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Groups > uk.tech.broadcast > #57155 > unrolled thread
| Started by | MB <MB@nospam.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-04-25 08:58 +0100 |
| Last post | 2021-04-28 02:50 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 82 — 20 participants |
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Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-25 08:58 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 09:28 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-25 10:11 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Jim S <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2021-04-25 10:25 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 10:47 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-25 11:04 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-25 12:13 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 12:27 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 12:33 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 09:11 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-26 09:19 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 07:55 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-26 17:11 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2021-04-26 16:47 +0000
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 10:45 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2021-04-26 18:20 +0000
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 11:44 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 16:02 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 16:49 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 18:39 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 09:15 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 12:26 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:20 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:37 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Laurence Taylor <laurence@nospam.plus.com> - 2021-04-28 21:40 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-28 22:01 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2021-04-29 09:19 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> - 2021-04-28 02:29 +0000
OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 16:14 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:42 -0700
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 17:42 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:07 -0700
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 18:37 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2021-04-29 09:06 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:45 -0600
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 17:50 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:57 -0600
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 18:10 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2021-04-29 09:31 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2021-04-28 20:06 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 20:24 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2021-04-29 10:29 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2021-04-29 10:35 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2021-04-29 11:05 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-29 15:58 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2021-04-29 19:04 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style Robin <rbw@outlook.com> - 2021-04-29 11:01 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> - 2021-04-26 23:29 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 16:01 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> - 2021-04-26 23:28 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 16:57 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 18:56 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 09:32 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 10:59 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 10:26 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 12:28 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:23 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:50 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:51 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:15 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 11:48 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:58 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-26 20:00 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 12:25 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 16:26 -0500
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> - 2021-04-27 05:07 +0000
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 21:19 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 15:54 -0500
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 22:58 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 17:55 -0500
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-25 09:47 -0500
Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header (was: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 18:27 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header (was: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-27 10:45 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-27 14:05 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-27 20:10 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-27 15:05 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-27 21:20 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-27 17:39 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-28 06:58 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-28 01:59 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-27 22:03 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> - 2021-04-28 02:50 +0000
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| From | Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-28 11:48 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <s6c78i$um9$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> |
| In reply to | #57270 |
On 4/28/21 11:15 AM, Ken Blake wrote: > That's my last post on this subject. Feel free to believe whatever you > want. We may not see directly eye to eye. But I do think it was a good and polite conversation. So I'll consider that a win for Usenet. :-) Have a good day. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
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| From | Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-28 10:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ietm1aFqpknU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57273 |
On 4/28/2021 10:48 AM, Grant Taylor wrote: > On 4/28/21 11:15 AM, Ken Blake wrote: >> That's my last post on this subject. Feel free to believe whatever you >> want. > > We may not see directly eye to eye. But I do think it was a good and > polite conversation. So I'll consider that a win for Usenet. :-) > > Have a good day. You too. -- Ken
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-26 20:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ieoguaFqptgU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57191 |
Ken Blake wrote: > Brian Gaff wrote: > >> Yeah, that is why I top post! > > Whether you top post, bottom post, or intersperse post is entirely up to > you, but as far as I'm concerned, top-posters are a nuisance, and > quickly get killfiled here. You have read the reason for Brian's top-posting in his .sig? He gets some latitude in the uk. groups for that reason ...
