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About the resupply missions in "The Martian".

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  About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2015-11-03 09:56 -0500
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-03 13:08 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-04 05:51 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-04 04:56 -0800
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 06:35 -0700
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 06:34 -0700
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-03 22:19 -0500
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 22:45 -0800
        "wget" will download it. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-11-04 05:26 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-04 00:19 -0700
        Nitro Pro and SumatraPDF.  Not Adobe. Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> - 2015-11-04 05:09 -0800
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> - 2015-11-04 17:13 +0000
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-04 00:03 -0700
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2015-11-05 09:18 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-05 22:39 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-05 19:44 -0800
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-06 06:25 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-06 06:24 -0500
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-06 07:18 -0500
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-04 05:48 -0500
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Peter Fairbrother <peter@tsto.co.uk> - 2015-11-07 18:59 +0000
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Peter Fairbrother <peter@tsto.co.uk> - 2015-11-08 01:18 +0000
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2015-11-07 23:43 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Peter Fairbrother <peter@tsto.co.uk> - 2015-11-08 23:18 +0000
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2015-11-07 20:58 -0700
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-08 12:34 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-08 16:13 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-09 04:55 -0800
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-10 06:16 -0500
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-10 14:02 -0500
              Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-11 08:07 -0500
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-08 17:38 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-09 05:04 -0800
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 20:08 -0700
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-10 06:21 -0500
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-08 19:03 -0700
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-08 23:50 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-09 00:11 -0700
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:31 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-10 18:17 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-11 00:24 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 05:38 -0700
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-11 13:55 -0500
              Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 12:13 -0700
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:51 -0700
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:36 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-10 18:18 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-11 00:27 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-11 04:12 -0800
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 05:54 -0700
              Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-12 06:15 -0500
                Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 06:50 -0700
                  Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-12 15:05 -0500
                    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-13 07:50 -0500
                      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-15 23:31 -0500
                    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2015-11-13 16:26 -0500
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:52 -0700
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-11 20:03 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 21:33 -0700
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-13 07:41 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 13:45 -0700
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-13 16:13 -0500
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-12 05:11 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 06:54 -0700
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-13 07:46 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-14 01:59 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-15 13:05 -0500
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-15 23:28 -0500
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-14 08:18 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 15:55 -0700
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-14 20:46 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 23:56 -0700
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-15 05:05 -0800
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-15 13:24 -0500
              Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-15 15:04 -0500
                Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-15 16:06 -0500
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 18:49 -0700
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-15 13:21 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-15 23:34 -0500
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-15 13:11 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-15 10:52 -0800
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-15 16:00 -0500
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-15 16:12 -0800
              Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 19:25 -0700
              Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-15 21:46 -0500
            Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-15 20:24 -0500
              Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-15 21:52 -0500
                Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-15 20:07 -0800
                  Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 01:38 -0700
              Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-15 23:42 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 19:12 -0700
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-15 17:44 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 19:29 -0700
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-15 23:48 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-16 02:05 -0500
    Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> - 2015-11-16 14:06 -0800
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". "Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> - 2015-11-16 21:47 -0500
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-17 00:20 -0500
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-17 06:03 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-17 15:43 -0500
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-16 22:56 -0700
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-11-17 01:17 -0500
          Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 06:08 -0700
        Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-17 06:16 -0500
      Re: About the resupply missions in "The Martian". Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2015-11-17 05:57 -0500

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#54679 — About the resupply missions in "The Martian".

Two instances were discussed in the film where unmanned cargo ships were 
mentioned to send up supplies to extend the time Whatney or the crew of the 
Hermes could survive.

This brought back painful memories while watching the movie. It's such an 
obvious answer. In the space shuttle Columbia disaster NASA rejected a 
possible rescue because Atlantis could not be readied in time within the 16 
days the Columbia's supplies would run out.

So since "nothing could be done anyway" there was no need to do accurate 
imaging to even find out if the wing damage was survivable.

Note in the movie they had to use China to do the resupply mission to the 
Hermes. If NASA had ordered the Columbia imaging, finding the damage 
unsurvivable, all the space-faring nations in the world, which are at least 
five, would have been working hard to send up a cargo mission to meet up 
with Columbia within the 16 day time frame.

But they never were even given a chance to try.

BTW, since this is in regards to "The Martian", for you chemistry heads out 
there, are there some foods, liquids, or common materials that might be on 
the shuttles that could have filtered out the CO2 in air other than the 
lithium canisters? For instance perhaps the solubility of CO2 in water is 
different than in O2 and there could have been a way to separate out the CO2 
from the air that way.


