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Groups > sci.space.policy > #55633 > unrolled thread
| Started by | dumpster4@hotmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-03-25 10:02 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-04-11 19:09 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 457 — 20 participants |
Back to article view | Back to sci.space.policy
The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon dumpster4@hotmail.com - 2016-03-25 10:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-25 18:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2016-03-26 11:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-26 16:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon dumpster4@hotmail.com - 2016-03-26 23:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 00:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 16:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-03-27 22:26 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 19:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-03 12:52 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-03 17:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 15:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 18:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-03 18:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 01:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-04 15:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-04 18:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 12:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2016-04-04 20:13 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 23:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> - 2016-04-05 03:50 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-05 18:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 16:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-05 18:47 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 00:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-04-07 06:10 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 18:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 16:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-08 14:23 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 09:57 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 09:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 10:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 12:53 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 19:38 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-18 00:27 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 17:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 00:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:14 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 03:38 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:58 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 00:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-04-07 06:24 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 04:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 05:53 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 16:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 19:53 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 03:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-05 23:06 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-07 19:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 13:04 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-07 21:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 00:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 17:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 21:47 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-09 13:55 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-09 10:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 22:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 04:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 12:53 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 12:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 14:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 08:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-10 16:40 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 15:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-11 19:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 20:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:04 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 22:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 21:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 05:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 00:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 13:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 21:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 02:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 21:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 15:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 04:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 22:02 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:04 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:21 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 22:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 01:33 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 20:44 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-17 05:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 23:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-17 12:54 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-17 13:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon dumpster4@hotmail.com - 2016-04-14 08:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 13:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 14:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 23:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:10 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:40 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:11 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 12:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-09 00:01 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 09:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Womack <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-04-09 09:21 +0100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 14:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 16:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 15:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 10:45 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 19:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:41 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-06 17:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 12:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:28 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 23:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:52 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:31 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:42 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:07 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-07 15:55 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 14:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:36 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:19 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 16:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-04-09 18:17 -0600
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 00:37 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 19:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-10 16:50 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:41 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:45 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:08 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 00:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-05 17:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-05 18:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:09 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-04-07 08:28 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-06 17:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 18:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:43 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 20:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 16:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 23:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 19:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 03:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 22:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 06:17 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 12:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 00:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:59 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:18 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 07:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:45 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:42 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:12 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:36 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:08 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-06 22:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 17:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 04:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 23:31 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 19:56 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:34 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:48 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 22:59 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:19 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 20:57 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:44 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:14 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:29 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-12 21:09 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2016-04-08 20:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 23:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 04:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-07 16:20 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 20:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-07 14:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-07 22:43 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 18:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-08 23:12 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 20:24 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 05:49 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 23:09 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 06:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 08:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 18:54 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:10 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 21:03 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 06:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 06:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 16:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 16:16 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:16 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 07:40 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 18:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:27 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 17:27 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-04-07 21:40 -0500
