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Groups > uk.tech.broadcast > #70556 > unrolled thread

Re: OT - TV

Started by"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
First post2026-09-26 19:08 +0100
Last post2026-09-27 13:12 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 121 — 23 participants

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  Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-26 19:08 +0100
    Re: OT - TV Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-26 19:58 +0100
      Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-26 20:30 +0100
        Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-27 09:39 +0100
        Re: OT - TV JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> - 2026-09-28 08:08 +0100
    Re: OT - TV Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-26 19:10 +0000
      Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-26 21:02 +0100
        Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-26 21:03 +0100
          Re: OT - TV Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-27 18:20 +0000
            Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-28 16:26 +0100
              Re: OT - TV Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-28 15:45 +0000
              Re: OT - TV Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-28 16:30 +0000
                Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-28 17:46 +0100
                  Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-28 22:25 +0100
                    Re: OT - TV NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-29 16:40 +0100
                      OT - Lehrer (was: Re: OT - TV) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-29 16:58 +0100
                        Re: OT - Lehrer (was: Re: OT - TV) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-29 18:19 +0000
                          Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-29 20:57 +0100
                          Re: OT - Lehrer Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-09-29 20:00 +0000
                          Re: OT - Lehrer (was: Re: OT - TV) André Coutanche <acoutanche@gmx.co.uk> - 2026-09-29 21:50 +0100
                            Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-29 22:33 +0100
                              Re: OT - Lehrer Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-29 22:48 +0000
                                Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 01:07 +0100
                                  Re: OT - Lehrer John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 15:51 -0700
                                    Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-10-01 10:57 +0100
                                Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-30 08:10 +0100
                              Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 01:39 +0100
                                Re: OT - Lehrer Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2026-09-30 00:46 +0000
                        Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-29 22:39 +0100
                        Re: OT - Lehrer Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-30 12:25 +0000
                          Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 13:34 +0100
                          Re: OT - Lehrer The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 14:31 +0100
                            Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-09-30 14:47 +0100
                              Re: OT - Lehrer John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 14:58 +0100
                                Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 02:36 +0100
                                  Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-10-01 11:12 +0100
                                    Re: OT - Lehrer Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:35 +0000
                                      Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-10-01 16:14 +0100
                                        Re: OT - Lehrer Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-01 17:35 +0000
                                        Re: OT - Lehrer Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-10-01 17:53 +0000
                                          Re: OT - Lehrer John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-01 19:03 +0100
                                            Re: OT - Lehrer "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 21:50 +0100
                                            Re: OT - Lehrer The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-02 12:25 +0100
                              Re: OT - Lehrer The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 11:13 +0100
                                Re: OT - Lehrer NY <me@privacy.net> - 2026-10-01 11:51 +0100
                            Re: OT - Lehrer John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 14:55 +0100
                            Re: OT - Lehrer Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-09-30 14:15 +0000
      Re: OT - TV Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-09-27 19:58 +1000
        Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-27 12:52 +0100
          Re: OT - TV Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-09-27 22:13 +1000
      [OT] - audio distribution, Rediffusion-style (was: Re: OT - TV) "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-28 16:43 +0100
    Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-27 11:44 +0100
      Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-27 16:12 +0100
        Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-27 18:12 +0100
          Re: OT - TV Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-27 18:23 +0100
          Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-27 18:34 +0100
            Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-28 14:03 +0100
              Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-28 15:56 +0100
              Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-28 16:46 +0100
                Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-28 17:16 +0100
                Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-09-29 12:01 +0100
                  Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 13:05 +0100
                    Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-29 13:25 +0100
                    Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-29 14:13 +0100
                    Re: OT - TV The Other John <nomail@here.org> - 2026-09-29 16:53 +0100
                      Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 17:12 +0100
                        Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-30 10:22 +0100
                          Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 13:36 +0100
                    Re: OT - TV "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:23 +0200
                      Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:48 +0100
                      Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-09-30 07:37 -0400
                        Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 14:28 +0100
                          Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 00:35 +0200
                            Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 02:15 +0100
                              Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-01 00:15 -0400
                              Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:50 +0100
                              Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:24 +0200
                                Re: OT - TV Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> - 2026-10-01 17:17 +0100
                            Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:48 +0100
                              Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-10-01 13:10 +0100
                                Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-01 13:42 +0100
                            Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-01 13:32 +0100
                            Re: OT - TV Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:52 +0000
                              Re: OT - TV Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> - 2026-10-03 21:10 +1000
                                Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-03 13:39 +0200
                                Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-03 12:47 +0100
                                Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-03 12:50 +0100
                                  Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-03 13:09 +0100
                                    Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-10-03 15:59 +0100
                      Re: OT - TV Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2026-09-30 15:13 +0100
                  Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-29 13:16 +0100
                  Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-29 15:54 +0000
                    Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 17:15 +0100
                    Re: OT - TV "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:27 +0200
                      Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 11:13 +0100
                        Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 11:19 +0100
                          Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:57 +0100
                            Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-30 13:29 +0100
                            Re: OT - TV John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2026-09-30 13:54 +0100
                              Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 14:34 +0100
                                Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-09-30 18:08 +0100
                                Re: OT - TV "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 02:22 +0100
                                  Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-01 06:37 +0000
                                  Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-10-01 10:32 +0100
                                Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-10-01 09:41 +0100
                        Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 00:37 +0200
                      Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 11:50 +0100
                      Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-09-30 13:08 +0000
                        Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 00:50 +0200
                          Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-01 06:12 +0000
                            Re: OT - TV c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-10-01 03:29 -0400
                              Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:53 +0200
                            Re: OT - TV Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-01 03:32 -0400
                            Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:49 +0200
                          Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:57 +0100
                            Re: OT - TV liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-10-01 13:27 +0100
                            Re: OT - TV "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 15:19 +0200
                            Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:34 +0000
                              Re: OT - TV The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 15:51 +0100
                                Re: OT - TV Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-10-02 06:52 +0000
    Re: OT - TV "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-27 13:12 +0200

