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Groups > uk.tech.broadcast > #70556 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-09-26 19:08 +0100 |
| Last post | 2026-09-27 13:12 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 159 — 24 participants |
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Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-26 19:08 +0100
Re: OT - TV Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-26 19:58 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-26 20:30 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-27 09:39 +0100
Re: OT - TV JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-28 08:08 +0100
Re: OT - TV Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-26 19:10 +0000
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-26 21:02 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-26 21:03 +0100
Re: OT - TV Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-27 18:20 +0000
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-28 16:26 +0100
Re: OT - TV Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-28 15:45 +0000
Re: OT - TV Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-28 16:30 +0000
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-28 17:46 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-28 22:25 +0100
Re: OT - TV NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-29 16:40 +0100
OT - Lehrer (was: Re: OT - TV) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-29 16:58 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer (was: Re: OT - TV) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-29 18:19 +0000
Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-29 20:57 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-09-29 20:00 +0000
Re: OT - Lehrer (was: Re: OT - TV) André Coutanche <acoutanche@gmx.co.uk> - 2026-09-29 21:50 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-29 22:33 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-29 22:48 +0000
Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 01:07 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 15:51 -0700
Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-10-01 10:57 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-30 08:10 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 01:39 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2026-09-30 00:46 +0000
Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-29 22:39 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-30 12:25 +0000
Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 13:34 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 14:31 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-30 14:47 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 14:58 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 02:36 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-10-01 11:12 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:35 +0000
Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-10-01 16:14 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-01 17:35 +0000
Re: OT - Lehrer Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-01 17:53 +0000
Re: OT - Lehrer John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-01 19:03 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 21:50 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-02 12:25 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 11:13 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-10-01 11:51 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 14:55 +0100
Re: OT - Lehrer Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-09-30 14:15 +0000
Re: OT - TV Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-09-27 19:58 +1000
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-27 12:52 +0100
Re: OT - TV Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-09-27 22:13 +1000
[OT] - audio distribution, Rediffusion-style (was: Re: OT - TV) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-28 16:43 +0100
Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-27 11:44 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-27 16:12 +0100
Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-27 18:12 +0100
Re: OT - TV Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-27 18:23 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-27 18:34 +0100
Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-28 14:03 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-28 15:56 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-28 16:46 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-28 17:16 +0100
Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-29 12:01 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 13:05 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-29 13:25 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-29 14:13 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Other John <nomail@here.org> - 2026-09-29 16:53 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 17:12 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-30 10:22 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 13:36 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:23 +0200
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:48 +0100
Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-09-30 07:37 -0400
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 14:28 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 00:35 +0200
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 02:15 +0100
Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-01 00:15 -0400
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:50 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:24 +0200
Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-10-01 17:17 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:48 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-10-01 13:10 +0100
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-01 13:42 +0100
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-01 13:32 +0100
Re: OT - TV Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:52 +0000
Re: OT - TV Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-10-03 21:10 +1000
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-03 13:39 +0200
Re: OT - TV Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-10-04 21:26 +1100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-04 13:19 +0200
Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-04 10:36 -0400
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-04 19:18 +0200
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-03 12:47 +0100
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-03 12:50 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-03 13:09 +0100
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-03 15:59 +0100
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-03 15:56 +0000
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-03 17:19 +0100
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 10:54 +0000
Re: OT - TV c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-05 01:27 -0400
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-05 07:55 +0000
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-05 14:54 +0200
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-05 15:17 +0000