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 21:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-09 15:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 19:02 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 13:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-09 21:14 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 20:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:37 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 06:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 08:11 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:51 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:51 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:53 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:31 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 18:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 03:22 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:01 +0000
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Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:53 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:28 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 01:47 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 20:23 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 04:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 22:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:43 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-10 17:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-10 17:56 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 17:44 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 01:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-10 20:46 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 05:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 01:43 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:48 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hpe.com> - 2016-04-11 18:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-11 19:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:13 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:09 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:45 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-13 15:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 09:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:57 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:15 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:47 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:05 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:25 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:30 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 02:09 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 21:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:33 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:46 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 02:38 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:57 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:25 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:21 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:55 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 20:49 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 19:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-17 05:23 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 23:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-14 16:46 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:06 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:31 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:27 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 16:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:26 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 18:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 02:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 21:41 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 15:50 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 17:53 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 12:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:35 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:17 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:48 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:29 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:05 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:32 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:20 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:38 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-15 16:00 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 23:52 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 02:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 16:59 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 11:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-16 19:22 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-16 12:54 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:12 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 18:24 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 15:34 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-12 23:15 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 22:18 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 18:07 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 13:01 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-13 20:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-13 19:22 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 04:08 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 00:49 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 18:10 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 14:39 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-14 22:30 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 17:07 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 00:34 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-14 19:21 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-04-15 21:39 +0000
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-12 04:03 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-03-28 11:47 +1100
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 21:35 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2016-03-28 08:12 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-03-28 19:10 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2016-03-28 20:10 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-03-29 07:42 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-03-29 18:17 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2016-03-29 23:03 -0400
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-29 21:06 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-29 21:19 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 20:56 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-03-29 04:32 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-01 23:58 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2016-04-07 20:26 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 08:21 -0700
Re: The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-04-11 19:09 -0700
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 00:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #55696 |
In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote: >>> In article <1poatc-pc1.ln1@mail.specsol.com> >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> >>>> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>> > For your reference, records indicate that >>>> > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote: >>>> >> > Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy becomes >>>> >> > operational: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just $10 >>>> >> > billion. >>>> >> > What are we waiting for? >>>> >> >>>> >> $10 billion without a better purpose? >>>> > >>>> > Some might argue that blowing up shit in the Middle East is not a >>>> > better purpose. A more pointed question would be whether or not that >>>> > budget and timeline is actually accurate, or if it won?t be more like >>>> > $200 billion spent and a wait until 2035. >>>> > >>>> >> Some rational reason to "colonise" the moon, which will never happen >>>> >> as no Moon colony could ever be self supporting. >>>> > >>>> > History has shown a pretty big halo effect for such projects, so I >>>> > would expect quite a bit of indirect economic value in new Moon and >>>> > Mars missions. But I would agree that NASA would do well to make a >>>> > more direct case for why a Moon colony would be a valuable resource >>>> > to have. >>>> >>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and >>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. .... >>> >>> Iceland? Greenland? Northern Newfundland? >>> >>> Hell, for much of Europe surviving after being dropped nude in the >>> Winter is not likely. >>> >>> If the Pilgrims had landed at Plymouth bare assed in the Winter >>> they would probably not have survived long. >>> >>> You might want to amend your statement about all historical >>> colonies. >>> >> >>OK, dropped in with nothing more than a heavy winter coat. >> > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > bullshit. I never said anything like that. However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and repair parts for high tech equipment. For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such manufacturing could be established in the colonies. In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>technology to survive. >> > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > technology available at the time. And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates back to at least the 10th Century. And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans appeared. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 22:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ne1r84$9eo$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55698 |
