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Hardware RAID

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  Hardware RAID "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2026-08-02 11:38 +0000
    Re: Hardware RAID Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-02 13:35 +0100
      Re: Hardware RAID "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2026-08-02 13:57 +0000
        Re: Hardware RAID Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-02 15:37 +0100
          Re: Hardware RAID "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2026-08-02 16:49 +0000
            Re: Hardware RAID Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-03 12:27 +0100
          Re: Hardware RAID "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2026-08-03 17:52 +0000
            Re: Hardware RAID Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-03 23:00 +0100
              Re: Hardware RAID "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2026-08-04 07:07 +0000
                Re: Hardware RAID SH <i.love@spam.com> - 2026-08-04 08:31 +0100
                  Re: Hardware RAID "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2026-08-04 10:09 +0000
                    Re: Hardware RAID "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2026-08-04 11:38 +0000
    Re: Hardware RAID Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-08-02 13:45 +0100
      Re: Hardware RAID Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2026-08-02 14:46 +0100
        Re: Hardware RAID "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2026-08-02 14:03 +0000

#60710 — Hardware RAID

I have a QNAP TS451+ with 4 x 4 TB (spinning) drives in RAID 6 giving me 
about 7.5 TB usable and up to 2 disks failing (although I think it might 
depend on which 2).

It's slow to access over the network and snail's pace to administer vis a 
browser.

I wonder about a new build based either on a HP Microserver (either N54L 
or Gen 8) or an Asus Z170-P with hardware RAID.

I have no experience of H/W RAID and wonder if there is actually such a 
thing. I have an LSI card which runs slightly hotter than the Sun and 
seemed a bit intermittent in performance when used with individual drives.

Is there such a thing as a H/W RAID card? If so any suggestions please? It 
would need to be low profile for one of the HPs.

I also need a PSU if I go with the Asus board. I usually buy Seasonic 
modular but they are very funny about additional cables and referred me to 
a  company in Germany. Is there a reliable make that supplies additional 
cables itself?

Many thanks.

PS Could use the opportunity to run Linux, my main media server does and 
it is excellent.

-- 
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 3 types of people in this world. Those who can count, and those 
who can't.

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#60711

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a QNAP TS451+ with 4 x 4 TB (spinning) drives in RAID 6 giving me 
> about 7.5 TB usable and up to 2 disks failing (although I think it might 
> depend on which 2).
> 
> It's slow to access over the network and snail's pace to administer vis a 
> browser.
> 
> I wonder about a new build based either on a HP Microserver (either N54L 
> or Gen 8) or an Asus Z170-P with hardware RAID.

I'd go with the Z170, it will be much faster.  Also you can probably buy
better CPUs for cheap, and there are more RAM and PCIe slots.

> I have no experience of H/W RAID and wonder if there is actually such a 
> thing. I have an LSI card which runs slightly hotter than the Sun and 
> seemed a bit intermittent in performance when used with individual drives.

Don't use hardware RAID, it will just lock you in to that vendor's data
format.  Nowadays machines are much faster than discs so software RAID is
the same performance and the extra CPU load is minimal.

ZFS is a good way to do a NAS with software RAID.  Use TrueNAS or a similar
NAS distro and it's easy to set up.  Unraid is another way to do it - it's
not industrial grade like ZFS but is nicer if you want to add drives
piecemeal.

> Is there such a thing as a H/W RAID card? If so any suggestions please? It 
> would need to be low profile for one of the HPs.

If your mobo has enough SATA ports, just connect the HDD directly.

(the quality of mobo SATA ports is generally higher than SATA ports on addon
cards, unless you go to the proper power-hungry HBA cards.  ZFS RAID tends
to be a bit harder on SATA connections than a regular desktop OS would be
and shows up dodgy SATA controllers)

> I also need a PSU if I go with the Asus board. I usually buy Seasonic 
> modular but they are very funny about additional cables and referred me to 
> a  company in Germany. Is there a reliable make that supplies additional 
> cables itself?

Seasonic is a good brand.  Not sure why you'd need additional cables - they
typically come with the full set of cables in the box, just keep them in
case you need them later.