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-05 11:29 +0100
Re: OT - TV Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-10-05 11:46 +0100
Re: OT - TV JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-10-06 17:51 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-06 18:58 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-06 20:36 +0200
Re: OT - TV JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-10-07 09:00 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-07 11:04 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-07 12:21 +0200
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-07 11:54 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-07 12:37 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-07 12:00 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-07 12:06 +0200
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-07 12:02 +0100
Re: OT - TV Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2026-10-07 15:29 +0100
Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-06 14:40 -0400
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-07 08:02 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-05 12:47 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-06 00:23 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-03 18:41 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-03 22:52 +0100
Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-03 21:24 -0400
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-04 08:08 +0000
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-04 09:29 +0100
Re: OT - TV Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-30 15:13 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-29 13:16 +0100
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-29 15:54 +0000
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 17:15 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:27 +0200
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 11:13 +0100
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 11:19 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:57 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-30 13:29 +0100
Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 13:54 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 14:34 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-30 18:08 +0100
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 02:22 +0100
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-01 06:37 +0000
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-10-01 10:32 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-10-01 09:41 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 00:37 +0200
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:50 +0100
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-30 13:08 +0000
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 00:50 +0200
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-01 06:12 +0000
Re: OT - TV c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-01 03:29 -0400
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:53 +0200
Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-01 03:32 -0400
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:49 +0200
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:57 +0100
Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-10-01 13:27 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 15:19 +0200
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:34 +0000
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 15:51 +0100
Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-02 06:52 +0000
Re: OT - TV Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-10-04 07:52 +0100
Re: OT - TV c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-04 03:15 -0400
Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-04 15:51 +0100
Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-04 18:16 +0100
Re: OT - TV "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-27 13:12 +0200
Page 6 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 Next page →
| From | John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-05 11:29 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <nihcgmFekvoU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70719 |
On 05/10/2026 06:27, c186282 wrote: > On 10/4/26 06:54, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> I have these for on a boat: >> 250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >> >> Now in use as backup for my computers, as the UPS battery gave up after >> constantly coming in since the power company changed their meter for a >> 'smart' >> one and removed the connection of neutral to local ground, >> causing a voltage drop. >> So much for improvement, now you pay more for their cable losses?? >> >> That battery pack runs microwave and fridge too if needed >> I have 3 large flexible solar panels for on a boat. >> And a small fixed 80 W one upstair in a window. >> Several solar powered flashights too, some with hand crank. > > > LIPo batts CAN still explode for no obvious > reason. Got a scar to prove it. > Lithium Polymer batteries are, as you say, prone to thermal runaway if overcharged, run too flat or the day has a "y" in it. They are currently used in phones, laptops, tablets, e-bikes and some cars. LiFePO4 batteries, on the other hand are currently being used in many thousands of boats as power supplies for the domestic stuff, and I have yet to hear one report of an explosion or fire that was not started by ancillary equipment. The cells are usually still intact after the fire. You *can*, if you are determined enough, make the cells ignite by, say, repeatedly using an ice pick to puncture them, but it needs to be a metal pick, so that it shorts out the internal structures and even then, as long as you stand upwind, the fumes won't hurt you. > Future/NOW ... look into sodium batteries. Plenty > on Amazon. Almost as good as LIPo bur DON'T blow > up in your face and set everything on fire. Seems > the usual charge circuits for lead-acid work fine > for sodium, though sodium CAN be charged faster. > I just searched for "sodium battery" on Amazon UK. Not a single one in the resuktys, but I *was* offered lead acid of various types, as well as a number of Lithium based batteries of various tyoes. Do you have a link for a sodium battery on Amazon? The problem is that the cell voltages need clever electronics to use them with normal equipment, as it varies between 3.1 and 1.5 volts per cell in normal use. The energy density is not much more than half that of Lithium based batteries. > AM looking to make a semi-decent DC power storage > unit - probably solar charged. Doesn't have to be > huge, maybe ten or fifteen thousand kva, above the > 'consumer' UPS units. A 120vac take-off is required > of course, but want 12vdc too. NOT an 'off-grid > solution' ... just a 'fill-in'. But, DO want the > sodium batteries. > You want ten to 15 megawatt hours and you call it "small"? :-0 That is well into pumped electrolyte utility company territory. (I have about 4kVA on the boat, and that lasts me a couple of days, as long as I don't use the immersion heater.) > Fair, stackable, commercial units : > > https://xpcc.com/xtreme-power-sodium-ups/ > I'd want rather more run time than they offer. At full power, you don't even get enough time to log off.... -- Tciao for Now! John.
