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iCloud Drive Muddle - help!

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  iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John Hill <yclept@outlook.com> - 2020-07-19 10:25 +0000
    Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-19 17:53 +0100
      Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John Hill <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> - 2020-07-19 18:14 +0000
    Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-19 20:44 +0000
      Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-20 02:18 +0100
        Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2020-07-20 08:19 +0100
        Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John Hill <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> - 2020-07-20 15:51 +0000
          Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-20 17:06 +0000
            Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John Hill <yclept@outlook.com> - 2020-07-22 08:58 +0000
            Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John Hill <yclept@outlook.com> - 2020-07-22 09:04 +0000
              Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> - 2020-07-22 11:17 +0000
                Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John Hill <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> - 2020-07-22 14:32 +0000
          Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-23 02:27 +0100
            Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John Hill <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> - 2020-07-23 16:12 +0000
              Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-24 04:23 +0100
                Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John Hill <yclept@outlook.com> - 2020-07-24 14:12 +0000
                  Re: iCloud Drive Muddle - help! John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2020-07-25 02:53 +0100

#145576 — iCloud Drive Muddle - help!

The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.

This is the current situation:
1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
in Settings.
3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
has the suffix "(local)".

We would like to get back to the traditional situation in which the real
Documents and Desktop folders are in Anne's User folder with their proper
icons and no suffix in their window titles. But I am wary of fiddling about
in case I cause irreparable damage. Suppose all her documents disappeared!
So I am seeking help on how to proceed.

In passing, I note that iCloud Help contains clear advice on how to put
these folders on to iCloud Drive, but *nothing* on how to get them back
into the User folder.

John.

-- 
Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday, and all is well.

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#145585

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 10:25:47 -0000 (UTC), John Hill
<yclept@outlook.com> wrote:

>The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
>muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
>2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.
>
>This is the current situation:
>1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
>Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
>bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
>2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
>in Settings.
>3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
>have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
>folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
>the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
>has the suffix "(local)".
>
>We would like to get back to the traditional situation in which the real
>Documents and Desktop folders are in Anne's User folder with their proper
>icons and no suffix in their window titles. But I am wary of fiddling about
>in case I cause irreparable damage. Suppose all her documents disappeared!
>So I am seeking help on how to proceed.

 First: BACKUP *EVRYTHING* TWICE. By "*EVRYTHING*", I do mean a
complete, full, not-incremental backup. Where you backup to isn't very
important but *that* you backup *is*. 

 Second: make sure the backup can restore. 

 Third: do a backup of *everything*. 

 Fourth: do stuff. Whether the stuff is recommended by the online
Apple Support pages, us here in Usenet, your pal Leroy who once saw an
iPad in a movie or the "Genius" in a PCWorld shop who has never even
*heard* of IOS, doesn't much matter because if you fuck up YOU HAVE A
BACKUP!

 Fifth: if stuff works: do *another* backup.

 Sixth: make sure this one, too, can be restored from and then do yet
another backup. 

 N.B. Do not trust iCloud with backups, even if you have oodles and
oodles of space available and a TransAtlantic cable line. Keep lots of
backups local and one off-site if you can, even if "off-site" is only
in Leroy's Mum's dead microwave. [Make *sure* it's a *dead* microwave.
Backups don't really like live ones.] 

>
>In passing, I note that iCloud Help contains clear advice on how to put
>these folders on to iCloud Drive, but *nothing* on how to get them back
>into the User folder.

 Do the reverse? 

 Click on the folders and "restore to local space"? 

 If you have loads of working backups, just fiddle about until it
works. She'll be impressed as Hell when it does. If it doesn't, well,
that's' why the backups have been done. 

 Oh, do a backup. 

 If using TimeMachine, do more than one. TM is good at keeping loads
of copies separated, journaled and happily stored away.   

 And it's very compatible with Apple kit. :)

                                                         J. 
                                                     (The Real One) 




Addendum: have I mentioned that you really should, before doing
anything else, do a couple of clean, full *BACKUPS*? 

>
>John.

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#145588

On 19 Jul 2020 at 17:53:59 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 10:25:47 -0000 (UTC), John Hill
> <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
>> The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
>> muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
>> 2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.
>> 
>> This is the current situation:
>> 1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
>> Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
>> bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
>> 2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
>> in Settings.
>> 3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
>> have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
>> folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
>> the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
>> has the suffix "(local)".
>> 
>> We would like to get back to the traditional situation in which the real
>> Documents and Desktop folders are in Anne's User folder with their proper
>> icons and no suffix in their window titles. But I am wary of fiddling about
>> in case I cause irreparable damage. Suppose all her documents disappeared!
>> So I am seeking help on how to proceed.
> 
> First: BACKUP *EVRYTHING* TWICE. By "*EVRYTHING*", I do mean a
> complete, full, not-incremental backup. Where you backup to isn't very
> important but *that* you backup *is*. 
> 
> Second: make sure the backup can restore. 
> 
> Third: do a backup of *everything*. 
> 
> Fourth: do stuff. Whether the stuff is recommended by the online
> Apple Support pages, us here in Usenet, your pal Leroy who once saw an
> iPad in a movie or the "Genius" in a PCWorld shop who has never even
> *heard* of IOS, doesn't much matter because if you fuck up YOU HAVE A
> BACKUP!
> 
> Fifth: if stuff works: do *another* backup.
> 
> Sixth: make sure this one, too, can be restored from and then do yet
> another backup. 
> 
> N.B. Do not trust iCloud with backups, even if you have oodles and
> oodles of space available and a TransAtlantic cable line. Keep lots of
> backups local and one off-site if you can, even if "off-site" is only
> in Leroy's Mum's dead microwave. [Make *sure* it's a *dead* microwave.
> Backups don't really like live ones.] 
> 
>> 
>> In passing, I note that iCloud Help contains clear advice on how to put
>> these folders on to iCloud Drive, but *nothing* on how to get them back
>> into the User folder.
> 
> Do the reverse? 
> 
> Click on the folders and "restore to local space"? 
> 
> If you have loads of working backups, just fiddle about until it
> works. She'll be impressed as Hell when it does. If it doesn't, well,
> that's' why the backups have been done. 
> 
> Oh, do a backup. 
> 
> If using TimeMachine, do more than one. TM is good at keeping loads
> of copies separated, journaled and happily stored away.   
> 
> And it's very compatible with Apple kit. :)
> 
> J. 
> (The Real One) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Addendum: have I mentioned that you really should, before doing
> anything else, do a couple of clean, full *BACKUPS*? 
> 
>> 
>> John.

