be fine, but if he only used, say, 5A rated 
> cable, then a 5A plug fuse would be required to protect it, if 3A rated 
> cable, a 3A fuse, and so on.

Apropos of which, it occurred to me after posting the above that it was 
a very long time since last I checked the fuse in any equipment that I 
had purchased, which long time since I used to do as a matter of course, 
because it was common to find plugs incorrectly fused when purchasing 
electrical equipment.  Here are the inconsistent results of a brief 
trawl through my shed:

Flymo 5A rated power cable, 13A fuse now changed to 5A.
Flymo 5A rated extension lead, 13A fuse now changed to 5A.
Flymo strimmer 5A rated power cable and 5A fuse, correct.
2 x self-made 5A rated extension cables, 5A fuses, correct.
MacAllister angle grinder, 5A rated cable, 13A fuse now changed to 5A.
Heavy duty 1200W rated hammer drill, 13A cable and fuse, correct.
Battery chargers for mower and strimmer, 3A cables and fuses, correct.

Thank you for your unintentional prompt for me to do a safety check!

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#249800

In article <1188e76$1ckr7$1@dont-email.me>,
   Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

> NOT NECESSARILY TRUE!  The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
> everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
> built as he described.  

I almost agree. The single purpose of the fuse in a plug is to
protect the cable that follows it, NOT the appliance. If the
appliance needs protection the manufacturer should add that to
the appliance. 

> If he used 13A rated cable to make up the
> extension, then yes, a 13A fuse would be fine, but if he only
> used, say, 5A rated cable, then a 5A plug fuse would be required
> to protect it, if 3A rated cable, a 3A fuse, and so on.

I do agree with that.

Bob.

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#249801

On 2026-09-14 19:07, Bob Latham wrote:
> In article <1188e76$1ckr7$1@dont-email.me>,
>     Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> NOT NECESSARILY TRUE!  The purpose of the plug fuse is to protect
>> everything beyond it, which includes the extension cable that NY
>> built as he described.
> 
> I almost agree. The single purpose of the fuse in a plug is to
> protect the cable that follows it, NOT the appliance. If the
> appliance needs protection the manufacturer should add that to
> the appliance.

No, the purpose of the plug fuse is as I stated, to protect EVERYTHING 
that lies beyond it:

<https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+purpose+of+the+fuse+in+an+english+mains+plug>

If manufacturers wish to provide additional protection to any given 
appliance to prevent avoidable damage to sensitive and perhaps expensive 
equipment, potentially including damage caused by the user supplying the 
wrong plug fuse, then of course that is their choice.  AFAIAA, although 
there may be specific types of appliance where regulations stipulate 
some sort of extra protection, generally speaking it isn't required by 
law.  For example, in a bedside lamp, you don't find an additional fuse 
between the cable from the plug and the actual light bulb.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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