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-05 11:46 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <nihdh7FepipU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70721 |
John Williamson wrote: > c186282 wrote: > >> Future/NOW ... look into sodium batteries. Plenty >> on Amazon. Almost as good as LIPo bur DON'T blow >> up in your face and set everything on fire. Seems >> the usual charge circuits for lead-acid work fine >> for sodium, though sodium CAN be charged faster. >> > I just searched for "sodium battery" on Amazon UK. Not a single one in > the resuktys, but I *was* offered lead acid of various types, as well as > a number of Lithium based batteries of various tyoes. > > Do you have a link for a sodium battery on Amazon? I've seen it demonstrated that a Sodium-ion battery is basically just as easy to puncture causing thermal runaway and catching fire as a Lithium-ion battery ...
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| From | JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-06 17:51 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a38uf$24fks$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70722 |
Got me thinking, military vehicles can have self-sealing fuel tanks but if they have to start using Battery Vehicles, what happens if the battery is hit?
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| From | "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-06 18:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a3ct0$263l5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70730 |
On 2026/10/6 17:51:26, JMB99 wrote: > Got me thinking, military vehicles can have self-sealing fuel tanks but > if they have to start using Battery Vehicles, what happens if the > battery is hit? Presumably systems can be devised to treat the battery as multiple units, and switch round damaged ones. Obviously this can only go so far - as can self-sealing fuel tanks. (Really, those should also be a collection of small tanks, with a mechanism for switching round them.) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf ... basically it's another language and unless you've studied it, it's difficult to grasp. I know people get outraged at me saying it, but it's only my opinion. I'm not telling people who adore Shakespeare to stop adoring it this minute. - Jane Horrocks, in Radio Times 30 July - 5 August 2011
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-06 20:36 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <niktcpFglmU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70730 |
On 2026-10-06 18:51, JMB99 wrote:
> Got me thinking, military vehicles can have self-sealing fuel tanks but
> if they have to start using Battery Vehicles, what happens if the
> battery is hit?
Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been using
batteries and continue to do so.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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| From | JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 09:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a4u79$2lnse$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70734 |
On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote: > Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been using > batteries and continue to do so. At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 11:04 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a55g7$2nipf$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70739 |
On 07/10/2026 09:00, JMB99 wrote: > On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been using >> batteries and continue to do so. > > > > At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids. Of course not. Hybrids actually are practical and mostly work. And certainly reduce urban emissions mightily And you get a good balance between massive acceleration for e,g, overtaking and having fun, with decent fuel economy in a stop start scenario, and no worse economy than a similar turbodiesel etc on a long constant speed run. -- “Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of a car with the cramped public exposure of an airplane.” Dennis Miller
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 12:21 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <nimkp8F7onlU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70743 |
On 2026-10-07 12:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 07/10/2026 09:00, JMB99 wrote:
>> On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been
>>> using batteries and continue to do so.
>>
>>
>>
>> At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids.
>
> Of course not. Hybrids actually are practical and mostly work. And
> certainly reduce urban emissions mightily
>
> And you get a good balance between massive acceleration for e,g,
> overtaking and having fun, with decent fuel economy in a stop start
> scenario, and no worse economy than a similar turbodiesel etc on a long
> constant speed run.