Thank you, that is very helpful. I will follow your guidance and see how I
go.

I do realise the importance of backups, they have saved my bacon on more than
one occasion…

John.

-- 
Classic computing: Computers do what you tell them to do, not what you want
them to do.
Modern computing: Computers do what they want to do, no matter what you tell
them to do.

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#145593

On 19 Jul 2020 at 11:25:47 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:

> The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
> muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
> 2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.
> 
> This is the current situation:
> 1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
> Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
> bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
> 2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
> in Settings.

Ok. Probably at a major OS version update, eg Catalina, the "oh yes let's do
the default terrible action of using iCloud Documents" has been clicked
through, then unchecked again in settings later. Or it was checked in
Settings, and then unchecked. Anyway, hardly matters - just avoid doing it
again :)

As John says, make sure her backup is up to date first.

> 3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
> have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
> folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
> the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
> has the suffix "(local)".

Fortunately the fix is simply to (backup first and then) drag all the files
from the iCloud Drive Documents folder back to the local Documents folder. 

And the same for the iCloud Drive Desktop folder, copy back to the desktop.

Once all looks okay, and you've taken the next backup (big thumbs up for that
John!) then you can delete out the extraneous Desktop and Documents folders
and content in iCloud Drive.

	Cheers - Jaimie
-- 
Imagine there were no hypothetical situations.

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#145620

On 19 Jul 2020 20:44:06 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
<jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

>On 19 Jul 2020 at 11:25:47 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
>> muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
>> 2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.
>> 
>> This is the current situation:
>> 1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
>> Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
>> bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
>> 2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
>> in Settings.
>
>Ok. Probably at a major OS version update, eg Catalina, the "oh yes let's do
>the default terrible action of using iCloud Documents" has been clicked
>through, then unchecked again in settings later. Or it was checked in
>Settings, and then unchecked. Anyway, hardly matters - just avoid doing it
>again :)
>
>As John says, make sure her backup is up to date first.
>
>> 3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
>> have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
>> folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
>> the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
>> has the suffix "(local)".
>
>Fortunately the fix is simply to (backup first and then) drag all the files
>from the iCloud Drive Documents folder back to the local Documents folder. 

 Optimist. 

>
>And the same for the iCloud Drive Desktop folder, copy back to the desktop.
>
>Once all looks okay, and you've taken the next backup (big thumbs up for that
>John!) then you can delete out the extraneous Desktop and Documents folders
>and content in iCloud Drive.


 *W*A*I*T*!*!*!*!   .....  a word or two to the other John .....

 At some point in the "drag all files to the local folder from the
iCloud one" operation, the little demons in your system are going to
ask a very, very important question [or maybe they won't]:

 "A newer version of this file is already in the target folder, are
you sure you wish to replace it with the older one?"

 That is where you stop, think and probably don't. 

 The reason it only *may* ask the question is because the desktop
versions may be newer, older or identical, it all depends on which was
last touched. Or there may only be one copy. That would be nice. 

 Be careful. 

 Do a backup.

 Make a short written note of every step you are going to do before
you do it just so you know exactly how dumb you were when you did it
and sort of what you can do to fix it. 

 This has all the makings of a project to occupy yourself with until
the end of Winnie's Flu's Quarentine if it goes all soggy but if you
are careful, follow Jaimie's advice and do it slowly, it may go
beautifully. 

 I hope it's easy. 

 But I hoped Winnie's Flu would vanish in January. 

                                                        J.  




>
>	Cheers - Jaimie

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#145624

John wrote:

[snip]

> 
>   But I hoped Winnie's Flu would vanish in January.
> 


It's not going to vanish.

The goverment will have to do something sensible to get it to go away. 
If we don’t stop the spread of the disease we must either plan for an 
indefinite form of lockdown, or the elimination by early death of the 
susceptible members of the population: which means the elderly, those 
with pre-existing heath conditions such as asthma or COPD that 
predominantly affect breathing, and those who appear to have a genetic 
predisposition to be seriously affected.