  Bob Clark

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A mission to Europa could result in the most important scientific advance in 
human history, dwarfing even the Apollo missions,
to discover life on another world. By commercial space, launch and 
spacecraft costs can be slashed by a factor of 10 or more.
This would be a cost that could be financed privately. And at costs this low 
it can even be done at a profit:

Low cost Europa lander missions.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2015/02/low-cost-europa-lander-missions.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#54680

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 9:56:06 AM UTC-5, Robert Clark wrote:
> Two instances were discussed in the film where unmanned cargo ships were 
> mentioned to send up supplies to extend the time Whatney or the crew of the 
> Hermes could survive.
> 
> This brought back painful memories while watching the movie. It's such an 
> obvious answer. In the space shuttle Columbia disaster NASA rejected a 
> possible rescue because Atlantis could not be readied in time within the 16 
> days the Columbia's supplies would run out.
> 
> So since "nothing could be done anyway" there was no need to do accurate 
> imaging to even find out if the wing damage was survivable.
> 
> Note in the movie they had to use China to do the resupply mission to the 
> Hermes. If NASA had ordered the Columbia imaging, finding the damage 
> unsurvivable, all the space-faring nations in the world, which are at least 
> five, would have been working hard to send up a cargo mission to meet up 
> with Columbia within the 16 day time frame.
> 
> But they never were even given a chance to try.
> 
> BTW, since this is in regards to "The Martian", for you chemistry heads out 
> there, are there some foods, liquids, or common materials that might be on 
> the shuttles that could have filtered out the CO2 in air other than the 
> lithium canisters? For instance perhaps the solubility of CO2 in water is 
> different than in O2 and there could have been a way to separate out the CO2 
> from the air that way.
> 
> 
>   Bob Clark

yeah the columbia disaster, well go back to google groups history, i had posted about a shuttle stuck at ISS, and got laughed at.pad rats emailedme that there was no problem. i was in florida the day columbia died. it haunts me to this day

nasa failed miserably at something that could of been survivable.

emergency supplies to orbit should be ready to go at any time.

like for a ISS accident.

have some launches kept ready for launch in underground silos. the military did this for ICBMs.. the capability is well understood.

today right now a ISS debris impact could disable the soyuz return vehicles.

having the ability to launch emergency supplies to orbit could save a crew, and perhaps keep iSS under control. since it would disengrate in a uncontrolled re entry and litter its ground path with lots of debris.

putting people on the ground at risk

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#54687

In article <9dd6e024-ef72-4354-9ba0-6e52e3ca4b24@googlegroups.com>, 
hallerb@aol.com says...
> 
> yeah the columbia disaster, well go back to google groups history, i had posted about a shuttle stuck at ISS, and got laughed at.pad rats emailedme that there was no problem. i was in florida the day columbia died. it haunts me to this day

Fuck you Bob!  You used to scream the sky is falling about fucking 
*everything*.  Just because a stopped clock is right twice a day doesn't 
make it fucking useful.  And yes, I'm in a bad mood.  Better stay the 
fuck away from me for a couple days. 

Jeff
-- 
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#54688

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 5:51:37 AM UTC-5, Jeff Findley wrote:
> In article <9dd6e024-ef72-4354-9ba0-6e52e3ca4b24@googlegroups.com>, 
> hallerb@aol.com says...
> > 
> > yeah the columbia disaster, well go back to google groups history, i had posted about a shuttle stuck at ISS, and got laughed at.pad rats emailedme that there was no problem. i was in florida the day columbia died. it haunts me to this day
> 
> Fuck you Bob!  You used to scream the sky is falling about fucking 
> *everything*.  Just because a stopped clock is right twice a day doesn't 
> make it fucking useful.  And yes, I'm in a bad mood.  Better stay the 
> fuck away from me for a couple days. 
> 
> Jeff

it is what it is:(

the crew died because nasa failed to plan for a bad day. worse nasa ignored all the flying catches, te rate was way up, a big sign of management pushing schedule over safety.