Some experiments suggest we might be able to grow food on Mars if we add the organics commonly found in Earth soils: Scientists just grew vegetables in ‘Martian’ soil — but there’s a catch. By Rachel Feltman March 9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/03/09/scientists-just-grew-vegetables-in-martian-soil-but-theres-a-catch/ But Mars Curiosity, finally, has shown Mars soils do contain organics. Then we may be able to produce the needed organics from those already there. Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- wrote in message news:nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com... In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote: >>> In article <1poatc-pc1.ln1@mail.specsol.com> >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> >>>> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>> > For your reference, records indicate that >>>> > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy >>>> >> > becomes >>>> >> > operational: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just >>>> >> > $10 >>>> >> > billion. >>>> >> > What are we waiting for? >>>> >> >>>> >> $10 billion without a better purpose? >>>> > >>>> > Some might argue that blowing up shit in the Middle East is not a >>>> > better purpose. A more pointed question would be whether or not that >>>> > budget and timeline is actually accurate, or if it won?t be more like >>>> > $200 billion spent and a wait until 2035. >>>> > >>>> >> Some rational reason to "colonise" the moon, which will never happen >>>> >> as no Moon colony could ever be self supporting. >>>> > >>>> > History has shown a pretty big halo effect for such projects, so I >>>> > would expect quite a bit of indirect economic value in new Moon and >>>> > Mars missions. But I would agree that NASA would do well to make a >>>> > more direct case for why a Moon colony would be a valuable resource >>>> > to have. >>>> >>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and >>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. .... >>> >>> Iceland? Greenland? Northern Newfundland? >>> >>> Hell, for much of Europe surviving after being dropped nude in the >>> Winter is not likely. >>> >>> If the Pilgrims had landed at Plymouth bare assed in the Winter >>> they would probably not have survived long. >>> >>> You might want to amend your statement about all historical >>> colonies. >>> >> >>OK, dropped in with nothing more than a heavy winter coat. >> > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > bullshit. I never said anything like that. However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and repair parts for high tech equipment. For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such manufacturing could be established in the colonies. In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>technology to survive. >> > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > technology available at the time. And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates back to at least the 10th Century. And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans appeared. -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 03:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tucetc-5hd.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #55701 |
In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote: > > Some experiments suggest we might be able to grow food on Mars if we add the > organics commonly found in Earth soils: And nitrogen for the air, nitrates for the soil and water and put them under a heated pressure dome. As long as they are plants that don't require a lot of sunlight, in which case you have to add grow lights. Don't forget the pumps to keep the dome pressurized and the huge power source for the pumps and possible grow lights. Of course, you will need most of that stuff anyway, except for the nitrogen and nitrates, to keep humans alive. -- Jim Pennino
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-16 11:58 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <netn8l$q6q$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55701 |
There is also this: Chinese Use Space Radiation to Mutate Food Crops. http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-hazards/radiation/chinese-space-radiation-mutate-food-crops/ Six foot cucumbers. Yum! Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Robert Clark" wrote in message news:ne1r84$9eo$2@dont-email.me... Some experiments suggest we might be able to grow food on Mars if we add the organics commonly found in Earth soils: Scientists just grew vegetables in ‘Martian’ soil — but there’s a catch. By Rachel Feltman March 9 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/03/09/scientists-just-grew-vegetables-in-martian-soil-but-theres-a-catch/ But Mars Curiosity, finally, has shown Mars soils do contain organics. Then we may be able to produce the needed organics from those already there. Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- wrote in message news:nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com... In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote: >>> In article <1poatc-pc1.ln1@mail.specsol.com> >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> >>>> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote: >>>> > For your reference, records indicate that >>>> > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy >>>> >> > becomes >>>> >> > operational: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just >>>> >> > $10 >>>> >> > billion. >>>> >> > What are we waiting for? >>>> >> >>>> >> $10 billion without a better purpose? >>>> > >>>> > Some might argue that blowing up shit in the Middle East is not a >>>> > better purpose. A more pointed question would be whether or not that >>>> > budget and timeline is actually accurate, or if it won?t be more like >>>> > $200 billion spent and a wait until 2035. >>>> > >>>> >> Some rational reason to "colonise" the moon, which will never happen >>>> >> as no Moon colony could ever be self supporting. >>>> > >>>> > History has shown a pretty big halo effect for such projects, so I >>>> > would expect quite a bit of indirect economic value in new Moon and >>>> > Mars missions. But I would agree that NASA would do well to make a >>>> > more direct case for why a Moon colony would be a valuable resource >>>> > to have. >>>> >>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and >>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. .... >>> >>> Iceland? Greenland? Northern Newfundland? >>> >>> Hell, for much of Europe surviving after being dropped nude in the >>> Winter is not likely. >>> >>> If the Pilgrims had landed at Plymouth bare assed in the Winter >>> they would probably not have survived long. >>> >>> You might want to amend your statement about all historical >>> colonies. >>> >> >>OK, dropped in with nothing more than a heavy winter coat. >> > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > bullshit. I never said anything like that. However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and repair parts for high tech equipment. For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such manufacturing could be established in the colonies. In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>technology to survive. >> > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > technology available at the time. And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates back to at least the 10th Century. And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans appeared. -- Jim Pennino --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-16 16:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <j55auc-2dk.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #56242 |
In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote: > There is also this: > > Chinese Use Space Radiation to Mutate Food Crops. > http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-hazards/radiation/chinese-space-radiation-mutate-food-crops/ > > Six foot cucumbers. Yum! > > Bob Clark Given all the hoopla over GMO, I'm sure this would be well received... -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 00:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <l4d9gbd9lgupq29j4muavomosib6gecl06@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #55698 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>In sci.physics Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> wrote:
>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>
>>>In sci.physics Jack Ryan <mixmaster@remailer.cpunk.us> wrote:
>>>> In article <1poatc-pc1.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
>>>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In sci.physics Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> wrote:
>>>>> > For your reference, records indicate that
>>>>> > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> > Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy becomes
>>>>> >> > operational:
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just $10
>>>>> >> > billion.
>>>>> >> > What are we waiting for?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> $10 billion without a better purpose?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Some might argue that blowing up shit in the Middle East is not a
>>>>> > better purpose. A more pointed question would be whether or not that
>>>>> > budget and timeline is actually accurate, or if it won?t be more like
>>>>> > $200 billion spent and a wait until 2035.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Some rational reason to "colonise" the moon, which will never happen
>>>>> >> as no Moon colony could ever be self supporting.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > History has shown a pretty big halo effect for such projects, so I
>>>>> > would expect quite a bit of indirect economic value in new Moon and
>>>>> > Mars missions. But I would agree that NASA would do well to make a
>>>>> > more direct case for why a Moon colony would be a valuable resource
>>>>> > to have.
>>>>>
>>>>> All historical colonizations have been to places with air, water, and
>>>>> growing things where one could be dropped nude and survive. ....
>>>>
>>>> Iceland? Greenland? Northern Newfundland?
>>>>
>>>> Hell, for much of Europe surviving after being dropped nude in the
>>>> Winter is not likely.
>>>>
>>>> If the Pilgrims had landed at Plymouth bare assed in the Winter
>>>> they would probably not have survived long.
>>>>
>>>> You might want to amend your statement about all historical
>>>> colonies.
>>>>
>>>
>>>OK, dropped in with nothing more than a heavy winter coat.
>>>
>>
>> Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to
>> disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily
>> successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be
>> bullshit.
>>
>
>I never said anything like that.
>
Of course you did.
>
>However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and
>repair parts for high tech equipment.
>
Lots of that last one so that they could do those first three. Just
like what a modern colony would require.
>
>For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such
>manufacturing could be established in the colonies.
>
You mean that 'high tech equipment. That wasn't 'luxuries' and
colonies that didn't get it tended to fail.
>
>In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things
>like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber.
>
Mostly Spanish and French colonies were like that. There's a reason
why those tended to fail and North American is largely derived from
English colonies which didn't behave that way.
Pleased to see that Jimp the Chimp hasn't changed over the years....