It’s clear from the WHO and others that anybody who is infectious must 
be isolated.  The problem is that a good proportion of infectious people 
are either not very ill or show no symptoms whatever.  Further, those 
who do show symptoms were probably infectious for 5 to 15 days before 
their symptoms started and were therefore spreading the disease.  So the 
only way to identify who is infectious is to test, and to be effective 
the test results must be returned within hours so the infected 
individual can alter his/her behaviour.  More importantly, it is those 
who do not show symptoms who should be tested first.

If we could test the whole population once per week for four weeks and 
isolate everybody shown to be infected then that would eradicate the 
disease from the resident population.  Of course travellers arriving at 
airports and the like would have to be tested; but the facilities are 
substantially in place in the form of immigration control.  There would 
simply be a delay in arrivals lounges while passengers were tested and 
waited for their results.

Perhaps the financial argument is the only one which will convince the 
government.  The current estimate for the cost of furlough for about 7 
million people is about £14 billion per month. That equates to over £50 
per man, woman, and child in the UK per week!  This amount of money 
would surely fund testing!  The Mail Online suggests £1 per test would 
cover it, see:

<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8313447/Officials-Norwich-plan-test-140-000-residents-coronavirus-WEEK.html> 



-- 
Graham J

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#145647

On 20 Jul 2020 at 02:18:24 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> On 19 Jul 2020 20:44:06 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> 
>> On 19 Jul 2020 at 11:25:47 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
>>> muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
>>> 2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.
>>> 
>>> This is the current situation:
>>> 1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
>>> Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
>>> bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
>>> 2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
>>> in Settings.
>> 
>> Ok. Probably at a major OS version update, eg Catalina, the "oh yes let's do
>> the default terrible action of using iCloud Documents" has been clicked
>> through, then unchecked again in settings later. Or it was checked in
>> Settings, and then unchecked. Anyway, hardly matters - just avoid doing it
>> again :)
>> 
>> As John says, make sure her backup is up to date first.
>> 
>>> 3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
>>> have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
>>> folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
>>> the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
>>> has the suffix "(local)".
>> 
>> Fortunately the fix is simply to (backup first and then) drag all the files
>> from the iCloud Drive Documents folder back to the local Documents folder. 
> 
> Optimist. 
> 
>> 
>> And the same for the iCloud Drive Desktop folder, copy back to the desktop.
>> 
>> Once all looks okay, and you've taken the next backup (big thumbs up for that
>> John!) then you can delete out the extraneous Desktop and Documents folders
>> and content in iCloud Drive.
> 
> 
> *W*A*I*T*!*!*!*!   .....  a word or two to the other John .....
> 
> At some point in the "drag all files to the local folder from the
> iCloud one" operation, the little demons in your system are going to
> ask a very, very important question [or maybe they won't]:
> 
> "A newer version of this file is already in the target folder, are
> you sure you wish to replace it with the older one?"
> 
> That is where you stop, think and probably don't. 
> 
> The reason it only *may* ask the question is because the desktop
> versions may be newer, older or identical, it all depends on which was
> last touched. Or there may only be one copy. That would be nice. 
> 
> Be careful. 
> 
> Do a backup.
> 
> Make a short written note of every step you are going to do before
> you do it just so you know exactly how dumb you were when you did it
> and sort of what you can do to fix it. 
> 
> This has all the makings of a project to occupy yourself with until
> the end of Winnie's Flu's Quarentine if it goes all soggy but if you
> are careful, follow Jaimie's advice and do it slowly, it may go
> beautifully. 
> 
> I hope it's easy. 

Operation de-iCloud complete, and all seems well. No problems along the way.

The folders in Anne's User folder still have window titles Documents - Local
and Desktop - Local, but hey, we can live with that. Oh, and the Documents
icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
will go away in time.

Thank you all for your help. It was easy in the end, but as I said I'm wary of
messing with things I don't really understand.

John.

-- 
Frustra fit per plura, quod potest fieri per pauciora - William of Occam

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#145648

On 20 Jul 2020 at 16:51:10 BST, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 20 Jul 2020 at 02:18:24 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
> 
>> On 19 Jul 2020 20:44:06 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
>> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 19 Jul 2020 at 11:25:47 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
>>>> muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
>>>> 2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.
>>>> 
>>>> This is the current situation:
>>>> 1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
>>>> Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
>>>> bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
>>>> 2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
>>>> in Settings.
>>> 
>>> Ok. Probably at a major OS version update, eg Catalina, the "oh yes let's do
>>> the default terrible action of using iCloud Documents" has been clicked
>>> through, then unchecked again in settings later. Or it was checked in
>>> Settings, and then unchecked. Anyway, hardly matters - just avoid doing it
>>> again :)
>>> 
>>> As John says, make sure her backup is up to date first.
>>> 
>>>> 3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
>>>> have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
>>>> folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
>>>> the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
>>>> has the suffix "(local)".
>>> 
>>> Fortunately the fix is simply to (backup first and then) drag all the files
>>> from the iCloud Drive Documents folder back to the local Documents folder. 
>> 
>> Optimist. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> And the same for the iCloud Drive Desktop folder, copy back to the desktop.
>>> 
>>> Once all looks okay, and you've taken the next backup (big thumbs up for that
>>> John!) then you can delete out the extraneous Desktop and Documents folders
>>> and content in iCloud Drive.
>> 
>> 
>> *W*A*I*T*!*!*!*!   .....  a word or two to the other John .....
>> 
>> At some point in the "drag all files to the local folder from the
>> iCloud one" operation, the little demons in your system are going to
>> ask a very, very important question [or maybe they won't]:
>> 
>> "A newer version of this file is already in the target folder, are
>> you sure you wish to replace it with the older one?"
>> 
>> That is where you stop, think and probably don't. 
>> 
>> The reason it only *may* ask the question is because the desktop
>> versions may be newer, older or identical, it all depends on which was
>> last touched. Or there may only be one copy. That would be nice. 
>> 
>> Be careful. 
>> 
>> Do a backup.
>> 
>> Make a short written note of every step you are going to do before
>> you do it just so you know exactly how dumb you were when you did it
>> and sort of what you can do to fix it. 
>> 
>> This has all the makings of a project to occupy yourself with until
>> the end of Winnie's Flu's Quarentine if it goes all soggy but if you
>> are careful, follow Jaimie's advice and do it slowly, it may go
>> beautifully. 
>> 
>> I hope it's easy. 
> 
> Operation de-iCloud complete, and all seems well. No problems along the way.
> 
> The folders in Anne's User folder still have window titles Documents - Local
> and Desktop - Local, but hey, we can live with that. 

