Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent.

From	jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Newsgroups	sci.physics, sci.space.policy, sci.electronics.design, rec.arts.sf.science
Subject	Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent.
Date	2016-11-06 19:54 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<nce4fd-39d.ln1@mail.specsol.com> (permalink)
References	<nvab5b$is1$1@dont-email.me> <XnsA6B3928AD49C6taustingmail@69.16.179.42> <nvfhtn$stq$1@dont-email.me> <7c9sed-svf.ln1@mail.specsol.com> <nvnrob$423$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote:
> In sci.physics Robert Clark <rgregoryclark@gmspambloackail.com> wrote:
>>> As mentioned previously, battery-powered airplanes and helicopters do 
>>> exist.
>>
>>As research toys; there are not as yet any electric airplanes or 
>>helicopters
>>that could be called practical in any sense of the word.
>>
>>> The ionic propulsion will likewise be battery-powered but at a more
>>> efficient power usage, if the ionizing wires are at the nanoscale.
>>>
>>> The greater efficiency for ionic propulsion with nanoscale wires can be
>>> confirmed with any wires at the nanoscale, not just carbon nanotubes. For
>>> example, the intense fields created by nanoscale wires in microcircuitry
>>> boards is well-known to those in the field. So anyone who has familiarity
>>> working with microcircuitry boards with nanoscale wiring could confirm 
>>> this.
>>
>>An intense field does not automatically means motive power.
>>
>>Are you saying microcircuitry boards have to be lashed down to keep
>>them from flying away?
>>
>>> And that's all that's required. That in itself would be the game changer.
>>> Even if it's only done on a model the size of a model airplane, once it's
>>> shown that nanoscale wiring for ionic propulsion produced better
>>> power-to-thrust ratio than helicopters, that would be sufficient for this 
>>> to
>>> supplant helicopters as a hovering transport method.
>>
>>Yeah, sure.
>>
>>You do know the tips of such ion generators burn away and the smaller the
>>tip the faster they burn?
>>
>>>  Bob Clark
>>
>>
> 
> In regards to the mode of operation, the lifters don't operate via electron 
> emission. The air molecule ion production is due to the intense electric 
> fields around the high voltage wires, a known phenomenon among electrical 
> engineers called corona discharge or electrical breakdown. The wires are 
> usually horizontal for most lifters and the corona field is generated around 
> the length of the horizontal wires, not at the tips of the wires. There 
> versions of the lifters that use the ionization around the end tips or 
> wires, but this is also due to the intense field strength there, not 
> electron emission.

Also the end tips of sewing needles as they have a tiny tip and being
steel more resistant to end erosion and are cheap.

> The corona in small diameter wires in electronic devices is limited by the 
> coatings placed on the wires. In the lifters, the wires used are uncoated.

If you have corona you have electron emmision by definition and with
electron emmision you get tip erosion.

> A recent paper showed for nanowires at diameters in the range of 100 nm, the 
> corona discharge in air arises at voltages of only about 100 V/m. This is 
> compared to the 3,000,000 V/m normally found in air for macroscale wires:

Hardly a surprise.

Why do you think Van de Graaff generators are topped by a big, round,
smooth ball?

Did you ever do the high school experiment where you scotch tape a 
thumbtack to a Van de Graaff generator?

> Nanoscale Res Lett. 2016; 11: 90.
> Published online 2016 Feb 16. doi:  10.1186/s11671-015-1217-4
> ZnO Nanowire-Based Corona Discharge Devices Operated Under Hundreds of 
> Volts.
> Wenming Yang, Rong Zhu,corresponding author and Xianli Zong
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4754239/   [free full text]
> 
> This doesnt show you can get thrust at these lower voltages, but the 
> results on the air ionization are in accordance to what the mathematics 
> predicts. And the air ionization is what generates the thrust.
> New ideas should be subjected to critical review. But that critical review 
> should include testing to see if they actually work.
> 
> Bob Clark

Again, tip erosion, RFI, and total power required.