I took this loss very hard, i was waiting in florida for the sonic boom that never came. i was witing outside our hotel room.

when my wife said they are late i went back indoors, and said .........

they are all dead, they cant be late,  andmanagement is too blame.

nasa needs a computer watching for flying catches, if the ate goes up they need to stand doown and find out why.

before another crew dies.

obviously you are bothered by this sad event.


oh and I was in florida attending the memorial service for apollo one, another example of schedule before safety

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#54692

bob haller <hallerb@aol.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 5:51:37 AM UTC-5, Jeff Findley wrote:
>> In article <9dd6e024-ef72-4354-9ba0-6e52e3ca4b24@googlegroups.com>, 
>> hallerb@aol.com says...
>> > 
>> > yeah the columbia disaster, well go back to google groups history, i had posted about a shuttle stuck at ISS, and got laughed at.pad rats emailedme that there was no problem. i was in florida the day columbia died. it haunts me to this day
>> 
>> Fuck you Bob!  You used to scream the sky is falling about fucking 
>> *everything*.  Just because a stopped clock is right twice a day doesn't 
>> make it fucking useful.  And yes, I'm in a bad mood.  Better stay the 
>> fuck away from me for a couple days. 
>> 
>> Jeff
>
>it is what it is:(
>

Yes, it is, and as usual your 'convenient' memories are simply full of
shit.  That's what it is.


-- 
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
 territory."
                                      --G. Behn

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#54691

Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> wrote:

>In article <9dd6e024-ef72-4354-9ba0-6e52e3ca4b24@googlegroups.com>, 
>hallerb@aol.com says...
>> 
>> yeah the columbia disaster, well go back to google groups history, i had posted about a shuttle stuck at ISS, and got laughed at.pad rats emailedme that there was no problem. i was in florida the day columbia died. it haunts me to this day
>
>Fuck you Bob!  You used to scream the sky is falling about fucking 
>*everything*.  Just because a stopped clock is right twice a day doesn't 
>make it fucking useful.  And yes, I'm in a bad mood.  Better stay the 
>fuck away from me for a couple days. 
>

I think this has come up before and it's just another case of Bob
having a 'convenient' memory about what he was actually on about at
the time.  So the clock only THOUGHT it was right once.

-- 
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
 territory."
                                      --G. Behn

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#54682

"Robert Clark"  wrote in message news:n1ahpv$2k5$2@dont-email.me...
>
>Two instances were discussed in the film where unmanned cargo ships were 
>mentioned to send up supplies to extend the time Whatney or the crew of the 
>Hermes could survive.
>
>This brought back painful memories while watching the movie. It's such an 
>obvious answer. In the space shuttle Columbia disaster NASA rejected a 
>possible rescue because Atlantis could not be readied in time within the 16 
>days the Columbia's supplies would run out.
>
>So since "nothing could be done anyway" there was no need to do accurate 
>imaging to even find out if the wing damage was survivable.
>
>Note in the movie they had to use China to do the resupply mission to the 
>Hermes. If NASA had ordered the Columbia imaging, finding the damage 
>unsurvivable, all the space-faring nations in the world, which are at least 
>five, would have been working hard to send up a cargo mission to meet up 
>with Columbia within the 16 day time frame.
>
>But they never were even given a chance to try.
>
>BTW, since this is in regards to "The Martian", for you chemistry heads out 
>there, are there some foods, liquids, or common materials that might be on 
>the shuttles that could have filtered out the CO2 in air other than the 
>lithium canisters? For instance perhaps the solubility of CO2 in water is 
>different than in O2 and there could have been a way to separate out the 
>CO2 from the air that way.
>

BTW, if you haven't read this:

http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/02/the-audacious-rescue-plan-that-might-have-saved-space-shuttle-columbia/

and

http://www.nasa.gov/columbia/caib/PDFS/VOL2/D13.PDF (though this is coming 
up corrupted for me right now, but may be my browser.)


>
>  Bob Clark
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>A mission to Europa could result in the most important scientific advance 
>in human history, dwarfing even the Apollo missions,
>to discover life on another world. By commercial space, launch and 
>spacecraft costs can be slashed by a factor of 10 or more.
>This would be a cost that could be financed privately. And at costs this 
>low it can even be done at a profit:
>
>Low cost Europa lander missions.
>http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2015/02/low-cost-europa-lander-missions.html
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Greg D. Moore                   http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net 

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#54683

With a quizzical look, Greg (Strider) Moore observed:

[...]

> and
>
> http://www.nasa.gov/columbia/caib/PDFS/VOL2/D13.PDF (though this is coming up 
> corrupted for me right now, but may be my browser.)
>

Is it missing a content-type header?