You can just rename them, they're not that special :)

> Oh, and the Documents
> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
> will go away in time.

That won't - it'll always lead to iCloud. Right click, Options, Remove and
then replace it with a drag of the correct home folder one.

> Thank you all for your help. It was easy in the end, but as I said I'm wary of
> messing with things I don't really understand.

It's a worry fixing things up after some automated system has "improved"
things...

	Cheers - Jaimie
-- 
Thank you for your input. Now, if you have something substantive to
bring to the discussion, kindly do. Otherwise, isn't there an
eternal flamefest that would peter out if you won't keep feeding it?
                                            -- Cosmin Corbea, r.a.b

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#145712

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> On 20 Jul 2020 at 16:51:10 BST, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On 20 Jul 2020 at 02:18:24 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 19 Jul 2020 20:44:06 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
>>> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 19 Jul 2020 at 11:25:47 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
>>>>> muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
>>>>> 2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is the current situation:
>>>>> 1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
>>>>> Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
>>>>> bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
>>>>> 2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
>>>>> in Settings.
>>>> 
>>>> Ok. Probably at a major OS version update, eg Catalina, the "oh yes let's do
>>>> the default terrible action of using iCloud Documents" has been clicked
>>>> through, then unchecked again in settings later. Or it was checked in
>>>> Settings, and then unchecked. Anyway, hardly matters - just avoid doing it
>>>> again :)
>>>> 
>>>> As John says, make sure her backup is up to date first.
>>>> 
>>>>> 3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
>>>>> have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
>>>>> folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
>>>>> the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
>>>>> has the suffix "(local)".
>>>> 
>>>> Fortunately the fix is simply to (backup first and then) drag all the files
>>>> from the iCloud Drive Documents folder back to the local Documents folder. 
>>> 
>>> Optimist. 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> And the same for the iCloud Drive Desktop folder, copy back to the desktop.
>>>> 
>>>> Once all looks okay, and you've taken the next backup (big thumbs up for that
>>>> John!) then you can delete out the extraneous Desktop and Documents folders
>>>> and content in iCloud Drive.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *W*A*I*T*!*!*!*!   .....  a word or two to the other John .....
>>> 
>>> At some point in the "drag all files to the local folder from the
>>> iCloud one" operation, the little demons in your system are going to
>>> ask a very, very important question [or maybe they won't]:
>>> 
>>> "A newer version of this file is already in the target folder, are
>>> you sure you wish to replace it with the older one?"
>>> 
>>> That is where you stop, think and probably don't. 
>>> 
>>> The reason it only *may* ask the question is because the desktop
>>> versions may be newer, older or identical, it all depends on which was
>>> last touched. Or there may only be one copy. That would be nice. 
>>> 
>>> Be careful. 
>>> 
>>> Do a backup.
>>> 
>>> Make a short written note of every step you are going to do before
>>> you do it just so you know exactly how dumb you were when you did it
>>> and sort of what you can do to fix it. 
>>> 
>>> This has all the makings of a project to occupy yourself with until
>>> the end of Winnie's Flu's Quarentine if it goes all soggy but if you
>>> are careful, follow Jaimie's advice and do it slowly, it may go
>>> beautifully. 
>>> 
>>> I hope it's easy. 
>> 
>> Operation de-iCloud complete, and all seems well. No problems along the way.
>> 
>> The folders in Anne's User folder still have window titles Documents - Local
>> and Desktop - Local, but hey, we can live with that. 
> 
> You can just rename them, they're not that special :)
> 

Well, not on our iMacs. The Apple proved folders  - Desktop, Documents,
Pictures etc. - can NOT be renamed (at least, not by my amateur efforts).
Folders I've created can, of course.

In any case, the name in the Finder is just Documents. It's the title of
the opened window that has the suffix.

>> Oh, and the Documents
>> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>> will go away in time.
> 
> That won't - it'll always lead to iCloud. Right click, Options, Remove and
> then replace it with a drag of the correct home folder one.
> 

It did lead to the right place, just its name was misleading. I'll try that
at a convenient time.