That's the theory. I have been a fan of hybrids for decades. But they
have been perverted: huge cars with tiny batteries that drink gasoline
as cossacks, yet get the ECO label.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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| From | John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 11:54 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <nimmmgF8q0lU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70745 |
On 07/10/2026 11:21, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On 2026-10-07 12:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 07/10/2026 09:00, JMB99 wrote: >>> On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote: >>>> Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been >>>> using batteries and continue to do so. >>> >>> >>> >>> At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids. >> >> Of course not. Hybrids actually are practical and mostly work. And >> certainly reduce urban emissions mightily >> >> And you get a good balance between massive acceleration for e,g, >> overtaking and having fun, with decent fuel economy in a stop start >> scenario, and no worse economy than a similar turbodiesel etc on a >> long constant speed run. > > That's the theory. I have been a fan of hybrids for decades. But they > have been perverted: huge cars with tiny batteries that drink gasoline > as cossacks, yet get the ECO label. > Hybrids are intended for use in traffic with frequent stops and starts. The engine only needs enough power to keep it rolling at its maximum speed. The battery only needs to hold enough energy to help accelerate it away to the sped limit from a stop once or twice. As the IC engine is small, it is working at close to its maximum efficiency most of the time, as against the traditional vehicle engine which is pretty close to idling except for a few seconds as you pull away for the lights. This is why the early Toyota Prius taxis could get up to 50 mpg round town and still pull away very quickly. Small engine, big motor and a battery that was almost fully cycled at every junction. A well designed hybrid will also recover kinetic energy when you slow down. "Plug in" hybrids are, basically, an electric vehicle with a range extender. They use the IC engine at high speed out of town and the electric motor in town to reduce local emissions. For long fast trips out of town, you still need a big engine, and the battery is more or less a waste of space. A bus company I used to work for discovered this the expensive way when they bought a batch of hybrid buses for a new inter town route, The engines were over worked when they were out of town so they were using more fuel than the normal ones, and the overload also caused problems witn reliability. -- Tciao for Now! John.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 12:37 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a5at8$2nipf$18@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70746 |
On 07/10/2026 11:54, John Williamson wrote: > On 07/10/2026 11:21, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> On 2026-10-07 12:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 07/10/2026 09:00, JMB99 wrote: >>>> On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote: >>>>> Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been >>>>> using batteries and continue to do so. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids. >>> >>> Of course not. Hybrids actually are practical and mostly work. And >>> certainly reduce urban emissions mightily >>> >>> And you get a good balance between massive acceleration for e,g, >>> overtaking and having fun, with decent fuel economy in a stop start >>> scenario, and no worse economy than a similar turbodiesel etc on a >>> long constant speed run. >> >> That's the theory. I have been a fan of hybrids for decades. But they >> have been perverted: huge cars with tiny batteries that drink gasoline >> as cossacks, yet get the ECO label. >> > Hybrids are intended for use in traffic with frequent stops and starts. > The engine only needs enough power to keep it rolling at its maximum > speed. The battery only needs to hold enough energy to help accelerate > it away to the sped limit from a stop once or twice. As the IC engine is > small, it is working at close to its maximum efficiency most of the > time, as against the traditional vehicle engine which is pretty close to > idling except for a few seconds as you pull away for the lights. This is > why the early Toyota Prius taxis could get up to 50 mpg round town and > still pull away very quickly. Small engine, big motor and a battery that > was almost fully cycled at every junction. > > A well designed hybrid will also recover kinetic energy when you slow down. > > "Plug in" hybrids are, basically, an electric vehicle with a range > extender. They use the IC engine at high speed out of town and the > electric motor in town to reduce local emissions. > > For long fast trips out of town, you still need a big engine, and the > battery is more or less a waste of space. A bus company I used to work > for discovered this the expensive way when they bought a batch of hybrid > buses for a new inter town route, The engines were over worked when they > were out of town so they were using more fuel than the normal ones, and > the overload also caused problems witn reliability. People I know with hybrids say the economy is *no worse* with the hybrid on a long trip, at fairly steady legal speeds, than an equivalent turbodiesel. It just isn't any *better*. Where it scores is in town where the regen braking and the ability to run off the battery alone for stop start crawl until the battery is depleted, when the engine cuts in to recharge the battery. Typically halving fuel used Regen braking and no idling is the key -- “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.” Herbert Spencer
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 12:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a58ou$2nipf$15@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70745 |
On 07/10/2026 11:21, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On 2026-10-07 12:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 07/10/2026 09:00, JMB99 wrote: >>> On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote: >>>> Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been >>>> using batteries and continue to do so. >>> >>> >>> >>> At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids. >> >> Of course not. Hybrids actually are practical and mostly work. And >> certainly reduce urban emissions mightily >> >> And you get a good balance between massive acceleration for e,g, >> overtaking and having fun, with decent fuel economy in a stop start >> scenario, and no worse economy than a similar turbodiesel etc on a >> long constant speed run. > > That's the theory. I have been a fan of hybrids for decades. But they > have been perverted: huge cars with tiny batteries that drink gasoline > as cossacks, yet get the ECO label. > They are lower emissions in towns, if not overall. But that is what you get with the EU. Renewable Obligatins that mandate renewable energy that doesn't actually work to reduce emissions and is expensive. Hybrid cars that don't actually work to reduce emissions and are expensive BUT the car makers and renewable companies are making money! And that's all that really matters -- There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent renewable energy.