/dps

-- 
Ieri, oggi, domani

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#54690 — "wget" will download it.

Re: www.NASA.GOV/columbia/caib/PDFS/VOL2/D13.PDF

@Snidely asked:
> Is it missing a content-type header?

Sadly, the (AmazonS3) server says it's:
  "Content-Type: text/html".

My software ( Jeff-Relf.Me/X.ZIP ) downloads it fine,
because it ignores the "Content-Type: text/html" line.

"wget" will download it.

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#54685

"Greg \(Strider\) Moore" <mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com> wrote:

>http://www.nasa.gov/columbia/caib/PDFS/VOL2/D13.PDF (though this is coming 
>up corrupted for me right now, but may be my browser.)

garbled for me, too, in  Chrome.

Feeding the URL directly into Adobe Reader does work, though.  But I
have to fight my way through tutorials and contracts and cloud sigh-up
tons of crap just to get into Reader.  I guess it auto-updated when I
wasn't watching and the company wants me to use as more than just a
document "Reader".  C'mon, Adobe.

Anyhow, Chrome chokes on it but Adobe Reader DC is fine with it.

What is DC?  The last version I noticed was 10 or 11 or some such.
How did we get to version 600?
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#54689 — Nitro Pro and SumatraPDF. Not Adobe.

Re: www.NASA.GOV/columbia/caib/PDFS/VOL2/D13.PDF

For me, using my software, it downloads fine.
To view it, I use SumatraPDF, not Adobe.
It looks good.  To edit it, I use Nitro Pro.

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#54693

In sci.space.policy Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote:
> Anyhow, Chrome chokes on it but Adobe Reader DC is fine with it.

> What is DC?  The last version I noticed was 10 or 11 or some such.
> How did we get to version 600?

I think it stands for "Data Cloud" - perhaps Adobe have "clouded"
Reader (so to speak).

rick jones
-- 
The computing industry isn't as much a game of "Follow The Leader" as
it is one of "Ring Around the Rosy" or perhaps "Duck Duck Goose." 
                                                    - Rick Jones
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

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#54684

"Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> wrote:


>BTW, since this is in regards to "The Martian", for you chemistry heads out 
>there, are there some foods, liquids, or common materials that might be on 
>the shuttles that could have filtered out the CO2 in air other than the 
>lithium canisters? For instance perhaps the solubility of CO2 in water is 
>different than in O2 and there could have been a way to separate out the CO2 
>from the air that way.

There's lots of cold available, and low pressure that should make
refrigeration easy.  I'm not sure how "industrial" you have to get to
freeze CO2 out of the air, but it should be workable.  Fire
extinguishers generate CO2 snow fairly cheaply.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

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#54694

I like that idea. According to Wikipedia the solidification point for CO2 is 
−78.5 °C at 1 atm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

I say solidification point because at 1 atm it goes directly to a solid. 
Actually this is good for our purposes because it will be denser and easier 
to separate out from the gases in air.

The liquidification points for oxygen and nitrogen at 1 atm are −182.962 °C 
and  −195.795 °C respectively:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen


  So you would place the air in a canister and put it out in the payload bay 
and angle the payload bay away from the Sun. You would have a thermometer 
inside and watch until the temperature dropped to below −78.5 °C and pull 
the canister back in before it dropped down below the oxygen and nitrogen 
liquidification points.

You would need to separate out the solid CO2. You could rotate the canister 
to bring the solid CO2 to the outer parts of the canister and siphon the air 
off from the center of the canister. Or you could use a fine grid over the 
opening so only the air could pass through the opening.

A big question here though is when you open the air lock to put something 
out into the vacuum of the payload bay, would this vent air out to vacuum? 
Air would be a precious commodity and I don't know if you would want to lose 
any of it. Perhaps like in a scene from "The Martian" you could cover the 
outside opening of the air lock with a tarp so that the air couldn't escape 
but the thin tarp would allow the temperature to drop.

This problem could be eliminated of course if the shuttle did have onboard 
refrigeration equipment that could reach cryogenic temperatures.

    Bob Clark

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A mission to Europa could result in the most important scientific advance in 
human history, dwarfing even the Apollo missions,
to discover life on another world. By commercial space, launch and 
spacecraft costs can be slashed by a factor of 10 or more.
This would be a cost that could be financed privately. And at costs this low 
it can even be done at a profit:

Low cost Europa lander missions.
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2015/02/low-cost-europa-lander-missions.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Greg Goss"  wrote in message news:d9toutF6trjU1@mid.individual.net...

"Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> wrote:


>BTW, since this is in regards to "The Martian", for you chemistry heads out
>there, are there some foods, liquids, or common materials that might be on
>the shuttles that could have filtered out the CO2 in air other than the
>lithium canisters? For instance perhaps the solubility of CO2 in water is
>different than in O2 and there could have been a way to separate out the 
>CO2
>from the air that way.

There's lots of cold available, and low pressure that should make
refrigeration easy.  I'm not sure how "industrial" you have to get to
freeze CO2 out of the air, but it should be workable.  Fire
extinguishers generate CO2 snow fairly cheaply.
-- 
We are geeks.  Resistance is voltage over current.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus 

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#54697

"Robert Clark"  wrote in message news:n1fobg$5q0$2@dont-email.me...
>
>A big question here though is when you open the air lock to put something 
>out into the vacuum of the payload bay, would this vent air out to vacuum?

That is my understanding. It's easier than trying to recapture it.


>Air would be a precious commodity and I don't know if you would want to 
>lose any of it. Perhaps like in a scene from "The Martian" you could cover 
>the outside opening of the air lock with a tarp so that the air couldn't 
>escape but the thin tarp would allow the temperature to drop.
>
>This problem could be eliminated of course if the shuttle did have onboard 
>refrigeration equipment that could reach cryogenic temperatures.
>
>    Bob Clark
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>A mission to Europa could result in the most important scientific advance 
>in human history, dwarfing even the Apollo missions,
>to discover life on another world. By commercial space, launch and 
>spacecraft costs can be slashed by a factor of 10 or more.
>This would be a cost that could be financed privately. And at costs this 
>low it can even be done at a profit:
>
>Low cost Europa lander missions.
>http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2015/02/low-cost-europa-lander-missions.html
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Greg Goss"  wrote in message news:d9toutF6trjU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>"Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>BTW, since this is in regards to "The Martian", for you chemistry heads 
>>out
>>there, are there some foods, liquids, or common materials that might be on
>>the shuttles that could have filtered out the CO2 in air other than the
>>lithium canisters? For instance perhaps the solubility of CO2 in water is
>>different than in O2 and there could have been a way to separate out the 
>>CO2
>>from the air that way.
>
>There's lots of cold available, and low pressure that should make
>refrigeration easy.  I'm not sure how "industrial" you have to get to
>freeze CO2 out of the air, but it should be workable.  Fire
>extinguishers generate CO2 snow fairly cheaply.

-- 
Greg D. Moore                   http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net 

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#54698

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 10:39:15 PM UTC-5, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote:
> "Robert Clark"  wrote in message news:n1fobg$5q0$2@dont-email.me...
> >
> >A big question here though is when you open the air lock to put something 
> >out into the vacuum of the payload bay, would this vent air out to vacuum?
> 
> That is my understanding. It's easier than trying to recapture it.
> 
> 
> >Air would be a precious commodity and I don't know if you would want to 
> >lose any of it. Perhaps like in a scene from "The Martian" you could cover 
> >the outside opening of the air lock with a tarp so that the air couldn't 
> >escape but the thin tarp would allow the temperature to drop.
> >
> >This problem could be eliminated of course if the shuttle did have onboard 
> >refrigeration equipment that could reach cryogenic temperatures.
> >
> >    Bob Clark
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >A mission to Europa could result in the most important scientific advance 
> >in human history, dwarfing even the Apollo missions,
> >to discover life on another world. By commercial space, launch and 
> >spacecraft costs can be slashed by a factor of 10 or more.
> >This would be a cost that could be financed privately. And at costs this 
> >low it can even be done at a profit:
> >
> >Low cost Europa lander missions.
> >http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2015/02/low-cost-europa-lander-missions.html
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >"Greg Goss"  wrote in message news:d9toutF6trjU1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> >"Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>BTW, since this is in regards to "The Martian", for you chemistry heads 
> >>out
> >>there, are there some foods, liquids, or common materials that might be on
> >>the shuttles that could have filtered out the CO2 in air other than the
> >>lithium canisters? For instance perhaps the solubility of CO2 in water is
> >>different than in O2 and there could have been a way to separate out the 
> >>CO2
> >>from the air that way.
> >
> >There's lots of cold available, and low pressure that should make
> >refrigeration easy.  I'm not sure how "industrial" you have to get to
> >freeze CO2 out of the air, but it should be workable.  Fire
> >extinguishers generate CO2 snow fairly cheaply.
> 
> -- 
> Greg D. Moore                   http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
> CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

well the other way is to vacuumn the air out before opening the hatch.

but that requires valves, a vacuum pump and energy to run it.