>> Thank you all for your help. It was easy in the end, but as I said I'm wary of
>> messing with things I don't really understand.
> 
> It's a worry fixing things up after some automated system has "improved"
> things...
> 

Yes, I do become irritated by Apple's attempts to get me to do things its
way rather than my way. Back in the Classic era we were given plenty of
scope to customise how we used the Mac; we could, for example, give sounds
of our choice to all sorts of actions. Mine used to say "My mind is going"
(HAL in 2001) when it was shut down.

I miss the Easter Eggs, too. I suppose it's the Corporate Mentality.

I expect that Windows is just the same; at least we can still put
applications anywhere we want, or just throw them in the bin.

John.

-- 
Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday, and all is well.

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#145713

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> On 20 Jul 2020 at 16:51:10 BST, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On 20 Jul 2020 at 02:18:24 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 19 Jul 2020 20:44:06 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
>>> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 19 Jul 2020 at 11:25:47 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>> 

Snip...

> 
>> Oh, and the Documents
>> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>> will go away in time.
> 
> That won't - it'll always lead to iCloud. Right click, Options, Remove and
> then replace it with a drag of the correct home folder one.
> 
That worked perfectly. Time to quit while I'm ahead.

>> Thank you all for your help. It was easy in the end, but as I said I'm wary of
>> messing with things I don't really understand.
> 
> It's a worry fixing things up after some automated system has "improved"
> things...
> 
> 	Cheers - Jaimie

John.

-- 
Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday, and all is well.

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#145719

On 22 Jul 2020 at 10:04:16 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:

> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>> On 20 Jul 2020 at 16:51:10 BST, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> Oh, and the Documents
>>> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>>> will go away in time.
>> 
>> That won't - it'll always lead to iCloud. Right click, Options, Remove and
>> then replace it with a drag of the correct home folder one.
>> 
> That worked perfectly. Time to quit while I'm ahead.

Weird mess it got into that led to the labelling lies. Glad you're sorted!
Probably simpler not to worry about the Documents and Desktop folder window
titles - they are technically correct.

	Cheers - Jaimie
-- 
I always wanted to be someone. I should have been more specific. 
                                                 -- Lily Tomlin

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#145722

On 22 Jul 2020 at 12:17:53 BST, "Jaimie Vandenbergh"
<jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

> On 22 Jul 2020 at 10:04:16 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>> On 20 Jul 2020 at 16:51:10 BST, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Oh, and the Documents
>>>> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>>>> will go away in time.
>>> 
>>> That won't - it'll always lead to iCloud. Right click, Options, Remove and
>>> then replace it with a drag of the correct home folder one.
>>> 
>> That worked perfectly. Time to quit while I'm ahead.
> 
> Weird mess it got into that led to the labelling lies. Glad you're sorted!
> Probably simpler not to worry about the Documents and Desktop folder window
> titles - they are technically correct.

Yes, they are not a problem. BTW, you are probably right about the initial
cause of the muddle. Click on the option to put Desktop and Documents folders
on iCloud Drive, and Bingo! there they are. Untick the option, and do they go
back? Evidently not :-(

Thank you (and the others who contributed) for your help.

John.
-- 
Frustra fit per plura, quod potest fieri per pauciora - William of Occam

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#145743

On Mon, 20 Jul 2020 15:51:10 -0000 (UTC), John Hill
<watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 20 Jul 2020 at 02:18:24 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>> On 19 Jul 2020 20:44:06 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh
>> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 19 Jul 2020 at 11:25:47 BST, "John Hill" <yclept@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The Documents and Desktop folders on Anne's iMac have got into an iCloud
>>>> muddle, and I would be grateful for advice on how to sort it out. She has a
>>>> 2017 iMac running Catalina, fully up to date.
>>>> 
>>>> This is the current situation:
>>>> 1. iCloud Drive holds a Documents folder, containing her documents and a
>>>> Desktop folder containing items that do appear on her desktop. Neither
>>>> bears the appropriate icon; they appear as standard folders.
>>>> 2. The option for iCloud to be the home for these folders is definitely OFF
>>>> in Settings.
>>> 
>>> Ok. Probably at a major OS version update, eg Catalina, the "oh yes let's do
>>> the default terrible action of using iCloud Documents" has been clicked
>>> through, then unchecked again in settings later. Or it was checked in
>>> Settings, and then unchecked. Anyway, hardly matters - just avoid doing it
>>> again :)
>>> 
>>> As John says, make sure her backup is up to date first.
>>> 
>>>> 3. Her User folder contains a Documents folder and a Desktop folder that do
>>>> have the appropriate icons. The Documents folder is empty, the Desktop
>>>> folder contains a folder of Relocated Items (there is an alias for this in
>>>> the iCloud Desktop folder). When either is opened, the title of the window
>>>> has the suffix "(local)".
>>> 
>>> Fortunately the fix is simply to (backup first and then) drag all the files
>>> from the iCloud Drive Documents folder back to the local Documents folder. 
>> 
>> Optimist. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> And the same for the iCloud Drive Desktop folder, copy back to the desktop.
>>> 
>>> Once all looks okay, and you've taken the next backup (big thumbs up for that
>>> John!) then you can delete out the extraneous Desktop and Documents folders
>>> and content in iCloud Drive.
>> 
>> 
>> *W*A*I*T*!*!*!*!   .....  a word or two to the other John .....
>> 
>> At some point in the "drag all files to the local folder from the
>> iCloud one" operation, the little demons in your system are going to
>> ask a very, very important question [or maybe they won't]:
>> 
>> "A newer version of this file is already in the target folder, are
>> you sure you wish to replace it with the older one?"
>> 
>> That is where you stop, think and probably don't. 
>> 
>> The reason it only *may* ask the question is because the desktop
>> versions may be newer, older or identical, it all depends on which was
>> last touched. Or there may only be one copy. That would be nice. 
>> 
>> Be careful. 
>> 
>> Do a backup.
>> 
>> Make a short written note of every step you are going to do before
>> you do it just so you know exactly how dumb you were when you did it
>> and sort of what you can do to fix it. 
>> 
>> This has all the makings of a project to occupy yourself with until
>> the end of Winnie's Flu's Quarentine if it goes all soggy but if you
>> are careful, follow Jaimie's advice and do it slowly, it may go
>> beautifully. 
>> 
>> I hope it's easy. 
>
>Operation de-iCloud complete, and all seems well. No problems along the way.

