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Zugzwang 3.0

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  Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-24 07:33 -0400
    Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-24 14:47 +0000
    Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Ken <Ken@invalid.com> - 2026-05-24 10:57 -0500
      Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-05-24 12:34 -0400
      Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-24 17:50 +0000
        Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-25 03:12 +0000
          Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-26 12:07 +0000
            Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-27 12:34 +0000
              Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-27 13:17 +0000
                Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-28 22:03 +0000
                  Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-29 12:47 +0000
                  Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-05-29 15:31 +0200
                    Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-31 12:10 +0000
                    Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-05-31 22:49 +0000
                      Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-01 02:01 +0000
                        Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-03 07:24 +0200
                          Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-06-03 11:44 +0000
                            Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-04 04:11 +0200
                              Re: Zugzwang 3.0 "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-03 19:52 -0700
                                Re: Zugzwang 3.0 zendejo <zd@no.here> - 2026-06-04 09:48 -0600
                                Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-06-05 13:10 +0200
                      Re: Zugzwang 3.0 "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2026-05-31 19:14 -0700
                        Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-01 01:29 -0400
                          Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-06-01 11:50 +0000
                            Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-06-01 19:34 +0000
                              Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0000
                                Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-06-02 12:31 +0000
                                  Re: Zugzwang 3.0 "chine.bleu" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2026-06-02 05:34 -0700
                                  Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-02 12:46 +0000
                                    Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-06-10 12:21 +0000
                  Re: Zugzwang 3.0 bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2026-06-01 02:16 +0000
          Re: Zugzwang 3.0 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-29 08:06 -0400

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#1223440 — Zugzwang 3.0

 | ... 
 | In American terms: you break it, you own it. Israel and the
 | United States may not have succeeded in toppling the
 | Iranian regime, but they did shatter the fragile stability
 | of the Gulf, and, to a significant extent, the stability of
 | the global economy,  without achieving regime change in
 | Iran.
 | 
 | At that point, it became America's responsibility to
 | restore at least a measure of stability to the global
 | economic system, even at the high price of accepting the
 | survival of the Iranian regime, strengthening it
 | economically, and allowing it to preserve much of its
 | conventional capabilities.
 | 
 | It is an extremely costly price to pay. But when the
 | alternatives are  bad there was no other way. when you
 | break the system, you own the consequences.
 | 
<https://xcancel.com/citrinowicz/status/2058397679026049521>

    --bks

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#1223458

6 May 2026:
 | 
 | Exclusive: U.S. and Iran closing in on one-page memo to end
 | war, officials say
 | ...
<https://www.axios.com/2026/05/06/iran-us-deal-one-page-memo>

24 May 2026:
 | 
 | U.S.-Iran deal to end war will be finalized "shortly,"
 | Trump says
 | ...
<https://www.axios.com/2026/05/23/us-iran-trump-deal-war>

    --bks

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#1223467

Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
>   | ...
>   | In American terms: you break it, you own it. Israel and the
>   | United States may not have succeeded in toppling the
>   | Iranian regime, but they did shatter the fragile stability
>   | of the Gulf, and, to a significant extent, the stability of
>   | the global economy,  without achieving regime change in
>   | Iran.
Fragile stability??  Please explain how a country who was bragging about 
how many nuclear bombs they would soon be able to make, and also 
threatened other countries could be classified as "Stable."

I don't know if an agreement will be reached, but religious nut cases 
eager to die, with nuclear bombs seems just a little risky in my 
opinion.  Take your TDS meds.

>   |
>   | At that point, it became America's responsibility to
>   | restore at least a measure of stability to the global
>   | economic system, even at the high price of accepting the
>   | survival of the Iranian regime, strengthening it
>   | economically, and allowing it to preserve much of its
>   | conventional capabilities.
>   |
>   | It is an extremely costly price to pay. But when the
>   | alternatives are  bad there was no other way. when you
>   | break the system, you own the consequences.
>   |
> <https://xcancel.com/citrinowicz/status/2058397679026049521>
> 
>      --bks
> 

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#1223474

Ken wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:

> Bradley K. Sherman wrote:
>>   | ...
>>   | In American terms: you break it, you own it. Israel and the
>>   | United States may not have succeeded in toppling the
>>   | Iranian regime, but they did shatter the fragile stability
>>   | of the Gulf, and, to a significant extent, the stability of
>>   | the global economy,  without achieving regime change in
>>   | Iran.
>
> Fragile stability??  Please explain how a country who was bragging about 
> how many nuclear bombs they would soon be able to make, and also 
> threatened other countries could be classified as "Stable."