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| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 12:06 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <nimjtkF7onlU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #70739 |
On 2026-10-07 10:00, JMB99 wrote:
> On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been using
>> batteries and continue to do so.
>
>
>
> At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids.
The Spanish S80 series uses bioethanol :-p
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 12:02 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a58rl$2nipf$16@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70744 |
On 07/10/2026 11:06, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On 2026-10-07 10:00, JMB99 wrote: >> On 06/10/2026 19:36, Carlos E. R. wrote: >>> Do you consider submarines as "Vehicles"? Because they have been >>> using batteries and continue to do so. >> >> >> >> At least most are 'hybrids'. The Greenie purists don't like hybrids. > > The Spanish S80 series uses bioethanol :-p > You would be surprised how much diesel it takes to sow, weed, fertilise, harvest and process a gallon of biodiesel. -- Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
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| From | Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 15:29 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a5l0g$2uq79$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70748 |
The Natural Philosopher wrote: [snip] >> > You would be surprised how much diesel it takes to sow, weed, fertilise, > harvest and process a gallon of biodiesel. By contrast, biomethane could be virtually free. There are many currently untapped sources of biological waste: not only animal manure, but straw and the like from grain crops, culled animals, abattoir waste, wood waste from building and industry, industrial food processing waste, and sewage, as well as human cadavers (which might otherwise be incinerated at a cost of about 240kg of CO2 each). I am aware that some sewage may already be processed to generate methane, so it's clear that the collection mechanism (in the form of underground pipes from almost every urban household), and the processing mechanism already exists. The mechanism of delivering methane from these processing facilities to the gas grid may well also exist. I think biomethane can be used to create a liquid fuel suitable for IC engines. -- Graham J
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-06 14:40 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <11a3fas$2749n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70730 |
On Tue, 10/6/2026 12:51 PM, JMB99 wrote: > Got me thinking, military vehicles can have self-sealing fuel tanks > but if they have to start using Battery Vehicles, > what happens if the battery is hit? You fill out a requisition for a new battery :-) Your A-Battery is on the left side of the vehicle, your B-Battery is on the right side of the vehicle. You use the transfer switch, from A to B. Lots of military and enterprise devices, use 1+1 redundancy for the hardware. If you look at consumer passenger cars, two trim levels, one can have "12 modules", the other can have "15 modules". They are arranged in a slab, and the slab also functions as a strength member for the vehicle. To work on that is definitely garage material. A military vehicle, will have servicing requirements different than that. To do field service, like McGyver, the arrangement has to be different. You need "pretty secure" connections on the batteries in cars. Inside a module, if using 18650 cells, you'd want a cold spot welded conductor from one cell to the next. They don't use nylon "battery holders" like some of your old consumer goods used. If a connection goes ohmic, that causes a hot spot in the battery chain. Welding the batteries, now we just have to worry about the connections at the module level. You might see big fat cables in the picture. A module should have a BMS, and the BMS should be able to disable the module for some problem-classes. BMS come as a circuit board, a tiny board in some applications, a larger board where there is room for a larger board. In some battery packs (the 56V pack for a lawn mower), the BMS is covered in silicon seal to make it impossible to get at (and fix). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_management_system A BMS doesn't have to be bussed, but it makes sense to bus the status of them, for easy readout by the CANBUS in the vehicle. You can see there are some degrees of freedom in the design, and a military solution could look a bit different than the consumer car version. Battery maintenance hardly ever happens on the consumer version, because if you make a warranty claim... they will claim a replacement part is not available and that's the end of it. When you install a BEV battery, the installation must be "blessed by a priest". It is not just a matter of screwing some bits together, turning the key and driving away. The parts are "registered" with the car, the dealership has the device to perform a marriage. The ghetto mechanic does not have that device. If you stick a new battery in a car, without the marriage, the contactor will not close and the battery will refuse to power the motors. There's no reason the military version won't be doing this too :-) Paul
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-07 08:02 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a4qpv$2k8fk$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70730 |