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#70611 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromNY <me@privacy.net>
Date2026-09-29 22:33 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119haqm$3m2fb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70610
On 29/09/2026 21:50, André Coutanche wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Sept 2026 19:19, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
>> Still, nobody could torture a rhyme like Tom Lehrer:
>>
>>      These are the only ones of which the news has come to Hah-vahd.
>>      And there may be many others but they haven't been discah-vahd.
> 
> "We'll try to stay serene and calm
> When Alabama gets the bomb"
> 
> Works perfectly in American.
And the split line-ends:

Getting ecstatic
And sorta dramatic
And doing the Vatic-
an Rag



I like

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department!" says Wernher von Braun


Pollution, pollution
Wear a gasmask and a veil
Then you can breathe
'Long as you don't inhale


The big question, of course, is what naughty line people imagine for his 
self-censored one in My Home Town (which he never actually wrote - it 
was intentionally blank).


His piss-take of Gilbert and Sullivan is spot on:

Now a pestering sister's
A festering blister
You'd better resist her, say I.

When she said I could have her
Her sister's cadaver
Must surely have turned in its crypt!

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#70613 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-09-29 22:48 +0000
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<dfXuS.524$cKfa.94@fx24.iad>
In reply to#70611
On 2026-09-29, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> On 29/09/2026 21:50, André Coutanche wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Sept 2026 19:19, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> 
>>> Still, nobody could torture a rhyme like Tom Lehrer:
>>>
>>>      These are the only ones of which the news has come to Hah-vahd.
>>>      And there may be many others but they haven't been discah-vahd.
>> 
>> "We'll try to stay serene and calm
>> When Alabama gets the bomb"
>> 
>> Works perfectly in American.
> And the split line-ends:
>
> Getting ecstatic
> And sorta dramatic
> And doing the Vatic-
> an Rag

My favourite split is:

    And you may have thought it tragic,
    Not to mention other adjec-
    tives, to think of all the weeping they will do.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#70614 — Re: OT - Lehrer

From"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Date2026-09-30 01:07 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119hjrv$3p844$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70613
On 2026/9/29 23:48:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-09-29, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 29/09/2026 21:50, André Coutanche wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Sept 2026 19:19, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still, nobody could torture a rhyme like Tom Lehrer:
>>>>
>>>>      These are the only ones of which the news has come to Hah-vahd.
>>>>      And there may be many others but they haven't been discah-vahd.
>>>
>>> "We'll try to stay serene and calm
>>> When Alabama gets the bomb"
>>>
>>> Works perfectly in American.
>> And the split line-ends:
>>
>> Getting ecstatic
>> And sorta dramatic
>> And doing the Vatic-
>> an Rag
> 
> My favourite split is:
> 
>     And you may have thought it tragic,
>     Not to mention other adjec-
>     tives, to think of all the weeping they will do.
> 
Which comes /straight/ after

When you attend a funeral
it is sad to think that sooner or l-
ater those you love will do the same for you

!