 Bloody good show!

 You did good, sir. 

>
>The folders in Anne's User folder still have window titles Documents - Local
>and Desktop - Local, but hey, we can live with that. 

 Or ........ you might change them to remove the "local"? 

 You know what to do *BEFORE* changing them? 

>Oh, and the Documents
>icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>will go away in time.

 You could rename that, too. 

 *AFTER* ....... 

>
>Thank you all for your help. It was easy in the end, but as I said I'm wary of
>messing with things I don't really understand.


 Not me. I made a career out of that. Earned good money, too. I even
sometimes did some good, helped a few folks and learned loads of stuff
I'll never use again. 

 It was mostly fun.

 I'm glad everything worked out for you. 

 'Bye.

                                                                  J. 
                                               (The Really Real One.) 

>
>John.

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#145771

On 23 Jul 2020 at 02:27:22 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

>> Operation de-iCloud complete, and all seems well. No problems along the way.
> 
> Bloody good show!
> 
> You did good, sir. 
> 
>> 
>> The folders in Anne's User folder still have window titles Documents - Local
>> and Desktop - Local, but hey, we can live with that. 
> 
> Or ........ you might change them to remove the "local"? 
> 
> You know what to do *BEFORE* changing them? 
> 
>> Oh, and the Documents
>> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>> will go away in time.
> 
> You could rename that, too.

So far as I can see, once you have selected Documents and Desktop to be held
on iCloud Drive, you are left with a situation in which
1. There are always a Documents and a Desktop folder on iCloud Drive.
2. There are always a Documents and a Desktop folder in the User folder.
3. None of these can be permanently deleted. If the empty ones are deleted,
the System regenerates them.
4. If you open any of these, the window title (but NOT the folder name in the
Finder) is suffixed by iCloud Drive or Local, as appropriate.
5. None of these folders can be renamed in the Finder.

This situation appears to be irreversible. It is probable that the intention
is that if you select the iCloud Drive option the contents of the folders are
transferred to the iCloud Drive folders; if you deselect it, they are
transferred to the User folders. However, the latter did not work (at least
when I tried it).

I currently have a situation that works for me, and I am not going to waste my
time and energy by investigating further. But I would be interested in the
findings of anyone more enthusiastic who chooses to do so, and in the
observations of anyone who has committed the error of selecting the iCloud
Drive option (especially if they did not intend to do so).

Anne and I have identical iMacs, both updated to the latest version of
Catalina. The iCloud Drive option has never been selected on mine, and I do
not have superfluous folders on iCloud Drive.

Strange are the ways of Apple.

John.

-- 
Classic computing: Computers do what you tell them to do, not what you want
them to do.
Modern computing: Computers do what they want to do, no matter what you tell
them to do.

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#145801

On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:12:15 -0000 (UTC), John Hill
<watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 23 Jul 2020 at 02:27:22 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>>> Operation de-iCloud complete, and all seems well. No problems along the way.
>> 
>> Bloody good show!
>> 
>> You did good, sir. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> The folders in Anne's User folder still have window titles Documents - Local
>>> and Desktop - Local, but hey, we can live with that. 
>> 
>> Or ........ you might change them to remove the "local"? 
>> 
>> You know what to do *BEFORE* changing them? 
>> 
>>> Oh, and the Documents
>>> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>>> will go away in time.
>> 
>> You could rename that, too.
>
>So far as I can see, once you have selected Documents and Desktop to be held
>on iCloud Drive, you are left with a situation in which
>1. There are always a Documents and a Desktop folder on iCloud Drive.

 Random thought, as I'm on a Windosed box, could you turn off iCloud?
I seem to remember turning it off on my MacBookPro. I'm not entirely
sure what that would do once you have used it for stuff as I probably
turned it off *before* I ever used it. 

>2. There are always a Documents and a Desktop folder in the User folder.

 Yeah, well, isn't that where you want them to be? Or am I now all
confused by this? 

>3. None of these can be permanently deleted. If the empty ones are deleted,
>the System regenerates them.

 That is so *cool*!

 Loads of OSes do stuff like that. The writers of the OSes think they
are being helpful. There are ways to "jump the code" but these can be
very dangerous. 

 Actually, *everything* can be "very dangerous" even raspberries. 

>4. If you open any of these, the window title (but NOT the folder name in the
>Finder) is suffixed by iCloud Drive or Local, as appropriate.

 You can turn off suffices in "File Info". They don't go away but they
don't get displayed.   

>5. None of these folders can be renamed in the Finder.