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| From | Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-26 12:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ieoidqFr6enU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57198 |
On 4/26/2021 12:00 PM, Andy Burns wrote: > Ken Blake wrote: > >> Brian Gaff wrote: >> >>> Yeah, that is why I top post! >> >> Whether you top post, bottom post, or intersperse post is entirely up to >> you, but as far as I'm concerned, top-posters are a nuisance, and >> quickly get killfiled here. > > You have read the reason for Brian's top-posting in his .sig? He gets > some latitude in the uk. groups for that reason ... The sig that says "Note this Signature is meaningless.!"? And the sig that violates the Usenet convention of a four-line maximum? Moreover, I never read any of the details of a signature. The only thing I'm interested in there is the name of the poster. Given that his signature is meaningless, I doubt whether he's really blind. But if he is, OK, I'll make allowances for him. -- Ken
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-26 16:26 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <19dxlxrh43pim.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57199 |
Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote: > The sig that says "Note this Signature is meaningless.!"? And the sig > that violates the Usenet convention of a four-line maximum? > > Moreover, I never read any of the details of a signature. The only thing > I'm interested in there is the name of the poster. > > Given that his signature is meaningless, I doubt whether he's really > blind. But if he is, OK, I'll make allowances for him. My NNTP client is configured to hide the sigblock. It contains fluff and is usually off-topic to the discussion. I had to use the raw source view to see he put the quoted content in the wrong place. In Brian's post: - He positioned the quoted content AFTER the sigdash line. Quoted content is *NOT* part of a signature! - Whatever posting style you choose (top or bottom), the quoted content should match. Else, you have no valid argument for choosing one over the other, and are a lazy slob creating a jumbled mess for others to waste time to decipher. Argue all you want about top- versus bottom- posting, but to actually have an argument for a style choice then also apply it the quoted content! - Because of his mispositioning of quoted content to place after the sigdash line, and even just for his own fluff content in the signature, and as you mention, he far exceeds the 4-line max netiquette for signatures. He royally screwed up his sig. Might be due to him using Outlook Express which mispositions the sigdash line -- and why many OE users started using the OE-QuoteFix extension to OE. Despite all the arguments over which style to use, the basic flaw in the top-posting argument is to equate e-mail to Usenet. Nope, those are NOT the same communications venue. Just because I can bounce a croquet ball off a windshield doesn't make it equate to how you play croquet. Just because you use a combination client that does both e-mail and newsgroups does NOT mean the same netiquette applies in different venues. Back in Windows XP SP-2, there was a registry hack for where to start a reply and where to position the sigblock. Since Microsoft dropped OE, they didn't bother moving those into the GUI config options visible from within OE. Since most users never bother to read the update descriptions, OE users rarely know about the registry edits. The registry hacks were mentioned in Microsoft's KB 886340 article, but Microsoft has since deleted their WinXP help or KB pages. Alas, my old notes pointed to the KB article which Microsoft deleted. Also, an updated version of OE was needed to recognize the new settings in the registry. A problem with OE's registry hacks is they apply to both e-mail and newsgroup messages. Microsoft wasn't smart enough to provide separate application of the registry edits to allow one set to affect e-mails and a different set of edits to affect newsgroups. If you change the registry entries for best newsgroup style, you screw up what most recipients expect in e-mails. Combination comm clients are often NOT best of breed, and OE is an example of poor in breed.
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| From | Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-27 05:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <s68661$17p4$1@neodome.net> |
| In reply to | #57191 |
Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> writes: > Moreover your top top-posting puts your signature after your reply so > everything you had quoted gets deleted in my reply. Since the user you replying to is blind it's probably easier for him to top-post. However, editor of a newsreader or mailreader should put signature under all the quoted text regardless if user top-posts or not. Not sure why the quote would be below his sig unless he copied and pasted it there manually. Or, perhaps, he typed in his signature manually while composing the reply?
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| From | Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-26 21:19 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <2n7e8g94fnode1r1jtsi1cjggf62muj38l@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #57185 |
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 09:11:21 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >Yeah, that is why I top post! > > Incidentally can the hot keys used by Tbird be changed so the old muscle >memory of Microsoft mail and news clients can continue to be used when this >old outlook express cannot work any more? > Brian -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... briang1@blueyonder.co.uk Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! Brian, which do you prefer follow-up replies to your posts to be: top or bottom posted? You seem to have a talking sofa. How is "this Signature is meaningless"? -- Dave W
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-26 15:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <17umgr3oxqs5h$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57185 |
"Brian Gaff (Sofa)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > Yeah, that is why I top post! Do you also edit the quoted content in your replies so it matches your choice of posting style? That is, before you submit, do you convert all the quoted content to also be in top-post style? Else, you're creating a jumbled mess. There are lots of arguments of whether to use top- versus bottom-posting. Rather than get into all that again, just be polite. If you bottom-post, all the quoted content should also appear in bottom- post order. If you top-post, all the quoted content should also appear in top-post order. Else, you are a lazy slob making a mess for other readers to decipher. So, what's your excuse for moving the quoted content in your relies to AFTER the sigdash line hence making the quoted content part of your signature, not part of the message body? Quoted content does NOT go into the sigblock!