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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| From | Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 06:24 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.316fff733ac66c419899a8@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #55698 |
In article <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com says... > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > > bullshit. > > I never said anything like that. > > However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and > repair parts for high tech equipment. Water is available on both the moon and Mars at at least one of the poles on each. Oxygen is also available on both the moon and Mars; it just needs to be extracted. Food can therefore be grown. Repair parts for high tech equipment is exactly the sort of thing that Fred is talking about when he says "support". For early earth colonies, things which are difficult to manufacture locally, like anything made of metal, had to be shipped in, unless there was a readily available source of metal at the colony and all of the tools to smelt and then process and work with it. > For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such > manufacturing could be established in the colonies. > > In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things > like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. > Agreed that this pattern would often continue with even well established colonies. The colony would mostly ship back raw materials, or goods easily manufactured locally, and the "old world" would send the colony finished "hard" goods. > There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the > shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. Depends. If the fuel is largely made locally (on the moon or Mars), the cost is local too. It may be more difficult to extract, but the supply (the entire planet or moon) versus demand (a fledgling colony) would be quite favorable. > >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century > >>technology to survive. > >> > > > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > > technology available at the time. > > And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates > back to at least the 10th Century. Most certainly, but even that early tech (e.g. metal knives, axes, and etc) would be quite difficult to manufacture at many early colonies which may lack readily available raw materials (e.g. iron ore right on the surface). > And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established > were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans > appeared. "Just fine" is a stretch, depending on the technological level of the indigenous populations. (Primitive) technologies like farming and domestication and selective breeding of animals *greatly* increased the potential population density of even indigenous populations. Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
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| From | William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 04:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0e98c3b2-3eb8-466b-87f8-c2f09576b4fb@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55734 |
On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:24:35 PM UTC+12, Jeff Findley wrote: > In article <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com > says... > > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > > > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > > > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > > > bullshit. > > > > I never said anything like that. > > > > However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and > > repair parts for high tech equipment. > > Water is available on both the moon and Mars at at least one of the > poles on each. Oxygen is also available on both the moon and Mars; it > just needs to be extracted. Food can therefore be grown. > > Repair parts for high tech equipment is exactly the sort of thing that > Fred is talking about when he says "support". For early earth colonies, > things which are difficult to manufacture locally, like anything made of > metal, had to be shipped in, unless there was a readily available source > of metal at the colony and all of the tools to smelt and then process > and work with it. > > > For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such > > manufacturing could be established in the colonies. > > > > In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things > > like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. > > > > Agreed that this pattern would often continue with even well established > colonies. The colony would mostly ship back raw materials, or goods > easily manufactured locally, and the "old world" would send the colony > finished "hard" goods. > > > There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the > > shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. > > Depends. If the fuel is largely made locally (on the moon or Mars), the > cost is local too. It may be more difficult to extract, but the supply > (the entire planet or moon) versus demand (a fledgling colony) would be > quite favorable. > > > >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century > > >>technology to survive. > > >> > > > > > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > > > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > > > technology available at the time. > > > > And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates > > back to at least the 10th Century. > > Most certainly, but even that early tech (e.g. metal knives, axes, and > etc) would be quite difficult to manufacture at many early colonies > which may lack readily available raw materials (e.g. iron ore right on > the surface). > > > And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established > > were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans > > appeared. > > "Just fine" is a stretch, depending on the technological level of the > indigenous populations. (Primitive) technologies like farming and > domestication and selective breeding of animals *greatly* increased the > potential population density of even indigenous populations. > > Jeff > -- > All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. > These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, > employer, or any organization that I am a member of. With the discovery of ice caps on Mercury, the feeling among many planetary scientists is that water is common in the solar system, and in fact common in all star systems. Many now feel that the hydrogen coming out of the sun finds its way to the planets and other objects that orbit the sun, and interact with silicates and other oxides, to form water. http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~ryden/ast825/ch11.pdf 20.3x10^-15 litres/sec/m2. This 640 cc per year per square kilometer. Taking an asteroid and moving it to Earth Mars Lagrange Point One, and making a faceted mirror that focuses light to equal that of Earth, requires a mirror 6,612 miles across. Putting a solar powered magnetic ring of that size at that point, focuses protons onto the Martian surface, producing 592 million litres of water on the martian surface each (Earth) year. Of course, colliding with Martian CO2 produces water as well as oil and carbon deposits. This all with fairly near term technology.
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| From | William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 05:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b60b8bc3-2434-478e-8e27-f5236117bae6@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55734 |
On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 10:24:35 PM UTC+12, Jeff Findley wrote:
> In article <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
> says...
> > > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to
> > > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily
> > > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be
> > > bullshit.
> >
> > I never said anything like that.
> >
> > However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and
> > repair parts for high tech equipment.
>
> Water is available on both the moon and Mars at at least one of the
> poles on each. Oxygen is also available on both the moon and Mars; it
> just needs to be extracted. Food can therefore be grown.
>
> Repair parts for high tech equipment is exactly the sort of thing that
> Fred is talking about when he says "support". For early earth colonies,
> things which are difficult to manufacture locally, like anything made of
> metal, had to be shipped in, unless there was a readily available source
> of metal at the colony and all of the tools to smelt and then process
> and work with it.