Two prime Lehrer splits in one verse!

World population has risen considerably since he wrote that (he said 3
billion).
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A lert ness should precede a round tuit.
- "Sn!pe" in eternal-september.test, 2026-5-27

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#70647 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2026-09-30 15:51 -0700
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<20260930155134.00005cef@gmail.com>
In reply to#70614
"National Brotherhood Week" is also a classic:

It's fun to eulogize/
The people you despise/
As long as you don't let them in your schools...

It's only for a week, so have no fear/
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

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#70658 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromNY <me@privacy.net>
Date2026-10-01 10:57 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119lar2$12c6o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70647
On 30/09/2026 23:51, John Ames wrote:
> "National Brotherhood Week" is also a classic:
> 
> It's fun to eulogize/
> The people you despise/
> As long as you don't let them in your schools...
> 
> It's only for a week, so have no fear/
> Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

I like
National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week
It's National Everyone-Smile-At-One-Another-Hood Week
Be nice to people who are inferior to you
It's only for a week so have no fear
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year

I love the way he manges to get a sneer into "inferior" ;-)

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#70618 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromNY <me@privacy.net>
Date2026-09-30 08:10 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119icm2$dhr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70613
On 29/09/2026 23:48, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2026-09-29, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 29/09/2026 21:50, André Coutanche wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Sept 2026 19:19, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still, nobody could torture a rhyme like Tom Lehrer:
>>>>
>>>>       These are the only ones of which the news has come to Hah-vahd.
>>>>       And there may be many others but they haven't been discah-vahd.
>>>
>>> "We'll try to stay serene and calm
>>> When Alabama gets the bomb"
>>>
>>> Works perfectly in American.
>> And the split line-ends:
>>
>> Getting ecstatic
>> And sorta dramatic
>> And doing the Vatic-
>> an Rag
> 
> My favourite split is:
> 
>      And you may have thought it tragic,
>      Not to mention other adjec-
>      tives, to think of all the weeping they will do.

That's the other one I was trying to think of.

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#70615 — Re: OT - Lehrer

From"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Date2026-09-30 01:39 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119hlod$3pq0g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70611
On 2026/9/29 22:33:10, NY wrote:
[]

> Getting ecstatic
> And sorta dramatic
> And doing the Vatic-
> an Rag
[]
There the guy who's got religion'll
tell you if your sin's original

Clearly, there are a group of us here of just the right age to have
experienced him at the age that things are memorized (even if we dpm#t
want them to be)! I hope we're encouraging some new fans to look him out
though.--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A lert ness should precede a round tuit.
- "Sn!pe" in eternal-september.test, 2026-5-27

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#70616 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromRoger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid>
Date2026-09-30 00:46 +0000
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<20260929204151@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to#70615
On 2026-09-30, J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> There the guy who's got religion'll
> tell you if your sin's original

Some have harsh words for this man of renown
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude
Like the widows and cripples in old London town
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun

-- 
  Roger Blake

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#70612 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromNY <me@privacy.net>
Date2026-09-29 22:39 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119hb6g$3m616$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70603
On 29/09/2026 16:58, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> Have you come across the orchestrated version? IMO beautifully done (I
> don't know by whom - probably himself):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsMLDzlAm_A .
> Nice story about that which I _hope_ is true - the orchestral sheet
> music parts had been handed out, but _without_ the title; little
> mutterings from the orchestra of "what a charming little waltz" (which
> it is) - then the producer tapped and said "OK - Poisoning Pigeons in
> the Park, take one", to a general dropping of jaws.

The description of this that I read said that the pianist fell off his 
piano stool with shock and/or laughter.

> Did you know he'd _specifically_ made his works - including recordings -
> public domain? Nice man.

Yes, a very public-spirited thing to do.

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#70628 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2026-09-30 12:25 +0000
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119j63i.9b0.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to#70603
J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

[About Tom Lehrer:]

> Did you know he'd _specifically_ made his works - including recordings -
> public domain? Nice man.