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| From | Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-26 22:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <s67d2f$410$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #57202 |
On 26/04/2021 21:54, VanguardLH wrote: > "Brian Gaff (Sofa)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: > >> Yeah, that is why I top post! > > Do you also edit the quoted content in your replies so it matches your > choice of posting style? That is, before you submit, do you convert all > the quoted content to also be in top-post style? Else, you're creating > a jumbled mess. > To be honest, if I were a blind user you would see a scrambled mess, I'm sure. In my book, criticising Brian for the way his posts are laid out is way out of order. I'm just glad that Brian is able to post, no matter how it looks. -- Chris
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-26 17:55 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <2wo2nicncsjv.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57205 |
Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> wrote: > To be honest, if I were a blind user you would see a scrambled mess, > I'm sure. In my book, criticising Brian for the way his posts are > laid out is way out of order. I'm just glad that Brian is able to > post, no matter how it looks. The culprit appears to be his choice of newsreader, Outlook Express, which is a poor NNTP client. However, if blind then how would he configure OE-QuoteFix, or the config of OE (how did he get the accounts added?), or the registry edits introduced since WinXP SP-2 to fix where OE places the sigblock and reply content? Even if blind, he needs something to hear his replies as well as the articles he reads. If his "reader" lets him hear his composition, he'd realize his quoted content was in the wrong place. His choice of 5 lines in his sigblock has nothing to do with him being blind. Those lines were his choice. Quoted content in the wrong position (after the sigdash) is due to his choice of newsreader. Being blind means he still needs some means to hear what he is composing. Posters should always review before submit whether blind or not. From his post, it appears he is already contemplating on moving away from OE, but only if it stops working. Well, OE never did work well for newsgroups. I remember when the flood of OE users showed in Usenet. What a bane since.
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-25 09:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <wilad5engzsb$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57155 |
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote: > Can someone remind me how you stop Thunderbird displaying quote text > when reading post? > > I know I used to be able to toggle it off or back on but searched the > help files and can't find it. Use an extension; e.g., "Quote Colors (Tb 68, 78, 91)" which, according to feedback by its author to a review, added collapsible quoting (no, I've never used it, just found it in a search). https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35929 Opened 21 years ago. Last updated 10 years ago. Neither has the enhancement been implemented nor has Mozilla closed this ticket (as Won'tFix).
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-26 18:27 -0500 |
| Subject | Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header (was: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) |
| Message-ID | <yypfanednbw.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57155 |
NOTE: alt.comp.software.thunderbird was added to my Newsgroups header in
my reply to account for it missing in MB's Newsgroups header for his
cross-post.
From MB's headers in his opening post:
> Newsgroups: uk.tech.broadcast
^--- alt.comp.software.thunderbird
is missing (where I saw his post)
I read MB's article in the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup, yet
I just noticed MB's Newsgroups header only has the uk.tech.broadcast
newsgroup. I highly doubt Eternal-September, his Usenet provider, or my
Usenet provider, individual.net, have linked uk.tech.broadcast to
alt.comp.software.thunderbird for automatic cross-posting. If he
cross-posted then both newsgroups should be listed in his Newsgroups
header.
Without cross-posting, how did MB's post to uk.tech.broadcast also get
to the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup? Has he hacked his NNTP
client to lie in his Newsgroups header, like to hide his cross-posting?
The client composes the Newsgroups header. Did MB somehow get his
client to not list all newsgroups he specified for cross-posting?