 Yeah, well, they are Special System Folders owned by the Special
Systems and Special Systems Rules apply. 

 It's a thing. I think we just need to live with it. 

>
>This situation appears to be irreversible. It is probable that the intention
>is that if you select the iCloud Drive option the contents of the folders are
>transferred to the iCloud Drive folders; if you deselect it, they are
>transferred to the User folders. However, the latter did not work (at least
>when I tried it).

 It's possible that you deselected when iCloud wasn't online, logged
into or feeling like being bothered so the signal telling it to
relinquish the files didn't get heard. 

 Or maybe it's a one-way thing under certain conditions [such as Io
being retrograde to Ganymede or something.] 

>
>I currently have a situation that works for me, and I am not going to waste my
>time and energy by investigating further. 

 Excellent plan! Some things, many things, we just live with as minor
irritants. Orange Plant-level-intellect Presidents, shops being
allowed to sell Marmite, Winters and others. 
 

>But I would be interested in the
>findings of anyone more enthusiastic who chooses to do so, and in the
>observations of anyone who has committed the error of selecting the iCloud
>Drive option (especially if they did not intend to do so).

 Yeah, well, as an intellectual exercise, so would I but I'm not
volunteering. Mt MBP does mostly what I want how I want within the
limits of the OS and softwares so I am reluctant to fuck it up by
fiddling too much. 

 I'm far too old for that faffingness. 

>
>Anne and I have identical iMacs, both updated to the latest version of
>Catalina. The iCloud Drive option has never been selected on mine, and I do
>not have superfluous folders on iCloud Drive.

 Is cool. Is sort of like my MBP. 

>
>Strange are the ways of Apple.

 Oh, yes. 

 But Unices and Windows are also weird. Other things, too. In fact,
it's all a rather weird cosmos with weird bits doing weird stuff
weirdly. 

 Which affords people like me opportunities to earn so it's not too
bad a design.

                                                            J. 

>
>John.

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#145824

John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:12:15 -0000 (UTC), John Hill
> <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On 23 Jul 2020 at 02:27:22 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>> 
>>>> Operation de-iCloud complete, and all seems well. No problems along the way.
>>> 
>>> Bloody good show!
>>> 
>>> You did good, sir. 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The folders in Anne's User folder still have window titles Documents - Local
>>>> and Desktop - Local, but hey, we can live with that. 
>>> 
>>> Or ........ you might change them to remove the "local"? 
>>> 
>>> You know what to do *BEFORE* changing them? 
>>> 
>>>> Oh, and the Documents
>>>> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>>>> will go away in time.
>>> 
>>> You could rename that, too.
>> 
>> So far as I can see, once you have selected Documents and Desktop to be held
>> on iCloud Drive, you are left with a situation in which
>> 1. There are always a Documents and a Desktop folder on iCloud Drive.
> 
>  Random thought, as I'm on a Windosed box, could you turn off iCloud?
> I seem to remember turning it off on my MacBookPro. I'm not entirely
> sure what that would do once you have used it for stuff as I probably
> turned it off *before* I ever used it. 

I'm not sure that you can turn iCloud off. iCloud perhaps but it is quite
useful.

> 
>> 2. There are always a Documents and a Desktop folder in the User folder.
> 
>  Yeah, well, isn't that where you want them to be? Or am I now all
> confused by this? 

Well yes, but my point is that they remain when the actual documents and
desktop items are located on iCloud Drive.

> 
>> 3. None of these can be permanently deleted. If the empty ones are deleted,
>> the System regenerates them.
> 
>  That is so *cool*!
> 
>  Loads of OSes do stuff like that. The writers of the OSes think they
> are being helpful. There are ways to "jump the code" but these can be
> very dangerous. 
> 
>  Actually, *everything* can be "very dangerous" even raspberries. 

Too true.

> 
>> 4. If you open any of these, the window title (but NOT the folder name in the
>> Finder) is suffixed by iCloud Drive or Local, as appropriate.
> 
> You can turn off suffixes in "File Info". They don't go away but they don't get displayed. 

You can turn off (I.e. hide) file extensions in Finder windows (I do not),
but these are added to the window's title.

> 
>> 5. None of these folders can be renamed in the Finder.
> 
>  Yeah, well, they are Special System Folders owned by the Special
> Systems and Special Systems Rules apply. 
> 
>  It's a thing. I think we just need to live with it. 
> 
>> 
>> This situation appears to be irreversible. It is probable that the intention
>> is that if you select the iCloud Drive option the contents of the folders are
>> transferred to the iCloud Drive folders; if you deselect it, they are
>> transferred to the User folders. However, the latter did not work (at least
>> when I tried it).
> 
>  It's possible that you deselected when iCloud wasn't online, logged
> into or feeling like being bothered so the signal telling it to
> relinquish the files didn't get heard. 
> 
>  Or maybe it's a one-way thing under certain conditions [such as Io
> being retrograde to Ganymede or something.] 