Uh, re-read the above, this time for comprehension.

> I don't know if an agreement will be reached, but religious nut cases 
> eager to die, with nuclear bombs seems just a little risky in my 
> opinion.  Take your TDS meds.

Trump made it easier for Iranians, perhaps, when he tore up
Obama's agreement in Trump's first term.

His "war of (poor) choice" leads to:

    -   economic crises
    -   even more hate for America
    -   alliances shifting in China's direction

All for a made-up claim about Iran's nuclear capabilities.
That Trump claimed last year "was obliterated".

>>   <snip>
>>
>>   | It is an extremely costly price to pay. But when the
>>   | alternatives are  bad there was no other way. when you
>>   | break the system, you own the consequences.
>>   |
>> <https://xcancel.com/citrinowicz/status/2058397679026049521>

-- 
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
		-- J. R. R. Tolkien, "The Lord of the Rings"

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#1223494

 | 
 | Why Trump Lost
 | 
 | The president failed to deliver on his Iran bluster, and in
 | the end fooled only himself.
 | ...
<https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/2026/05/why-trump-lost-iran/687291/>

    --bks

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#1223565

 | 
 | War Is Staggering to an Incoherent Defeat
 | 
 | Even the president's supporters are alarmed
 | ... 
<https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/05/trump-iran-war/687292/?gift=otEsSHbRYKNfFYMngVFweHRK4jdz3QikVHdvvmi-At0&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share>

    --bks

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#1223745

> | War Is Staggering to an Incoherent Defeat
> | Even the president's supporters are alarmed

 | 
 | The Collapse of Deterrence Against Iran?
 | 
 | Paradoxically, one of the most serious consequences of this
 | campaign may be the erosion of deterrence vis-a-vis Iran,
 | specifically, the loss of the implicit sword hanging over
 | Tehran as it considers whether to move toward nuclear
 | weapons capability.
 | 
 | For years, one of the main factors restraining the Iranian
 | leadership under Khamenei from openly advancing toward a
 | bomb was the fear that doing so could trigger a large-scale
 | military campaign aimed not merely at damaging Iran's
 | capabilities, but at threatening the regime itself.
 | 
 | From Tehran's perspective, however, Iran has now endured
 | precisely such a confrontation and survived it.
 | ...
<https://xcancel.com/citrinowicz/status/2058798135711785090>

    --bks

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#1223875

>> | War Is Staggering to an Incoherent Defeat
>> | Even the president's supporters are alarmed

> | The Collapse of Deterrence Against Iran?

 | 
 | Why Trump Keeps Getting Rolled in Negotiations
 | 
 | The president will try to spin any Iran deal he makes, but
 | he's ill-equipped to gain real concessions.
 | ... 
<https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/2026/05/iran-deal-trump-terrible-negotiator/687320/>

    --bks

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#1223878

bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) wrote in
news:10v6ocl$nij$2@reader1.panix.com: 

>>> | War Is Staggering to an Incoherent Defeat
>>> | Even the president's supporters are alarmed
> 
>> | The Collapse of Deterrence Against Iran?
> 
> | 
> | Why Trump Keeps Getting Rolled in Negotiations
> | 
> | The president will try to spin any Iran deal he makes, but
> | he's ill-equipped to gain real concessions.
> | ... 
> <https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/2026/05/iran-deal-trump-terrib
> le-negotiator/687320/> 
> 
>     --bks
> 




Remember TRump bragging that he was the Great Negotiator?