This is not a defect in my NNTP client (Dialog). The Howard Knight
archived copy of his post also shows only one newsgroup in his
Newsgroups header.
http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cs637el%24qq2%242%40dont-email.me%3E
I searched bugzilla.mozilla.org, but no tickets on Thunderbird listed
not all cross-posted newsgroups showing in the Newsgroups header. Could
it be a new bug in TB 78? That was released back on July 17, 2020, so I
figured someone would've noticed and reported the bug by now.
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-27 10:45 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header (was: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) |
| Message-ID | <ieq4q7F5nqoU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57211 |
VanguardLH wrote: > I read MB's article in the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup, yet > I just noticed MB's Newsgroups header only has the uk.tech.broadcast > newsgroup. I highly doubt Eternal-September, his Usenet provider, or my > Usenet provider, individual.net, have linked uk.tech.broadcast to > alt.comp.software.thunderbird for automatic cross-posting. If he > cross-posted then both newsgroups should be listed in his Newsgroups > header. MB started the thread in u.t.broadcast, I added the x-post to a.c.s.thunderbird, but didn't set any followup
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-27 14:05 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header |
| Message-ID | <rpcrwlxdlnvn$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57218 |
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote: > VanguardLH wrote: > >> I read MB's article in the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup, yet >> I just noticed MB's Newsgroups header only has the uk.tech.broadcast >> newsgroup. I highly doubt Eternal-September, his Usenet provider, or my >> Usenet provider, individual.net, have linked uk.tech.broadcast to >> alt.comp.software.thunderbird for automatic cross-posting. If he >> cross-posted then both newsgroups should be listed in his Newsgroups >> header. > > MB started the thread in u.t.broadcast, I added the x-post to > a.c.s.thunderbird, but didn't set any followup Yes, I saw you added the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup when you replied, but *MB's post* does not specify that newsgroup. He only specified the uk.tech.broadcast newsgroup, yet I read his post in the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup that MB did *not* specify in his Newsgroups header. Something strange going on when the Newsgroups header does not match to which newsgroup an article shows up. I don't visit the uk.tech.broadcast newsgroup, so I would never see his post over there. I was visiting the alt.comp.software.thunderbird newsgroup, and that is where I saw his article. MB's headers in his starter post (not for your reply to MB) shows: Newsgroups: uk.tech.broadcast How did his post (not yours) show up in a newsgroup that is not listed (alt.comp.software.thunderbird) in the Newsgroups header? So far, and because the client adds the Newsgroups header which is separate from the GROUP and POST commands the client sends, the only way I see MB's post could appear in newsgroups /other/ than those listed in his Newsgroups header is that MB is using a hacked or trolling client that lies in its Newsgroups header (and possibly other headers) to where the client actually submitted the article. Look at MB's article, not yours. Only look at MB's starter/opening post. To where does *his* Newsgroups header say he submitted? It doesn't show alt.comp.software.thunderbird. Supposedly the newgroup - the ONLY newsgroup - to where MB submitted: uk.tech.broadcast Where his article showed up: uk.tech.broadcast alt.comp.software.thunderbird If MB submitted only to the uk.tech.broadcast as his Newsgroups header specifies, why did his post show up in alt.comp.software.thunderbird? Something looks fishy.