  Not that it matters, but according to international law (the Bern
Convention), you can't actually do that (declare your work to be public
domain). Whatever you do, you still have (misnomer:) copyright, or
better, author's rights. But you *can* declare your works to be freely
copyable, modifyable, <whatever>, which effectively amounts to - but is
not - the same as 'public domain'. (In some juridictions you have to be
dead for 70 years or so, for your work to become public domain and in
other juridiction, even that doesn't 'help'.)

  As an example, I have the 'copyright'/authors rights to this post, but
of course I implicitly give permission to copy it, but I do *not* lose
my author's right to be properly attributed when quoted, i.e. quoting
without attribution is not permitted (and yes, we have threathened with
legal action against a person who intentionally violated that author's
right over and over).

[...]

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#70630 — Re: OT - Lehrer

From"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Date2026-09-30 13:34 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119ivkf$7ato$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70628
On 2026/9/30 13:25:3, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> 
> [About Tom Lehrer:]
> 
>> Did you know he'd _specifically_ made his works - including recordings -
>> public domain? Nice man.
> 
>   Not that it matters, but according to international law (the Bern
> Convention), you can't actually do that (declare your work to be public
> domain). Whatever you do, you still have (misnomer:) copyright, or
> better, author's rights. But you *can* declare your works to be freely
> copyable, modifyable, <whatever>, which effectively amounts to - but is
> not - the same as 'public domain'. (In some juridictions you have to be
> dead for 70 years or so, for your work to become public domain and in
> other juridiction, even that doesn't 'help'.)

Interesting! But whatever the precise details of the case, TL made it
clear that anyone could copy, distribute, etc. whatever they liked of
his works, with no comeback from him or anyone else.>
>   As an example, I have the 'copyright'/authors rights to this post, but
> of course I implicitly give permission to copy it, but I do *not* lose
> my author's right to be properly attributed when quoted, i.e. quoting
> without attribution is not permitted (and yes, we have threathened with
> legal action against a person who intentionally violated that author's
> right over and over).
> 
> [...]

Good example.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

They are public servants, so we will threat them rather as Flashman
treats servants. - Stephen Fry on some people's attitudo to the BBC, in
Radio Times, 3-9 July 2010

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#70635 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-09-30 14:31 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119j2vc$8pgq$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70628
On 30/09/2026 13:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> In some juridictions you have to be
> dead for 70 years or so, for your work to become public domain and in
> other juridiction,

So no copyright on classical music anymore

-- 
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and 
wrong.

H.L.Mencken

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#70637 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromNY <me@privacy.net>
Date2026-09-30 14:47 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119j3ta$9bpe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70635
On 30/09/2026 14:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/09/2026 13:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>> In some juridictions you have to be
>> dead for 70 years or so, for your work to become public domain and in
>> other juridiction,
> 
> So no copyright on classical music anymore


I've always wondered why copyright is deemed to expire some period (eg 
70 years) after the *death* of the author, rather than dating from the 
creation/publication of the work when copyright (and now, author's 
rights) is first asserted. It means that works created when the author 
was young earn far more royalties and are protected for a lot longer 
than those created near the end of his life.

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#70639 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromJohn Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com>
Date2026-09-30 14:58 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<ni4isaFfvdfU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#70637
On 30/09/2026 14:47, NY wrote:
> On 30/09/2026 14:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 30/09/2026 13:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> In some juridictions you have to be
>>> dead for 70 years or so, for your work to become public domain and in
>>> other juridiction,
>>
>> So no copyright on classical music anymore
>
>
> I've always wondered why copyright is deemed to expire some period (eg
> 70 years) after the *death* of the author, rather than dating from the
> creation/publication of the work when copyright (and now, author's
> rights) is first asserted. It means that works created when the author
> was young earn far more royalties and are protected for a lot longer
> than those created near the end of his life.


The official reason is to provide an income for any surviving family 
members.


-- 
Tciao for Now!

John.