Ukraine peace talks - flopped.
Iran ceasefire - flopped. 
China summit - gave Xi everything he wanted. 
Putin summit - flopped. 
EU tariff talks - flopped. 
Canada tariff talks - flopped. 

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#1224100

>>>> | War Is Staggering to an Incoherent Defeat

 | 
 | "The Iranians will control the Strait of Hormuz for the
 | foreseeable future," says Fmr. White House Senior Advisor
 | @amoshochstein . "It doesn't even matter what the deal
 | says, and everybody in the region believes that." 
 |
 | [57-second CNBC video at URL]
 |
<https://xcancel.com/SquawkCNBC/status/2059988645218505119>

    --bks

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#1224180

>>>>> | War Is Staggering to an Incoherent Defeat

> | "The Iranians will control the Strait of Hormuz for the
> | foreseeable future," says Fmr. White House Senior Advisor
> | @amoshochstein . "It doesn't even matter what the deal
> | says, and everybody in the region believes that." 

 | ... 
 | Trump now faces a choice similar to that of a gambler in a
 | casino. He can walk away with a deal that may be imperfect
 | and politically unsatisfying but preserves his strategic
 | assets. Or he can double down in search of a better
 | outcome, accepting the possibility that future losses could
 | be far greater than those already incurred.
 | 
 | What appears to trouble Trump most is the absence of a
 | clear victory narrative. Yet the search for a more decisive
 | image of success may itself increase the risks to both his
 | presidency and American interests.
 | ...
<https://xcancel.com/citrinowicz/status/2060221807353844099>

    --bks

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#1224199

On Thu, 28 May 2026 22:03:02 -0000 (UTC), bks@panix.com (Bradley K.
Sherman) wrote:

>>>>> | War Is Staggering to an Incoherent Defeat
>
> | 
> | "The Iranians will control the Strait of Hormuz for the
> | foreseeable future," says Fmr. White House Senior Advisor
> | @amoshochstein . "It doesn't even matter what the deal
> | says, and everybody in the region believes that." 

Any agreement (not "deal") that is reached should include a clause
specifying that Iran is entitled to collect tolls from ships trading
with any country in the Gulf from which attacks were launched against
it sin 28 Feb 2026, until the cost of the damage has been recovered. 
\

-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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#1224427

>> | "The Iranians will control the Strait of Hormuz for the
>> | foreseeable future," says Fmr. White House Senior Advisor
>> | @amoshochstein . "It doesn't even matter what the deal
>> | says, and everybody in the region believes that." 

 | 
 | Qatar Says Temporary Toll at Strait of Hormuz Is Negotiable
 | ... 
<https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-05-30/qatar-says-temporary-toll-at-strait-of-hormuz-is-negotiable>

 | 
 | US has allowed some tankers from Qatar to cross Hormuz
 | despite payments to Iran
 | ...
<https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-us-has-allowed-some-tankers-from-qatar-to-cross-hormuz-despite-payments-to-iran/>

    --bks

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#1224514

 | 
 | Iran entered these negotiations with virtually no trust in
 | the U.S. administration, and especially in President Trump. 
 | 
 | At the same time, Tehran believes it emerged from the
 | recent confrontation with significant achievements and with
 | a clear understanding that the last thing Washington wants
 | right now is another escalation. The administration's
 | efforts to contain tensions in the Strait of Hormuz, even
 | after recent flare-ups, have only reinforced that
 | perception.
 | 
 | Under these circumstances, the chances of Iran backing down
 | on its core negotiating positions are extremely low. This
 | applies to its demand for meaningful economic relief from
 | the outset, its insistence on preserving its sovereign
 | rights in Hormuz, and its willingness to discuss
 | limitations on its nuclear program only as part of a later
 | stage of the process.
 | 
 | If Washington's demands clash with these fundamental
 | positions, Iran is likely to prefer no deal at all rather
 | than accept an agreement that, in its view, fails to
 | improve its strategic situation. 
 | ...
<https://xcancel.com/citrinowicz/status/2061187016948379934>

    --bks

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#1224527

bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) wrote in news:10vidtk$87r$2
@reader1.panix.com:

> | 
> | Iran entered these negotiations with virtually no trust in
> | the U.S. administration, and especially in President Trump. 
> | 


   His wives trusted Trump.