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-27 20:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header |
| Message-ID | <ier5t3Fbtj7U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57237 |
VanguardLH wrote: > How did his post (not yours) show up in a newsgroup that is not listed > (alt.comp.software.thunderbird) in the Newsgroups header? MB's original does not exist in a.c.s.thundrbird on NIN
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-27 15:05 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header |
| Message-ID | <1v562qjtqsjos.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57238 |
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote: > Path: uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail > From: Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> > Newsgroups: uk.tech.broadcast,alt.comp.software.thunderbird > Subject: Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header > Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 20:10:26 +0100 > Lines: 6 > Message-ID: <ier5t3Fbtj7U2@mid.individual.net> > References: <s637el$qq2$2@dont-email.me> <yypfanednbw.dlg@v.nguard.lh> > <ieq4q7F5nqoU1@mid.individual.net> <rpcrwlxdlnvn$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Trace: individual.net qcxnJkZLHRM3X98sVRQRAwvW7I11/3NUH5h5UaBNqXbgogV6kF > Cancel-Lock: sha1:U5VJo2AoYNCcReeNiCK0IWXTk4Y= > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 > Thunderbird/78.10.0 > In-Reply-To: <rpcrwlxdlnvn$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> > Content-Language: en-GB > Xref: uni-berlin.de uk.tech.broadcast:160814 alt.comp.software.thunderbird:319 > > VanguardLH wrote: > >> How did his post (not yours) show up in a newsgroup that is not listed >> (alt.comp.software.thunderbird) in the Newsgroups header? > > MB's original does not exist in a.c.s.thundrbird on NIN The NNTP server at which I subscribe to alt.comp.software.thunderbird is NIN (news.individual.net). While I also have accounts defined in my client to Eternal-September (and recently to Mozilla), *all* newsgroups to which I subscribe are hosted at NIN. When I saw MB's article in alt.comp.software.thunbderbird, that newsgroup was polled from NIN's server. According to MB's Path header, he posted at Eternal-September which peered to erje.net and that peered to NIN where I saw MB's post. Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Domain registration for erje.net is worthless (completely redacted) probably using GDPR as an excuse. Don't know who is erje.net. nslookup on erje.net returns 83.162.211.106 IPv4 (and an IPv6 address, too). That IP address is in the IP pool for XS4ALL who I have heard of. XS4All merged into their parent company, KPN (who bought XS4ALL back in 1998). I don't recall Eternal-September or Individual.net ever linking newsgroups together to make articles in one appear in the other. I don't know what is going on at KPN/XS4ALL/erje.net. However, I doubt the problem is linking together of multiple newsgroups. Seems more likely MB somehow got Thunderbird (or whatever client he is really using) to lie for where he actually submitted his article. You: MB's original does not exist in a.c.s.thundrbird on NIN. Me: NIN is where I saw MB's post in a.c.s.thunderbird. NIN is the only NNTP server I've used for 3+ years since deciding to pay 10 euro per year to get a reliable Usenet provider. ES kept going down too often. Albansani died. Now Mozilla died, too. NIN is the only one I've used for years (and Mozilla until they left). See the screenshot of my client at: https://imgur.com/a/oWaefHF where it shows: - In alt.comp.software.thunderbird - On Individual's NNTP server - MB's article appears - but MB's Newsgroup header doesn't show alt.comp.software.thunderbird
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-27 21:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header |
| Message-ID | <iera1aFcqc8U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57239 |
VanguardLH wrote: > You: MB's original does not exist in a.c.s.thundrbird on NIN. > Me: NIN is where I saw MB's post in a.c.s.thunderbird. I guess we're both sticking with what we saw and reported, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-27 17:39 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header |
| Message-ID | <2p0qjfo580cy.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57240 |
Okay, I spent some time figuring out how to use telnet to login into my NIN account to check if MB's post is in the a.c.s.thunderbird newsgroup. All these telnetted NNTP commands are something I just read about and not from expertise from coding an NNTP client. After using authinfo to send my username and password to NIN's server, I issued: newnews alt.comp.software.thunderbird 20210425 000000 That lists the message IDs for all articles in that newsgroup since the start of the day that MB posted. I copied the list into Notepad so I could search on <s637el$qq2$2@dont-email.me> which is the Message-ID for MB's article. Not found. If I did this correctly, the newnews command is not listing MB's article as being in the a.c.s.thunderbird newsgroup. Argh! Guess there's a bug in 40tude Dialog. Dialog seems to be presenting MB's article in the a.c.s.thunderbird newsgroup despite his Newsgroups header doesn't list that newsgroup, and NIN's server doesn't show MB's Message-ID in the newnews command. Your reply-started thread has "References: <s637el$qq2$2@dont-email.me>" to point to MB's parent article, but he posted to the uk.tech.broadcast newsgroup to which I don't subscribe. It's almost like Dialog yanked the parent article from another newsgroup to show a complete tree for the thread. Too bad BernD doesn't visit this newsgroup as he's the sole remaining expert on how Dialog works. Hmm, guess I'll have to attribute the fuckup to Dialog. Sucks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRO382FwkXI Guess that's me struggling with the discrepancy. Thought I had something there. Now it looks like Dialog fucked up. Maybe it's a "feature" that I had not run into before: a new thread starts with an article but which has a References header pointing to a parent article in a different newsgroup, so bring that parent article into the thread although into the wrong newsgroup.