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#70650 — Re: OT - Lehrer

From"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
Date2026-10-01 02:36 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119kdf6$oq6h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70639
On 2026/9/30 14:58:33, John Williamson wrote:
> On 30/09/2026 14:47, NY wrote:
>> On 30/09/2026 14:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 30/09/2026 13:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>> In some juridictions you have to be
>>>> dead for 70 years or so, for your work to become public domain and in
>>>> other juridiction,
>>>
>>> So no copyright on classical music anymore
>>
No (for long-dead composers, anyway - there are composers well into the
20th century - and still alive, for that matter - who many [including
some of them themselves] would classify as "classical"). That's the
actual music; any recorded _performance_ thereof has copyright, as
arguably does any printing of the scores, if rearranged for tidiness
(and some would claim even of the original scores if the
scanning/cleanup involved significant effort). Copyright is a
complicated business, and lots of people try to claim it one way or
another! (I'm a hobby genealogist; lots of even ancient [relatively]
documents are _claimed_ by assorted bodies. I think in practice nobody
will come down on anyone doing their own genealogy, or for a friend or
even about a famous person, _unless_ they start publishing the images in
a book they actually sell.)

>>
>> I've always wondered why copyright is deemed to expire some period (eg
>> 70 years) after the *death* of the author, rather than dating from the
>> creation/publication of the work when copyright (and now, author's
>> rights) is first asserted. It means that works created when the author
>> was young earn far more royalties and are protected for a lot longer
>> than those created near the end of his life.
> 
Me too.>
> The official reason is to provide an income for any surviving family 
> members.
> 
But surely they've benefited from the earlier works already, and/or
could benefit from the later ones; I agree with NY, it seems illogical
to go from the death rather than the creation.

> 
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said the Borg, "we assimilated a Pooh."

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#70659 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromNY <me@privacy.net>
Date2026-10-01 11:12 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119lbmt$12o2l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70650
On 01/10/2026 02:36, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> On 2026/9/30 14:58:33, John Williamson wrote:
>> The official reason is to provide an income for any surviving family
>> members.
>>
> But surely they've benefited from the earlier works already, and/or
> could benefit from the later ones; I agree with NY, it seems illogical
> to go from the death rather than the creation.
Precisely. You'd think that the fairest approach would be for every work 
to be in copyright for the same length of time, during which time sales 
generate royalties, rather than works produced earlier in life to be in 
copyright for longer.

The other change I'd like to see to copyright laws is that they lapse if 
supplies of the work cease because it has gone out of print: ie they 
exist to protect sales, and if there are no sales, there is no copyright 
to protect and generate royalties from those sales. That is very 
different from "moral right to be identified as author" which should 
last forever. It would end the "dog-in-a-manger" situation where a book 
goes out of print and the copyright holder does not want to make any 
more copies, but no-one else is allowed to make copies of it to satisfy 
any demand, even if those copies generate royalties to the copyright holder.

At least Crown Copyright on OS maps only lasts 50 years so National 
Library of Scotland can publish and maps from 1976 or earlier, which is 
virtually "yesterday" to my brain ;-)

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#70674 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2026-10-01 14:35 +0000
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119m24d.14r4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
In reply to#70659
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 01/10/2026 02:36, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> > On 2026/9/30 14:58:33, John Williamson wrote:
> >> The official reason is to provide an income for any surviving family
> >> members.
> >>
> > But surely they've benefited from the earlier works already, and/or
> > could benefit from the later ones; I agree with NY, it seems illogical
> > to go from the death rather than the creation.
>
> Precisely. You'd think that the fairest approach would be for every work 
> to be in copyright for the same length of time, during which time sales 
> generate royalties, rather than works produced earlier in life to be in 
> copyright for longer.

  A lot of problems/confusion are/is caused by the misnomer 'copyright'.
It's *not* just about (not) making copies. That's why most countries -
and I believe the Bern Convention documents - use the term 'author's
rights'.

  It's not just about royalties, and sometimes/often - see my earlier
example of our author's rights to our posts, not about royalties at all.

  It's not about what 'you' (any 'you') - i.e. a (potential) user of
a work - think is fair, but what are the rights and wishes of the
*author*.

> The other change I'd like to see to copyright laws is that they lapse if 
> supplies of the work cease because it has gone out of print: ie they 
> exist to protect sales, and if there are no sales, there is no copyright 
> to protect and generate royalties from those sales. That is very 
> different from "moral right to be identified as author" which should 
> last forever. It would end the "dog-in-a-manger" situation where a book 
> goes out of print and the copyright holder does not want to make any 
> more copies, but no-one else is allowed to make copies of it to satisfy 
> any demand, even if those copies generate royalties to the copyright holder.