-- 
Jim Pennino

Thread

Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-01 11:09 -0400
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-11-01 08:51 -0700
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2016-11-01 14:27 -0400
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. krw <krw@nowhere.com> - 2016-11-01 22:01 -0400
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-03 09:16 -0400
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-11-03 08:33 -0700
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-04 07:29 -0400
          Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-04 07:35 -0400
            Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-04 12:20 -0700
              Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-06 12:23 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-11-06 16:28 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 19:13 -0700
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-01 18:19 +0000
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-11-01 14:13 -0700
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-02 00:00 +0000
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. krw <krw@nowhere.com> - 2016-11-01 22:05 -0400
          Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-02 02:54 +0000
            Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. krw <krw@nowhere.com> - 2016-11-02 20:20 -0400
              Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-03 02:02 +0000
              Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2016-11-03 07:41 -0400
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Yuri Kreaton <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2016-11-01 19:10 -0500
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. krw <krw@nowhere.com> - 2016-11-01 22:06 -0400
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2016-11-01 19:12 -0700
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-02 02:57 +0000
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-11-01 14:24 -0700
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-03 10:35 -0400
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-03 17:39 +0000
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-06 13:12 -0500
          Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-06 19:54 +0000
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-11-03 11:37 -0700
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Yuri Kreaton <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2016-11-01 19:08 -0500
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> - 2016-11-02 00:33 -0800
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2016-11-03 01:05 -0700
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-03 17:43 +0000
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-04 15:38 -0400
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Bill Martin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2016-11-02 11:47 -0700
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-03 09:28 -0400
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-03 09:48 -0400
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2016-11-03 08:41 -0700
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Yuri Kreaton <invlaid@invalid.com> - 2016-11-03 12:22 -0500
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-04 16:09 -0400
          Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-04 21:09 +0000
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-07 07:29 -0500
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-07 18:37 +0000
          Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2016-11-07 15:31 -0500
            Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-07 21:46 +0000
              Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2016-11-07 18:18 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-08 03:39 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2016-11-07 20:51 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-08 07:13 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. krw <krw@nowhere.com> - 2016-11-08 12:28 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. mike <ham789@netzero.net> - 2016-11-08 13:33 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-08 22:05 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. krw <krw@somewhere.com> - 2016-11-08 18:45 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-09 00:13 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. krw <krw@somewhere.com> - 2016-11-08 19:46 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-09 01:05 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hpe.com> - 2016-11-09 18:26 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-09 20:03 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 19:21 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 08:40 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 02:55 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-11-14 06:02 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 11:31 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 05:54 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 13:47 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 12:35 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-15 00:04 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-11-14 13:37 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 18:52 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-11-14 14:56 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 13:17 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 18:57 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 11:27 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 05:52 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 13:56 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 12:47 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-14 23:58 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-14 22:07 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Alain Fournier <alain245@videotron.ca> - 2016-11-15 20:34 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 21:42 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2016-11-16 09:05 +0000
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-16 02:13 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. krw <krw@somewhere.com> - 2016-11-16 20:32 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 11:52 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-15 21:32 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-19 17:25 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-20 08:22 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 15:51 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 18:55 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-22 14:13 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 00:42 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 18:07 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-11-24 00:58 -0700
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-24 13:33 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-23 18:08 -0800
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-11-24 07:36 -0500
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-03 17:49 +0000
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-21 15:50 -0800
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-03 10:00 -0400
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-03 17:51 +0000
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-08 11:03 -0500
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-11-08 17:37 +0000
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-13 10:53 -0500
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-13 12:09 -0500
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. "Robert Clark" <rgregoryclark@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> - 2016-11-13 20:34 -0500
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-11-13 14:18 -0800
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 13:47 -0800
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-04 20:41 -0800
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-04 22:51 -0800
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-12-05 06:11 -0500
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 16:07 -0800
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 00:26 -0700
          Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 01:32 -0800
          Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 01:33 -0800
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-05 16:30 -0800
        Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Jeff Findley <jfindley@cinci.nospam.rr.com> - 2016-12-06 09:15 -0500
          Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. David Spain <nospam@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-06 12:45 -0500
            Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 17:31 -0700
              Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. David Spain <nospam@127.0.0.1> - 2016-12-07 11:27 -0500
                Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 16:04 -0800
            Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 16:03 -0800
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-06 01:37 -0800
  Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 17:31 -0800
    Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-08 18:47 -0800
      Re: Ion drive for aircraft imminent. William Mook <mokmedical@gmail.com> - 2016-12-09 15:24 -0800

csiph-web