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#54701

In article <8698ef68-a262-408c-af48-295c1e5cea7e@googlegroups.com>, 
hallerb@aol.com says...
> well the other way is to vacuumn the air out before opening the hatch.
> 
> but that requires valves, a vacuum pump and energy to run it.
> 

Which is *exactly* what is done with the Quest airlock on ISS.  Most of 
the air from an EVA "depress" is actually recovered by the "depress 
pumps".  Only the last little bit has to be vented overboard.  

Jeff
-- 
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer 

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#54700

In article <dtGdnc_O_Id_vaHLnZ2dnUU7-R-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, 
mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com says...
> 
> "Robert Clark"  wrote in message news:n1fobg$5q0$2@dont-email.me...
> >
> >A big question here though is when you open the air lock to put something 
> >out into the vacuum of the payload bay, would this vent air out to vacuum?
> 
> That is my understanding. It's easier than trying to recapture it.

Actually on ISS the Quest airlock uses "depress pumps" to recapture some 
of the air.  So, only the last little bit is vented to vaccuum.  

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/structure/elements/quest.html
#.VjyNjH6rR9M

Jeff
-- 
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer 

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#54702

In article <MPG.30a657f51f68ff619898f3@news.eternal-september.org>, 
jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com says...
> 
> In article <dtGdnc_O_Id_vaHLnZ2dnUU7-R-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>, 
> mooregr@deletethisgreenms.com says...
> > 
> > "Robert Clark"  wrote in message news:n1fobg$5q0$2@dont-email.me...
> > >
> > >A big question here though is when you open the air lock to put something 
> > >out into the vacuum of the payload bay, would this vent air out to vacuum?
> > 
> > That is my understanding. It's easier than trying to recapture it.
> 
> Actually on ISS the Quest airlock uses "depress pumps" to recapture some 
> of the air.  So, only the last little bit is vented to vaccuum.  
> 
> https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/structure/elements/quest.html
> #.VjyNjH6rR9M

But yea, on the shuttle, I don't believe they did this.  The vehicle was 
designed for short duration missions, so recovering the air lost from 
using the airlock was not a concern when it was designed.

That and the shuttle was horribly "leaky".  Between the leak rate and 
the airlock, that's why the shuttle needed more N2 tanks than one would 
think (since N2 in the air is not consumed by the crew).  

The other problem with a space shuttle trying to stay alive longer than 
the planned mission duration was H2 and O2 for the fuel cells.  Again, 
the shuttle was designed for short duration missions, and when the H2 
and O2 for the fuel cells ran out, you'd be hosed.  

But, on Columbia's fateful mission, it was equipped with the EDO tank 
kit to supply the fuel cells.  Which brings up another point, I believe 
the EDO orbiters were already equipped with a regenerative CO2 removal 
system which used regenerable solid amines.  So, the problem of CO2 
removal wasn't that big of an issue for Columbia, as long as the CO2 
removal system had power to operate.

Jeff
-- 
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer 

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#54686

In article <n1ahpv$2k5$2@dont-email.me>, 
rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com says...
> 
> If NASA had ordered the Columbia imaging, finding the damage 
> unsurvivable, all the space-faring nations in the world, which are at least 
> five, would have been working hard to send up a cargo mission to meet up 
> with Columbia within the 16 day time frame.
> 
> But they never were even given a chance to try.
> 
> BTW, since this is in regards to "The Martian", for you chemistry heads out 
> there, are there some foods, liquids, or common materials that might be on 
> the shuttles that could have filtered out the CO2 in air other than the 
> lithium canisters? For instance perhaps the solubility of CO2 in water is 
> different than in O2 and there could have been a way to separate out the CO2 
> from the air that way.

Extremely doubtful anything on board would absorb enough CO2.  LiOH 
canisters are chemically active.  Trying to substitute with something 
soluble that they would have had on board would have been nearly 
impossible.

Other scenarios (some more plausible than others):

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3077581/ns/technology_and_science-
space/t/could-shuttle-crew-have-been-saved/

Jeff
-- 
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer 

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