Perhaps I forgot to put out a saucer of milk for the Piskies…

> 
>> 
>> I currently have a situation that works for me, and I am not going to waste my
>> time and energy by investigating further. 
> 
>  Excellent plan! Some things, many things, we just live with as minor
> irritants. Orange Plant-level-intellect Presidents, shops being
> allowed to sell Marmite, Winters and others. 
>  
> 
>> But I would be interested in the
>> findings of anyone more enthusiastic who chooses to do so, and in the
>> observations of anyone who has committed the error of selecting the iCloud
>> Drive option (especially if they did not intend to do so).
> 
>  Yeah, well, as an intellectual exercise, so would I but I'm not
> volunteering. Mt MBP does mostly what I want how I want within the
> limits of the OS and softwares so I am reluctant to fuck it up by
> fiddling too much. 
> 
>  I'm far too old for that faffingness. 

Me too.

> 
>> 
>> Anne and I have identical iMacs, both updated to the latest version of
>> Catalina. The iCloud Drive option has never been selected on mine, and I do
>> not have superfluous folders on iCloud Drive.
> 
>  Is cool. Is sort of like my MBP. 
> 
>> 
>> Strange are the ways of Apple.
> 
>  Oh, yes. 
> 
>  But Unices and Windows are also weird. Other things, too. In fact,
> it's all a rather weird cosmos with weird bits doing weird stuff
> weirdly. 
> 
>  Which affords people like me opportunities to earn so it's not too
> bad a design.
> 
>                                                             J. 
> 
>> 
>> John.
> 

John.
-- 
Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday, and all is well.

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#145848

On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 14:12:30 -0000 (UTC), John Hill
<yclept@outlook.com> wrote:

>John <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 16:12:15 -0000 (UTC), John Hill
>> <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 23 Jul 2020 at 02:27:22 BST, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> Operation de-iCloud complete, and all seems well. No problems along the way.
>>>> 
>>>> Bloody good show!
>>>> 
>>>> You did good, sir. 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The folders in Anne's User folder still have window titles Documents - Local
>>>>> and Desktop - Local, but hey, we can live with that. 
>>>> 
>>>> Or ........ you might change them to remove the "local"? 
>>>> 
>>>> You know what to do *BEFORE* changing them? 
>>>> 
>>>>> Oh, and the Documents
>>>>> icon in the Dock is called iCloud Drive rather than Documents. Maybe these
>>>>> will go away in time.
>>>> 
>>>> You could rename that, too.
>>> 
>>> So far as I can see, once you have selected Documents and Desktop to be held
>>> on iCloud Drive, you are left with a situation in which
>>> 1. There are always a Documents and a Desktop folder on iCloud Drive.
>> 
>>  Random thought, as I'm on a Windosed box, could you turn off iCloud?
>> I seem to remember turning it off on my MacBookPro. I'm not entirely
>> sure what that would do once you have used it for stuff as I probably
>> turned it off *before* I ever used it. 
>
>I'm not sure that you can turn iCloud off. iCloud perhaps but it is quite
>useful.
>
>> 
>>> 2. There are always a Documents and a Desktop folder in the User folder.
>> 
>>  Yeah, well, isn't that where you want them to be? Or am I now all
>> confused by this? 
>
>Well yes, but my point is that they remain when the actual documents and
>desktop items are located on iCloud Drive.

 Ah, yes, I *was* confused. 

 Sorry. 

 Thanks for clearing it away. 

>
>> 
>>> 3. None of these can be permanently deleted. If the empty ones are deleted,
>>> the System regenerates them.
>> 
>>  That is so *cool*!
>> 
>>  Loads of OSes do stuff like that. The writers of the OSes think they
>> are being helpful. There are ways to "jump the code" but these can be
>> very dangerous. 
>> 
>>  Actually, *everything* can be "very dangerous" even raspberries. 
>
>Too true.
>
>> 
>>> 4. If you open any of these, the window title (but NOT the folder name in the
>>> Finder) is suffixed by iCloud Drive or Local, as appropriate.
>> 
>> You can turn off suffixes in "File Info". They don't go away but they don't get displayed. 
>
>You can turn off (I.e. hide) file extensions in Finder windows (I do not),
>but these are added to the window's title.

 Oh. 

 Right. 

 That must be in a "plist" file in the Library somewhere. Finder might
find it. 
 
 If you do find it, please refer to previous notes up-thread about
backups and how *everything* can be potentially dangerous. 

 ["plist" files? I'm on the Windosed box so I'm not certain if this is
what them things is.] 

>
>> 
>>> 5. None of these folders can be renamed in the Finder.
>> 
>>  Yeah, well, they are Special System Folders owned by the Special
>> Systems and Special Systems Rules apply. 
>> 
>>  It's a thing. I think we just need to live with it. 
>> 
>>> 
>>> This situation appears to be irreversible. It is probable that the intention
>>> is that if you select the iCloud Drive option the contents of the folders are
>>> transferred to the iCloud Drive folders; if you deselect it, they are
>>> transferred to the User folders. However, the latter did not work (at least
>>> when I tried it).
>> 
>>  It's possible that you deselected when iCloud wasn't online, logged
>> into or feeling like being bothered so the signal telling it to
>> relinquish the files didn't get heard. 
>> 
>>  Or maybe it's a one-way thing under certain conditions [such as Io
>> being retrograde to Ganymede or something.] 
>
>Perhaps I forgot to put out a saucer of milk for the Piskies…

 I *never* do this. I rarely have milk in-house and when I do it has a
purpose. Feeding random thaumaturgical beings is not it. Sod them;
there are millions of free bovines roaming around from whom they can
obtain free supplies, they don't need mine. 

 Beer, they can have. Bacon sarnies, too, should they ask politely. 

                                                                    J.

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