>
> > For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such
> > manufacturing could be established in the colonies.
> >
> > In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things
> > like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber.
> >
>
> Agreed that this pattern would often continue with even well established
> colonies. The colony would mostly ship back raw materials, or goods
> easily manufactured locally, and the "old world" would send the colony
> finished "hard" goods.
>
> > There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the
> > shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth.
>
> Depends. If the fuel is largely made locally (on the moon or Mars), the
> cost is local too. It may be more difficult to extract, but the supply
> (the entire planet or moon) versus demand (a fledgling colony) would be
> quite favorable.
>
> > >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century
> > >>technology to survive.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the
> > > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best
> > > technology available at the time.
> >
> > And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates
> > back to at least the 10th Century.
>
> Most certainly, but even that early tech (e.g. metal knives, axes, and
> etc) would be quite difficult to manufacture at many early colonies
> which may lack readily available raw materials (e.g. iron ore right on
> the surface).
>
> > And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established
> > were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans
> > appeared.
>
> "Just fine" is a stretch, depending on the technological level of the
> indigenous populations. (Primitive) technologies like farming and
> domestication and selective breeding of animals *greatly* increased the
> potential population density of even indigenous populations.
>
> Jeff
> --
> All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
> These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
> employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19780044024
http://www.johnslewis.com/2011/01/demandite-and-resources-in-space.html
Modern methods of production will make use of demandite to make anything desired. This has long been known.
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=iKnaLbRtQasC&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=demandite&source=bl&ots=qwP5tMw4SZ&sig=tGnkoczMosLKU1qqvwZBCA29zgE&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=demandite&f=false
The issue is the biosphere. The biosphere cannot support - according to conventional wisdom - a large number of people living at a high standard. Self replicating machines transforming the Earth into a factory for billions of high tech consumers cannot be sustained. Self replicating machinery operating automatically throughout the asteroid belt and inner solar system, can transform worlds and make large volumes of high quality products available on Earth.
Here is what we consume in the advanced industrial world;
Fuel......... 0.42 3242.82
Building.... 0.40 3088.40
Agriculture 0.10 772.10
Metals...... 0.06 463.26
Others...... 0.02 154.42
Total......... 1.00 7721.00
So, the average industrial consumer uses 7.72 metric tons of stuff each year. 3.24 tons of that is fuel in the form of oil, natural gas and coal. 3.09 tons of stuff is in the form of building materials. Glass, stone, gravel, concrete, and so forth. We don't need the first with beamed energy from space. We don't need to bring stones and sand to Earth. We can use materials here without too much trouble. We can even reycle the materials we want to clean up.
So, the balance of imports, is metals and agriculture products, including clothing and medicines, construction timber, paper, as well as plastics and electronics.
This adds up to no more than 1.4 metric tons moved from the asteroids to Earth, prior to doing the long term solution of moving people from the Earth to the asteroids. Importing goods requires that we slow products down by a small amount, so they fall to Earth, to be captured at Earth and distributed and consumed.
So, during the shipping season from Ceres say;
Ceres: 2.7675 AU - semimajor axis
17.905 km/sec - average orbital speed
0.510 km/sec - escape velocity
Earth: 1.0000 AU - semimajor axis
29.782 km/sec - average orbital velocity
11.186 km/sec - escape velocity
So, the Vis-Viva equation gives you the velocity at each point in an orbit. So a Hohmann transfer orbit that connects Earth with Ceres is
( 2.7675 + 1.0000 ) / 2 = 1.88375
V = sqrt( 2/r - 1/a )
So, at r=2.7675 and a= 1.88375 we have
V = sqrt( 2/2.7675 - 1/1.88375) = 0.43797 times earth's orbital velocity
0.43797 * 29.782 = 13.044 km/sec at Ceres. So,
17.905 - 13.044 = 4.861 km/sec delta vee to fall from Ceres orbit to Earth orbit around the Sun.
Now the escape velocity of Ceres is 0.510 km/sec. So, the speed at which an object must be projected from Ceres to Earth is;
sqrt( 0.510^2 + 4.861^2) = 4.888 km/sec.
Now, to project 1.4 metric tons from Ceres to Earth requires that it be accelerated to this speed. If done with a solar powered photonic thruster, this will use;
1/2 * 1400 kg * 4.888^2 = 16.722 GJ per year.
This is 529.9 Watts continuous per person at Ceres, with 80% overall efficiency, this requires 3.71 sq meters of solar collector at Ceres per person!
Adding up across all asteroids for 7.28 billion person this is a total of 3.86 trillion watts! It takes 15.5 months to get to Earth.
To break down 1,400 kg into plasma and reassemble it at the atomic level, concentrating the needed atoms, requires 19.6 GJ per year. This is a little more energy requiring a little larger collector.
On average, 1.16 billion tons enter Earth's atmosphere every hour in billions of payloads and contain products that fly directly to the person's needing the material. The 15.5 month supply chain can be considered a warehouse, and the last three days orders are placed and final course corrections are made to bring the product to the person. Utility fog on Earth recycles the wastes including the packaging.