Probably the big 'gaming' brands are easier to get aftermarket cables for as
people like to colour-coordinate cables with their builds.  (But check model
numbers carefully, it's not unknown for models bought in from different ODMs
to have different pinouts at the power supply end)

Theo

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#60714

On 02/08/2026 in message <O0x*K58MA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>>I also need a PSU if I go with the Asus board. I usually buy Seasonic
>>modular but they are very funny about additional cables and referred me to
>>a  company in Germany. Is there a reliable make that supplies additional
>>cables itself?
>
>Seasonic is a good brand.  Not sure why you'd need additional cables - they
>typically come with the full set of cables in the box, just keep them in
>case you need them later.

To follow up on that point the cables that came with the unit certainly 
got me running. However, my Corsair cases take 4 x HD stacked vertically 
and I wanted a PSU to 4 x SATA power cable. I contacted Seasonic who said 
they don't supply cables and pointed me to somebody in Germany but they 
wanted me to give them a complete spec to make the cable.

I think the original logic was you shouldn't run 4 x HD of one cable but 
that was for spinners. I managed to find them on eBay in the end but the 
first set didn't fit the PSU :-(

-- 
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.

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#60716

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> To follow up on that point the cables that came with the unit certainly 
> got me running. However, my Corsair cases take 4 x HD stacked vertically 
> and I wanted a PSU to 4 x SATA power cable. I contacted Seasonic who said 
> they don't supply cables and pointed me to somebody in Germany but they 
> wanted me to give them a complete spec to make the cable.

You can get 1x SATA (male) to 4x SATA (female) extension cables - I've done
that to extended the existing loom rather than trying to get a cable
specific to your PSU.

> I think the original logic was you shouldn't run 4 x HD of one cable but 
> that was for spinners. I managed to find them on eBay in the end but the 
> first set didn't fit the PSU :-(

In terms of current you're unlikely to have a problem with SSDs or 2.5"
spinners.

Theo

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#60717

On 02/08/2026 in message <R0x*qw9MA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>To follow up on that point the cables that came with the unit certainly
>>got me running. However, my Corsair cases take 4 x HD stacked vertically
>>and I wanted a PSU to 4 x SATA power cable. I contacted Seasonic who said
>>they don't supply cables and pointed me to somebody in Germany but they
>>wanted me to give them a complete spec to make the cable.
>
>You can get 1x SATA (male) to 4x SATA (female) extension cables - I've done
>that to extended the existing loom rather than trying to get a cable
>specific to your PSU.

But not from Seasonic.


>>I think the original logic was you shouldn't run 4 x HD of one cable but
>>that was for spinners. I managed to find them on eBay in the end but the
>>first set didn't fit the PSU :-(
>
>In terms of current you're unlikely to have a problem with SSDs or 2.5"
>spinners.

Indeed.

-- 
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

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#60718

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 02/08/2026 in message <R0x*qw9MA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:
> 
> >Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> >>To follow up on that point the cables that came with the unit certainly
> >>got me running. However, my Corsair cases take 4 x HD stacked vertically
> >>and I wanted a PSU to 4 x SATA power cable. I contacted Seasonic who said
> >>they don't supply cables and pointed me to somebody in Germany but they
> >>wanted me to give them a complete spec to make the cable.
> >
> >You can get 1x SATA (male) to 4x SATA (female) extension cables - I've done
> >that to extended the existing loom rather than trying to get a cable
> >specific to your PSU.
> 
> But not from Seasonic.

Any random Amazon/etc seller is fine - it's just a generic adapter.  I
bought one recently for a couple of quid on Aliexpress.

One advantage of such cables is some of them don't wire the 3.3V cable. 
Newer SATA standards use one of the 3.3V pins as a 'drive sleep' input - if
you shucked a 3.5" HDD out of a USB enclosure, you have to disconnect the
3.3V for it to work.  My extension cable didn't have 3.3V so solved the
problem of the shucked drives not working with the regular SATA power that
wired all three voltages.

Theo

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#60721

On 02/08/2026 in message <R0x*qw9MA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>To follow up on that point the cables that came with the unit certainly
>>got me running. However, my Corsair cases take 4 x HD stacked vertically
>>and I wanted a PSU to 4 x SATA power cable. I contacted Seasonic who said
>>they don't supply cables and pointed me to somebody in Germany but they
>>wanted me to give them a complete spec to make the cable.
>
>You can get 1x SATA (male) to 4x SATA (female) extension cables - I've done
>that to extended the existing loom rather than trying to get a cable
>specific to your PSU.
>
>>I think the original logic was you shouldn't run 4 x HD of one cable but
>>that was for spinners. I managed to find them on eBay in the end but the
>>first set didn't fit the PSU :-(
>
>In terms of current you're unlikely to have a problem with SSDs or 2.5"
>spinners.
>
>Theo

Can I follow up on this. The unit arrived today and has only 2 x SATA 
power outputs. The two cables have 4 x SATA sockets on each, ironic as 
that is what I had so much trouble finding for the Seasonic.