   His investors trusted Trump.

   His suppliers trusted Trump.

   His "students" trusted Trump.

   Guiliani trusted Trump. 

   His lawyers trusted Trump. 

   His fired appointees trusted Trump.

   Why won't Iran trust Trump?  

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#1224830

On Mon, 01 Jun 2026 02:01:59 +0000, Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com>
wrote:

>bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) wrote in news:10vidtk$87r$2
>@reader1.panix.com:
>
>> | 
>> | Iran entered these negotiations with virtually no trust in
>> | the U.S. administration, and especially in President Trump. 
>> | 
>
>
>   Why won't Iran trust Trump?  

Because Trump's military attacked Iran three times while negotiations
were talking place, so clearly he does not negotiate in good faith. 



-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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#1224854

 | 
 | Iran strikes Kuwait and Bahrain today, likely in response
 | for a strike on a vessel near Kharg earlier today. 
 | 
 | To be frank, these are necessary and logical moves by Iran.
 | The United States is clearly testing and proving the
 | Iranian's ability to strike, and more importantly, their
 | willingness to do so.
 | 
 | Unfortunately for the U.S... Iran seems plenty willing to
 | go back to war, and the United States, and Trump in
 | particular, clearly want an off-ramp. 
 | 
 | This divergence will only lead to greater Iranian leverage
 | at the negotiating table.
 |
<https://xcancel.com/BrettErickson28/status/2061947662669341170>

    --bks

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#1224924

On Wed, 3 Jun 2026 11:44:17 -0000 (UTC), bks@panix.com (Bradley K.
Sherman) wrote:

> | 
> | Iran strikes Kuwait and Bahrain today, likely in response
> | for a strike on a vessel near Kharg earlier today. 
> | 
> | To be frank, these are necessary and logical moves by Iran.
> | The United States is clearly testing and proving the
> | Iranian's ability to strike, and more importantly, their
> | willingness to do so.
> | 
> | Unfortunately for the U.S... Iran seems plenty willing to
> | go back to war, and the United States, and Trump in
> | particular, clearly want an off-ramp. 

And the only one he can find is the ramp by which he got on to the
highway facing the oncoming traffic. The only way he can get off is by
reversing to the place where he came on. So he prevaricates, hoping
the problem he got himself into will go away. 


-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

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#1224931

Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2026 11:44:17 -0000 (UTC), bks@panix.com (Bradley K.
> Sherman) wrote:
>
>> |
>> | Iran strikes Kuwait and Bahrain today, likely in response
>> | for a strike on a vessel near Kharg earlier today.
>> |
>> | To be frank, these are necessary and logical moves by Iran.
>> | The United States is clearly testing and proving the
>> | Iranian's ability to strike, and more importantly, their
>> | willingness to do so.
>> |
>> | Unfortunately for the U.S... Iran seems plenty willing to
>> | go back to war, and the United States, and Trump in
>> | particular, clearly want an off-ramp.
>
> And the only one he can find is the ramp by which he got on to the
> highway facing the oncoming traffic. The only way he can get off is by
> reversing to the place where he came on. So he prevaricates, hoping
> the problem he got himself into will go away.

Delusion is stronger than reality.

USA has laws that allow the crazy to be suspended. Our refusal to do so 
exposes our toxicity. Even with the crazy gone I do not expect other 
countries to trust the USA again.

-- 
Siri Seal of Disavowal #777-000. Disavowed. Denied.  @
NO KINGS    For I desire mercy not sacrifice.       /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 5.5        / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

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#1224986

On 6/3/26 8:52 PM, chine.bleu wrote:
>>
> 
> Delusion is stronger than reality.

Hence your sainted mockingbird MSM...yes...

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