So, we won't be going to Mars living under a dome and growing minks to export fur back to Earth. We will send first;
(1) a network of automatic communications satellites to capture the telecom market,
(2) a network of automatic power satellites to capture the energy market,
(3) a network of self replicating automatic manufacturing satellites to capture the manufacturing market,
and finally,
(4) manufacture residential colonies in the asteroid belt and send people to these colonies reducing human numbers to 500 million in five years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZNzz4SaTYk
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 19:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <tgnitc-mir.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #55734 |
In sci.physics Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> wrote: > In article <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com > says... >> > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to >> > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily >> > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be >> > bullshit. >> >> I never said anything like that. >> >> However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and >> repair parts for high tech equipment. > > Water is available on both the moon and Mars at at least one of the > poles on each. Oxygen is also available on both the moon and Mars; it > just needs to be extracted. Food can therefore be grown. Sure, all this is theoretically posible at a horrendous cost that no one will ever want to finance. > Repair parts for high tech equipment is exactly the sort of thing that > Fred is talking about when he says "support". For early earth colonies, > things which are difficult to manufacture locally, like anything made of > metal, had to be shipped in, unless there was a readily available source > of metal at the colony and all of the tools to smelt and then process > and work with it. Repair parts take more than metal. Concider all the bits and pieces needed to make something as simple as a relay to control a blower motor. You need several different kinds of metal and alloys as well as wire and insulators. >> For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such >> manufacturing could be established in the colonies. >> >> In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things >> like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. >> > > Agreed that this pattern would often continue with even well established > colonies. The colony would mostly ship back raw materials, or goods > easily manufactured locally, and the "old world" would send the colony > finished "hard" goods. > >> There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the >> shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. > > Depends. If the fuel is largely made locally (on the moon or Mars), the > cost is local too. It may be more difficult to extract, but the supply > (the entire planet or moon) versus demand (a fledgling colony) would be > quite favorable. Cost is cost no matter where it comes from and again, there is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost. >> >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >> >>technology to survive. >> >> >> > >> > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the >> > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best >> > technology available at the time. >> >> And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates >> back to at least the 10th Century. > > Most certainly, but even that early tech (e.g. metal knives, axes, and > etc) would be quite difficult to manufacture at many early colonies > which may lack readily available raw materials (e.g. iron ore right on > the surface). Totally misses the point; the colonies could buy such things until local production was establishe with things like timber, fur, and spices. >> And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established >> were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans >> appeared. > > "Just fine" is a stretch, depending on the technological level of the > indigenous populations. (Primitive) technologies like farming and > domestication and selective breeding of animals *greatly* increased the > potential population density of even indigenous populations. Point missed yet again. The indigenous populations were able to live, in some cases for thousands of years, without any resupply from Europe. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 16:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d979c9f9-2c4b-40fa-95a5-bd618a18598f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55744 |
On Friday, April 8, 2016 at 7:16:04 AM UTC+12, ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > In sci.physics Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> wrote: > > In article <nq1etc-hec.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com > > says... > >> > Colonies with insufficient support from 'back home' tended to > >> > disappear. You talk like all colonization attempts are easily > >> > successful. There are enough failed colonies to prove that to be > >> > bullshit. > >> > >> I never said anything like that. > >> > >> However, support from 'back home' wasn't oxygen, food, water, and > >> repair parts for high tech equipment. > > > > Water is available on both the moon and Mars at at least one of the > > poles on each. Oxygen is also available on both the moon and Mars; it > > just needs to be extracted. Food can therefore be grown. > > Sure, all this is theoretically posible Its possible in practice as well. > at a horrendous cost that no > one will ever want to finance. Nonsense. You have no understandng of what it required using current best practices. If you did you would see just how simple it all is. > > Repair parts for high tech equipment is exactly the sort of thing that > > Fred is talking about when he says "support". For early earth colonies, > > things which are difficult to manufacture locally, like anything made of > > metal, had to be shipped in, unless there was a readily available source > > of metal at the colony and all of the tools to smelt and then process > > and work with it. > > Repair parts take more than metal. True. > Concider Consider you mean. > all the bits and pieces > needed to make something as simple as a relay to control a blower > motor. Yes, people are considering that and making machines that make machines - Self replicating machine systems are a solved problem. Have been since 2005. Now, the effort is to figure out how to make those machines most efficient. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M1zNIVGrjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYz7g-qLjs You need several different kinds of metal and alloys as well > as wire and insulators. Yes you do. Which is easily achieved from found materials to replicate itself. > > >> For the most part it was luxury items such as good china before such > >> manufacturing could be established in the colonies. > >> > >> In return the colonies, depending on where they were, sent back things > >> like spices, precious metals, furs, and timber. > >> > > > > Agreed that this pattern would often continue with even well established > > colonies. The colony would mostly ship back raw materials, or goods > > easily manufactured locally, and the "old world" would send the colony > > finished "hard" goods. > > > >> There is nothing off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the > >> shipping cost in fuel to send it back to Earth. > > > > Depends. If the fuel is largely made locally (on the moon or Mars), the > > cost is local too. It may be more difficult to extract, but the supply > > (the entire planet or moon) versus demand (a fledgling colony) would be > > quite favorable. > > Cost is cost no matter where it comes from and again, there is nothing > off the Earth so valuable it would be worth the shipping cost. Cost is a measure of human time and attention in a free and open market. In rigged markets Cost is also artificially created (see artificial scarcity) to maintain control of large populations and extrac wealth from them. Most costs on Earth today derive from artificial scarcities which are blamed on nature or on human nature. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU07AdnZiSw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVgSF8CzSy4 > >> >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century > >> >>technology to survive. > >> >> > >> > > >> > Bullshit. Lots of colonies in the New World succeeded only by the > >> > skin of their teeth and lots of them failed and they all had the best > >> > technology available at the time. > >> > >> And that technology, except for a very few things like muskets, dates > >> back to at least the 10th Century. > > > > Most certainly, but even that early tech (e.g. metal knives, axes, and > > etc) would be quite difficult to manufacture at many early colonies > > which may lack readily available raw materials (e.g. iron ore right on > > the surface). > > Totally misses the point; the colonies could buy such things until > local production was establishe with things like timber, fur, and > spices. Self replicating machinery that is programmable can receive new instructions from innovators anywhere. This will be the nature of the trade. So, instead of Annie Mae going to town to get a bit of gingham and a new pattern for a dress, Anna Mars will receive the open source code for a new molecule to put into her new spacesuit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXKgG7tsII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRwnWMYpAi8 > > >> And, BTW, the indigious populations where most colonies where established > >> were surviving just fine on Stone Age technology long before the Europeans > >> appeared. > > > > "Just fine" is a stretch, depending on the technological level of the > > indigenous populations. (Primitive) technologies like farming and > > domestication and selective breeding of animals *greatly* increased the > > potential population density of even indigenous populations. > > Point missed yet again. The indigenous populations were able to live, > in some cases for thousands of years, without any resupply from Europe. It will be the same for Martian and Asteroid indigenous populations once they're established with self-replicating machine systems. > > -- > Jim Pennino
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 19:53 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <dmj8haFnrsnU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #55693 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >technology to survive. Try reading "Collapse" some time. Greenland, f'rex. A fair number of the Pacific islands. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 03:42 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <q5detc-5hd.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #55700 |
In sci.physics Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>technology to survive. > > Try reading "Collapse" some time. Greenland, f'rex. A fair number of > the Pacific islands. Greenland has been populated to varying degrees for over 4,000 years. All but the smallest Pacific islands were populated by people with Stone Age technology. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-05 23:06 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <dmjjq0Fqd26U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #55703 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >In sci.physics Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: >> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> >>>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>>technology to survive. >> >> Try reading "Collapse" some time. Greenland, f'rex. A fair number of >> the Pacific islands. > >Greenland has been populated to varying degrees for over 4,000 years. But the Viking colony failed. >All but the smallest Pacific islands were populated by people with Stone >Age technology. And a fair number of those colonies failed. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 18:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <dnvftc-moi.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #55704 |
In sci.physics Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: > jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: > >>In sci.physics Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: >>> jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>> >>>>No successful colony in history required anything beyond 10th Century >>>>technology to survive. >>> >>> Try reading "Collapse" some time. Greenland, f'rex. A fair number of >>> the Pacific islands. >> >>Greenland has been populated to varying degrees for over 4,000 years. > > But the Viking colony failed. Which one over the over 4,000 years of habitation? >>All but the smallest Pacific islands were populated by people with Stone >>Age technology. > > And a fair number of those colonies failed. No colony on Earth ever failed for lack of oxygen. Very few failed for lack of water. A fair number in less warm climates failed for lack of storing food for the winter. A few failed due to hostile indigenous people. All this is irrelevant. Attempting to compare any colony on the Earth to a colony off the Earth is starry eyed nonsense. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-06 12:34 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <jnnagbhj5de3chapk06jgrn50te0tlseu9@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #55709 |
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>
>No colony on Earth ever failed for lack of oxygen.
>
>Very few failed for lack of water.
>
>A fair number in less warm climates failed for lack of storing food for
>the winter.
>
>A few failed due to hostile indigenous people.
>
So now you care what you die from? We've found water both on the Moon
and on Mars. Oxygen isn't that difficult a problem, either, given an
oven to bake it out of rocks.
>
>All this is irrelevant.
>
>Attempting to compare any colony on the Earth to a colony off the Earth
>is starry eyed nonsense.