The relevant spec is:

DC Output Rail Ratings
+5V: 20A (Max 110W)
+3.3V: 20A (Max 110W)
+12V: 70.8A (Max 850W)
+5Vsb: 3A (Max 15W)

Can you calculate from that if I can safely run all 4 3.5" Iron Wolf 
(5,400 RPM) from one cable and should I run two from each?

-- 
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Have you ever noticed that all the instruments searching for intelligent 
life are pointing away from Earth?

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#60722

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
> Can I follow up on this. The unit arrived today and has only 2 x SATA 
> power outputs. The two cables have 4 x SATA sockets on each, ironic as 
> that is what I had so much trouble finding for the Seasonic.
> 
> The relevant spec is:
> 
> DC Output Rail Ratings
> +5V: 20A (Max 110W)
> +3.3V: 20A (Max 110W)
> +12V: 70.8A (Max 850W)
> +5Vsb: 3A (Max 15W)
> 
> Can you calculate from that if I can safely run all 4 3.5" Iron Wolf 
> (5,400 RPM) from one cable and should I run two from each?

According to the datasheet:
https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/migrated-assets/www-content/datasheets/pdfs/ironwolf-12tb-emea-DS1904-21-2207GB-en_GB.pdf

average power is 4-10W per drive.  It doesn't give a 5/12V split, but
probably that's mostly from 12V.  So for 4 drives max power is 40W, P=IV so
Imax = 40/12 = 3.33A.  A SATA power connector (ie the connector on the end
of the extension) is rated at 1.5A per pin, and each voltage has 3 pins, so
rating is max 4.5A.

You should be fine.

Actually, the 4TB drives are 4-5W per drive so you can halve the current
requirements.  Still fine.

Theo

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#60723

On 03/08/2026 in message <hhc*IpeNA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>Can I follow up on this. The unit arrived today and has only 2 x SATA
>>power outputs. The two cables have 4 x SATA sockets on each, ironic as
>>that is what I had so much trouble finding for the Seasonic.
>>
>>The relevant spec is:
>>
>>DC Output Rail Ratings
>>+5V: 20A (Max 110W)
>>+3.3V: 20A (Max 110W)
>>+12V: 70.8A (Max 850W)
>>+5Vsb: 3A (Max 15W)
>>
>>Can you calculate from that if I can safely run all 4 3.5" Iron Wolf
>>(5,400 RPM) from one cable and should I run two from each?
>
>According to the datasheet:
>https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/migrated-assets/www-content/datasheets/pdfs/ironwolf-12tb-emea-DS1904-21-2207GB-en_GB.pdf
>
>average power is 4-10W per drive.  It doesn't give a 5/12V split, but
>probably that's mostly from 12V.  So for 4 drives max power is 40W, P=IV so
>Imax = 40/12 = 3.33A.  A SATA power connector (ie the connector on the end
>of the extension) is rated at 1.5A per pin, and each voltage has 3 pins, so
>rating is max 4.5A.
>
>You should be fine.
>
>Actually, the 4TB drives are 4-5W per drive so you can halve the current
>requirements.  Still fine.
>
>Theo

Many thanks Theo :-)

New build day today while my aircon if fitted in the lounge.

-- 
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those 
who don't.

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#60724

On 04/08/2026 08:07, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 03/08/2026 in message <hhc*IpeNA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo 
> wrote:
> 
>> Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can I follow up on this. The unit arrived today and has only 2 x SATA
>>> power outputs. The two cables have 4 x SATA sockets on each, ironic as
>>> that is what I had so much trouble finding for the Seasonic.
>>>
>>> The relevant spec is:
>>>
>>> DC Output Rail Ratings
>>> +5V: 20A (Max 110W)
>>> +3.3V: 20A (Max 110W)
>>> +12V: 70.8A (Max 850W)
>>> +5Vsb: 3A (Max 15W)
>>>
>>> Can you calculate from that if I can safely run all 4 3.5" Iron Wolf
>>> (5,400 RPM) from one cable and should I run two from each?
>>
>> According to the datasheet:
>> https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/migrated-assets/www- 
>> content/datasheets/pdfs/ironwolf-12tb-emea-DS1904-21-2207GB-en_GB.pdf
>>
>> average power is 4-10W per drive.  It doesn't give a 5/12V split, but
>> probably that's mostly from 12V.  So for 4 drives max power is 40W, 
>> P=IV so
>> Imax = 40/12 = 3.33A.  A SATA power connector (ie the connector on the 
>> end
>> of the extension) is rated at 1.5A per pin, and each voltage has 3 
>> pins, so
>> rating is max 4.5A.
>>
>> You should be fine.
>>
>> Actually, the 4TB drives are 4-5W per drive so you can halve the current
>> requirements.  Still fine.
>>
>> Theo
> 
> Many thanks Theo :-)
> 
> New build day today while my aircon if fitted in the lounge.
> 