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-28 06:58 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header |
| Message-ID | <iesbsvFip4oU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #57242 |
VanguardLH wrote: > Guess there's a bug in 40tude Dialog. I don't know whether 40tude attempts xpost handling, I use thunderbird and know it does nothing, I also remember the "fun" Agent/FreeAgent used to have with xposts back in the day.
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| From | VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-04-28 01:59 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header |
| Message-ID | <2c0sha5gtq25$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> |
| In reply to | #57245 |
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote: > VanguardLH wrote: > >> Guess there's a bug in 40tude Dialog. > > I don't know whether 40tude attempts xpost handling, I use thunderbird > and know it does nothing, I also remember the "fun" Agent/FreeAgent used > to have with xposts back in the day. I pinged Bernd in the news.software.readers newsgroup about the perplexing behavior in Dialog. His response makes sense on how to reconstruct a thread: the MID is used from the References header to use in issuing an "article <MID>" command to the NNTP server, and the server returns the article regardless of which newsgroup is was under. The following is the discussion I had with Bernd in the other newsgroup about Dialog. After I saw how the 'article' command works, I can see why Dialog behaves the way it does. It can't do much more than what 'article' does when reconstructing a thread. I probably did do a reconstruct when I saw your reply post starting with "Re:" but didn't see the parent article(s). BernD trimmed the quoted content to just the last paragraph on my inquiry, but his explanation makes sense. ---- Discussion with Bernd --- newsgroup: news.software.readers subject: "Ping: BernD - Dialog shows post from wrong newsgroup" Bernd Rose <b.rose.tmpbox@arcor.de> wrote: > On Tue, 27th Apr 2021 19:11:17 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: > >> Does Dialog have a "feature" that it completes a thread tree back to its >> parent even when the article is in a different newsgroup when the parent >> is on the same NNTP server? > > If you tell Dialog to "Reconstruct thread" (Online menu), it does so > in the current Newsgroup for the currently selected message. Dialog > traverses the References header and places all referenced messages > into the current Newsgroup. This is a deliberately programmed feature, > not a bug. > > You can also retrieve messages in the "wrong" Newsgroup with Dialog by > retrieving a message by Messge-ID. > > Marcus thought both functions as useful and I wholeheartedly agree. > > HTH. > Bernd (not: BernD, btw.) I don't recall using Reconstruct Thread for that message, but I've used it often enough that it might've happened. Perhaps I saw the thread starting with "Re: <subject>" and wanted to see the parent article to show more of the past articles of the thread for whatever reason they weren't showing up in the newsgroup that I visited. I didn't realize Dialog would yank the article from a different newsgroup. I thought it just got old articles from the same newsgroup. When I was figuring the problem, I read up on the NNTP commands. One was the 'article' command which you gave a message-ID as its argument. You didn't need to use GROUP to select a newsgroup because the 'article <MID>' command got the article from wherever it is from the Articles database which also means the 'article' command doesn't show you in which newsgroup was the message. So, if Dialog is using the References header to find the parent articles, yeah, I can see it using 'article <MID>' to rebuild a thread with articles from all over. When I saw how the 'article <MID>' command works (to retrieve an article regardless of which newsgroup it was grouped), I can see Dialog using the same command to reconstruct a thread, and why it ends up with the same results as the 'article' command: articles from any newsgroup. I was baffled on how an article in a different newsgroup ended up showing in another newsgroup. Good thing I get my hair cut short to just have fuzz on my head; else, I'd have fistfuls of hair around my computer chair. Thanks for the information.
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