>
Colonies always need supply and support initially. Colonies off the
Earth will be no different.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 19:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ne6bpd$k90$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #55712 |
Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: > Colonies always need supply and support initially. Colonies off the > Earth will be no different. The main problem I see for space coloies is the complexity of the technology that is needed for survival, if spare parts cannot be imported. Take a simple O-ring used as a seal as as an example. Currently, this is made from an elastomer. If it needs to withstand oil, you will probably need NBR, a rubber made from 1-3-Butadiene and Acrylonitrile. So, you need 1-3-Butadiene. You can get that from a C4 stream coming from a steam cracker, which needs a hydrocarbon feedstock and is an enormously complex chemical plant, requiring catalysts and dozens of distillation columns. To separate it from the other C4 products, you usually use a sulfuric acid extraction. A steam cracker also produces dozens of other products, which you will have to dispose of (wasteful) or use (for what?) Hmm... maybe not that, dehydrogenation of n-Butane may be better. Dehydrogenation catalyst needed, typically Platinum. To get n-Butane, you need a steam cracker. Or maybe dehydrogenate Ethanol (a catalytic reaction, of course). OK, let's assume we have Butadiene. Next, we need acrylonitrile, which is made from Propylene and Ammonia. Propylene you get from that steam cracker (see above). Ammonia manufacture is a high-pressure process requiring nitrogen and hydrogen. Nitrogen on the Moon will be hard to get, on Mars it could be done. Because NBR is made by emulsion polymerization, you need emulsifiers (and water). Emulsifiers are basically soap, so please set up your soap factory somewhere. Now you've got the basic polymer, please also set up your plants for making all the additives which make it into a usable rubber. And set up the plants for making the catalysts that the different processes above require. You can't really use the latex produced in the polymerizaion, so please use your ready-made plant for precipitation and washing of the latex and drying (which could involve both a screw and a dryer). Think of a way to deal with the huge amount of waste water this will generate, and don't forget the Polyethylene film to wrap it in. Now you've got your rubber bale, but it is not yet an O-Ring. You need to compound and vulcanize it. Just grabbing a random recipe from the net, please also have ready your Zinc Oxide, Magnesium oxide, Stearic acid, Styrenated Phenol, Benzothiazol Disulfide (an accelerator), Tetramethyl Thiuram Disulfide (another accelerator), Carbon Black, Sulfur and Dioctyl phtalate. Also put some old motor oil in, and Add a few anti-aging and anti-oxydizing chemicals while you're at it. And this is just to make one simple everyday part that you could order for a few cents on Earth. So, is there a way around this? You can try to restrict yourself to the materials that you really, really need. This will mean that your solutions will be much worse than what you could get on Earth by just ordering the products you needed. I am not sure that this will be easy given the harshness of your environment, where your solutions should be good if you want to survive. So, a self-sufficient space colony would have to be quite large to support something like our technological base.
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 13:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <p4fdgbd35tfptkdmt71p337b7klalq3khc@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #55747 |
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>
>> Colonies always need supply and support initially. Colonies off the
>> Earth will be no different.
>
>The main problem I see for space coloies is the complexity of the
>technology that is needed for survival, if spare parts cannot be
>imported.
>
Baby steps, Tom. Baby steps.
>
>Take a simple O-ring used as a seal as as an example.
>
>Currently, this is made from an elastomer. If it needs to
>withstand oil, you will probably need NBR, a rubber made from
>1-3-Butadiene and Acrylonitrile.
>
>So, you need 1-3-Butadiene.
>
<snip petrochemical description>
Or instead of cracking down complex hydrocarbons you don't have, you
build up what you need out of the pieces. Please read up on in situ
resource utilization.
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-07 21:07 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ne6i6a$nua$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de> |
| In reply to | #55754 |
Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb: > Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > >>Take a simple O-ring used as a seal as as an example. >> >>Currently, this is made from an elastomer. If it needs to >>withstand oil, you will probably need NBR, a rubber made from >>1-3-Butadiene and Acrylonitrile. >> >>So, you need 1-3-Butadiene. ><snip petrochemical description> > > Or instead of cracking down complex hydrocarbons you don't have, you > build up what you need out of the pieces. Please read up on in situ > resource utilization. What in situ resources could I use on the Moon (or Mars) to make an O-ring capable of withstanding oil?
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| From | Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-04-08 00:03 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <urlegb1dhlhgu1e19cl6a17cvlro16bhr6@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #55759 |
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>Fred J McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> schrieb:
>> Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Take a simple O-ring used as a seal as as an example.
>>>
>>>Currently, this is made from an elastomer. If it needs to
>>>withstand oil, you will probably need NBR, a rubber made from
>>>1-3-Butadiene and Acrylonitrile.
>>>
>>>So, you need 1-3-Butadiene.
>
>><snip petrochemical description>
>>
>> Or instead of cracking down complex hydrocarbons you don't have, you
>> build up what you need out of the pieces. Please read up on in situ
>> resource utilization.
>
>What in situ resources could I use on the Moon (or Mars) to make an
>O-ring capable of withstanding oil?
>
Chemistry is chemistry. Please go follow the link on in situ organic
chemicals I gave the Chimp.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
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