with all those hard drives, PSUs, CPUs, no wonder you need air con! :-)

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#60725

On 04/08/2026 in message <114s4h7$1v5g5$1@dont-email.me> SH wrote:

>On 04/08/2026 08:07, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 03/08/2026 in message <hhc*IpeNA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo  
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Can I follow up on this. The unit arrived today and has only 2 x SATA
>>>>power outputs. The two cables have 4 x SATA sockets on each, ironic as
>>>>that is what I had so much trouble finding for the Seasonic.
>>>>
>>>>The relevant spec is:
>>>>
>>>>DC Output Rail Ratings
>>>>+5V: 20A (Max 110W)
>>>>+3.3V: 20A (Max 110W)
>>>>+12V: 70.8A (Max 850W)
>>>>+5Vsb: 3A (Max 15W)
>>>>
>>>>Can you calculate from that if I can safely run all 4 3.5" Iron Wolf
>>>>(5,400 RPM) from one cable and should I run two from each?
>>>
>>>According to the datasheet:
>>>https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/migrated-assets/www-  
>>>content/datasheets/pdfs/ironwolf-12tb-emea-DS1904-21-2207GB-en_GB.pdf
>>>
>>>average power is 4-10W per drive.  It doesn't give a 5/12V split, but
>>>probably that's mostly from 12V.  So for 4 drives max power is 40W,  P=IV 
>>>so
>>>Imax = 40/12 = 3.33A.  A SATA power connector (ie the connector on the  
>>>end
>>>of the extension) is rated at 1.5A per pin, and each voltage has 3  pins, 
>>>so
>>>rating is max 4.5A.
>>>
>>>You should be fine.
>>>
>>>Actually, the 4TB drives are 4-5W per drive so you can halve the current
>>>requirements.  Still fine.
>>>
>>>Theo
>>
>>Many thanks Theo :-)
>>
>>New build day today while my aircon if fitted in the lounge.
>>
>
>with all those hard drives, PSUs, CPUs, no wonder you need air con! :-)

	:-)

-- 
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I was standing in the park wondering why Frisbees got bigger as they get 
closer.
Then it hit me.

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#60726

On 04/08/2026 in message <xn0pt4chijsft31017@news.individual.net> Jeff 
Gaines wrote:

>>with all those hard drives, PSUs, CPUs, no wonder you need air con! :-)

It is fitted, they have hoovered and gone, temperature is on its way down 
to 21. Ariston unit, not much inside, the works are outside.

Has anybody else noticed how quickly you can pay money nowadays? I said I 
would pay before he left so  he stood next to me with his 'phone, an email 
appeared on my PC with an invoice attached, I faffed a bit because he is 
not in my list of payees but I went through the drill, I then said OK it's 
on its way and he said "got it".

-- 
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
How does a gender neutral bog differ from a unisex bog ?
It has a non-binary number on the door.

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#60712

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> I have a QNAP TS451+ with 4 x 4 TB (spinning) drives in RAID 6 giving me 
> about 7.5 TB usable and up to 2 disks failing (although I think it might 
> depend on which 2).

Should be any two with RAID6, you may be thinking of RAID10 ?

> It's slow to access over the network and snail's pace to administer vis 
> a browser.
> 
> I wonder about a new build based either on a HP Microserver (either N54L 
> or Gen 8) or an Asus Z170-P with hardware RAID.
> 
> I have no experience of H/W RAID and wonder if there is actually such a 
> thing. I have an LSI card

LSI make some good hardware RAID controllers (rebadged as PERC cards by 
Dell) they probably make other cards that are little more than SATA 
interfaces with BIOS "fake" RAID support.