On 06/10/2026 17:51, JMB99 wrote: > Got me thinking, military vehicles can have self-sealing fuel tanks but > if they have to start using Battery Vehicles, what happens if the > battery is hit? They catch fire and brew up -- I would rather have questions that cannot be answered... ...than to have answers that cannot be questioned Richard Feynman
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-05 12:47 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a02np$sln7$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70721 |
On 05/10/2026 11:29, John Williamson wrote: > On 05/10/2026 06:27, c186282 wrote: >> On 10/4/26 06:54, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >>> I have these for on a boat: >>> 250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>> >>> Now in use as backup for my computers, as the UPS battery gave up after >>> constantly coming in since the power company changed their meter for a >>> 'smart' >>> one and removed the connection of neutral to local ground, >>> causing a voltage drop. >>> So much for improvement, now you pay more for their cable losses?? >>> >>> That battery pack runs microwave and fridge too if needed >>> I have 3 large flexible solar panels for on a boat. >>> And a small fixed 80 W one upstair in a window. >>> Several solar powered flashights too, some with hand crank. >> >> >> LIPo batts CAN still explode for no obvious >> reason. Got a scar to prove it. >> > Lithium Polymer batteries are, as you say, prone to thermal runaway if > overcharged, run too flat or the day has a "y" in it. They are currently > used in phones, laptops, tablets, e-bikes and some cars. > > LiFePO4 batteries, on the other hand are currently being used in many > thousands of boats as power supplies for the domestic stuff, and I have > yet to hear one report of an explosion or fire that was not started by > ancillary equipment. The cells are usually still intact after the fire. > You *can*, if you are determined enough, make the cells ignite by, say, > repeatedly using an ice pick to puncture them, but it needs to be a > metal pick, so that it shorts out the internal structures and even then, > as long as you stand upwind, the fumes won't hurt you. > However they are heavier >> Future/NOW ... look into sodium batteries. Plenty >> on Amazon. Almost as good as LIPo bur DON'T blow >> up in your face and set everything on fire. Seems >> the usual charge circuits for lead-acid work fine >> for sodium, though sodium CAN be charged faster. >> > I just searched for "sodium battery" on Amazon UK. Not a single one in > the resuktys, but I *was* offered lead acid of various types, as well as > a number of Lithium based batteries of various tyoes. > They are little different to lead acid. A tad lighter. Just as expensive. o no one is buying > > > -- “it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism (or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a 'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,' a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian utopia of 1984.” Vaclav Klaus
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| From | "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-06 00:23 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <11a1bi1$1eh48$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70719 |
On 2026/10/5 6:27:38, c186282 wrote: [] > AM looking to make a semi-decent DC power storage > unit - probably solar charged. Doesn't have to be [] I don't think you have to specify the "DC" part; AC storage is either pumped water, or flywheels, neither of which are within the reach of most home users! -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Money should enable life, not define worth.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-03 18:41 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <119reoe$37dqq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70699 |
On 03/10/2026 15:59, John Williamson wrote: > On 03/10/2026 13:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 03/10/2026 12:50, John Williamson wrote: >>> On occasion, 15 Volt or slightly more can be used ro equalise the >>> charge between the cells, but this will cause some of the water in the >>> electrolyte to split into hydrogen and oxygen. >> And some of the cells to split into plastic, lead, acid and a loud bang >> DAMHIKT... > > That needs a spark nearby > Yes. Removing the battery charger was plenty. -- Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.
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| From | "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-03 22:52 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <119rtfl$3cufj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #70696 |
On 2026/10/3 12:50:51, John Williamson wrote: [] > On occasion, 15 Volt or slightly more can be used ro equalise the charge > between the cells, but this will cause some of the water in the > electrolyte to split into hydrogen and oxygen. > > Which won't recombine (except explosively), so reducing the amount of electrolyte in the gassing cell, so reducing the capacity - which will thus cause that cell to be the first to start gassing next time, i. e. (slow) positive feedback. Whether this can be remedied by topping up the affected cell(s), I do not know. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
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