  See above. You may *want* to have a copy, but if the author or hir
heirs does/do not want to provide more copies, then tough: Hir/their
rights, your wish.

> At least Crown Copyright on OS maps only lasts 50 years so National 
> Library of Scotland can publish and maps from 1976 or earlier, which is 
> virtually "yesterday" to my brain ;-)

  This is probably a different situation because there probably is not a
single 'author' and the author's rights probably lie with an
organization, instead of with a person.

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#70677 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromNY <me@privacy.net>
Date2026-10-01 16:14 +0100
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119ltcp$19tm8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#70674
On 01/10/2026 15:35, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>    It's not about what 'you' (any 'you') - i.e. a (potential) user of
> a work - think is fair, but what are the rights and wishes of the
> *author*.
I see copyright as an exchange: the author publishes the work - 
irrevocably so it can never be "unpublished" in the future - and in 
exchange for that, they receive a period of royalties from any sales of 
the work. But as soon as it goes out of print, all bets are off - unless 
or until they print new copies. In other words, it is "sales protection".

That's how I think "copyright" *should* work. I realise that it doesn't 
work like that.

Separately they gain the perpetual moral right to be identified as the 
author of the work, such that they (or their descendents) can sue anyone 
for plagiarising their work and passing it off as their own. And that 
doesn't stop when copyright runs out.

Which brings us back to Tom Lehrer:

Plagiarise.
Let no-one else's work evade you eyes.

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#70679 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromFrank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
Date2026-10-01 17:35 +0000
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<119mcha.6qo.1@tardis2.eternal.september.org>
In reply to#70677
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 01/10/2026 15:35, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >    It's not about what 'you' (any 'you') - i.e. a (potential) user of
> > a work - think is fair, but what are the rights and wishes of the
> > *author*.
>
> I see copyright as an exchange: the author publishes the work - 
> irrevocably so it can never be "unpublished" in the future - and in 
> exchange for that, they receive a period of royalties from any sales of 
> the work. But as soon as it goes out of print, all bets are off - unless 
> or until they print new copies. In other words, it is "sales protection".
>
> That's how I think "copyright" *should* work. I realise that it doesn't 
> work like that.

  What do you mean by "all bets are off"? (When it goes out of print) It
becomes free-to-copy? Other?

  Also consider the eBook situation: That never "goes out of print", but
it can equally become unavaible for purchase/download.

  And what about music? If it's 'author' stops performing, does the
music become free-to-copy/use?

> Separately they gain the perpetual moral right to be identified as the 
> author of the work, such that they (or their descendents) can sue anyone 
> for plagiarising their work and passing it off as their own. And that 
> doesn't stop when copyright runs out.

  Agreed.

[...]

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#70680 — Re: OT - Lehrer

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-10-01 17:53 +0000
SubjectRe: OT - Lehrer
Message-ID<b6xvS.18$V6F6.5@fx06.iad>
In reply to#70677
On 2026-10-01, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> On 01/10/2026 15:35, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>>    It's not about what 'you' (any 'you') - i.e. a (potential) user of
>> a work - think is fair, but what are the rights and wishes of the
>> *author*.
>
> I see copyright as an exchange: the author publishes the work - 
> irrevocably so it can never be "unpublished" in the future - and in 
> exchange for that, they receive a period of royalties from any sales of 
> the work. But as soon as it goes out of print, all bets are off - unless 
> or until they print new copies. In other words, it is "sales protection".
>
> That's how I think "copyright" *should* work. I realise that it doesn't 
> work like that.
>
> Separately they gain the perpetual moral right to be identified as the 
> author of the work, such that they (or their descendents) can sue anyone 
> for plagiarising their work and passing it off as their own. And that 
> doesn't stop when copyright runs out.
>
> Which brings us back to Tom Lehrer:
>
> Plagiarise.
> Let no-one else's work evade you eyes.

Oh, come on, let's have the whole thing:

    Plagiarize!
    Let no one else's work evade your eyes.
    Remember why the good Lord made your eyes
    So don't shade your eyes
    But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize
    (But remember to always call it please "research")

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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