> which runs slightly hotter than the Sun and 
> seemed a bit intermittent in performance when used with individual drives.

HP make Smart Array controllers, I think P222 are supported in gen8 
Microservers, seem to be lots of refurb/server-pulls on eBay or 
elsewhere, beware that nowadays HPE seem more concerned to only supply 
firmware upgrades to systems with paid support.  You'd need a correct 
type of SAS/SATA splitter cable

e.g. SFF-8087 to 4x SATA <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B00S7KTVN2>

> Is there such a thing as a H/W RAID card?

Of course, but they're not typically SOHO products

> If so any suggestions please? 
> It would need to be low profile for one of the HPs.

I've never used a M/B with the intel Z170 chipset, its RAID does seem a 
step-up from the boggy RAID0 or RAID1 BIOS support of most motherboards 
(i.e. it does RAID5 for a start)

> I also need a PSU if I go with the Asus board. I usually buy Seasonic 
> modular but they are very funny about additional cables and referred me 
> to a  company in Germany. Is there a reliable make that supplies 
> additional cables itself?

Corsair seem to

<https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/c/pc-components-accessories/psu-parts>

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#60713

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Jeff Gaines wrote:
> > 
> > I have no experience of H/W RAID and wonder if there is actually such a 
> > thing. I have an LSI card
> 
> LSI make some good hardware RAID controllers (rebadged as PERC cards by 
> Dell) they probably make other cards that are little more than SATA 
> interfaces with BIOS "fake" RAID support.

LSI / Broadcom are decent host bus adapters (HBAs), aka fancy SATA/SAS
cards.  They can do optional hardware RAID but you can just use them to add
more ports.  They aren't known for their power efficiency though.

> > which runs slightly hotter than the Sun and 
> > seemed a bit intermittent in performance when used with individual drives.
> 
> HP make Smart Array controllers, I think P222 are supported in gen8 
> Microservers, seem to be lots of refurb/server-pulls on eBay or 
> elsewhere, beware that nowadays HPE seem more concerned to only supply 
> firmware upgrades to systems with paid support.  You'd need a correct 
> type of SAS/SATA splitter cable

If it's running Linux, the system shouldn't care about 'supported in XYZ
chassis'.  If you boot off an SSD (which you should) then the RAID is
brought up entirely in the OS and you don't need system BIOS to support
booting from it (although you may need to use the RAID BIOS one-time to
configure the array).  Generally this stuff is the territory of enterprise-y
lockin - 'oooh, you need our brand RAID card to be supported on our brand
server, under our pricey service contract'.  As a user of second hand
hardware you shouldn't care about this.

HP does require a support contract for firmware updates - a good reason to
avoid.  (Although you may well be able to find 'certain places' with
them on the Internet)

If you want it to work in Windows that's a whole other thing.  Better to
steer clear and do software RAID.

> e.g. SFF-8087 to 4x SATA <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B00S7KTVN2>
> ^M
> > Is there such a thing as a H/W RAID card?
> 
> Of course, but they're not typically SOHO products
> 
> > If so any suggestions please? 
> > It would need to be low profile for one of the HPs.
> 
> I've never used a M/B with the intel Z170 chipset, its RAID does seem a 
> step-up from the boggy RAID0 or RAID1 BIOS support of most motherboards 
> (i.e. it does RAID5 for a start)

Don't use motherboard RAID - it's still 'fake raid' (it's just stuff in
the BIOS, the SATA controller is the same as ever), but now if your mobo
fails you have to replace it with the same one to keep it working. 
There was also stuff about needing a licence key from Intel to enable
certain RAID features, so maybe just a mobo swap isn't enough.

Just do software RAID.  If you don't want Linux, I hear Storage Spaces in
Windows is decent these days.

Theo

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#60715

On 02/08/2026 in message <O0x*ok9MA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>Just do software RAID.  If you don't want Linux, I hear Storage Spaces in
>Windows is decent these days.

Many thanks Andy/Theo :-)

This is a project rather than a necessity so I am going to put the Z170-P 
in a Corsair case and install Linux Mint xfce (that's what I use on the 
Media Server). I have ordered a Corsair PSU and found the I/O plate at the 
bottom of a box where it shouldn't have been!

I will then venture to the command line to install mdadm and try to set up 
my 4 x 4TB HDD in RAID 6.

That'll keep me out of mischief for a while.

Thanks again!

-- 
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
We chose to do this not because it is easy but because we thought it would 
be easy.

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