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Groups > sci.physics > #546323 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Dan Elton <delton17@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-01-18 14:15 -0800 |
| Last post | 2016-01-19 08:24 -0600 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 22 — 7 participants |
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Tesla's Folly Dan Elton <delton17@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 14:15 -0800
Re: Tesla's Folly Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-18 16:33 -0600
Re: Tesla's Folly Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-01-18 23:57 +0100
Re: Tesla's Folly benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 19:54 -0500
Re: Tesla's Folly Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-01-19 10:59 +0100
Re: Tesla's Folly Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-18 19:31 -0600
Re: Tesla's Folly jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-18 23:27 +0000
Re: Tesla's Folly benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 20:07 -0500
Re: Tesla's Folly jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-01-19 01:30 +0000
Re: Tesla's Folly benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 21:08 -0500
Re: Tesla's Folly Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-18 20:12 -0600
Re: Tesla's Folly benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 23:37 -0500
Re: Tesla's Folly Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-19 08:24 -0600
Re: Tesla's Folly James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 16:00 -0800
Re: Tesla's Folly benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 19:47 -0500
Re: Tesla's Folly Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-18 19:35 -0600
Tesla's Folly HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 16:26 -0800
Re: Tesla's Folly benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 21:05 -0500
Re: Tesla's Folly Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-18 20:14 -0600
Re: Tesla's Folly benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 19:37 -0500
Re: Tesla's Folly Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-18 20:17 -0600
Re: Tesla's Folly Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-01-19 08:24 -0600
Page 1 of 2 [1] 2 Next page →
| From | Dan Elton <delton17@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 14:15 -0800 |
| Subject | Tesla's Folly |
| Message-ID | <4f7b5876-ec7d-4890-8912-8c9ece52f9a0@googlegroups.com> |
Tesla was a great inventor, but during the second half of his life, Tesla had a mental breakdown because his Wardenclyff project didn't work the way he thought it would.... The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. He has fundamentally wrong ideas about how electromagnetic waves propagate through the Earth. He conducted his Colorado Springs experiments in a very unscientific manner and fooled himself with confirmation bias into thinking he could transmit large amounts of electrical power through the Earth. He never had much patience for mathematical theory, and refused to be believe that longitudinal EM waves are impossible, even though physicists had proven that fact with Maxwell's equations. J.P. Morgan was smart not to continue funding the Wardenclyff project. Morgan was interested in wireless communication across the Atlantic, and Marconi had already demonstrated that .. why bother investing more into Tesla's failed endevour?. I have written a detailed post about this: http://www.danielcelton.com/2015/02/22/teslas-folly-why-wardenclyff-didnt-work/ The best biography is by Bernard Carson, because he uses real historical sources and doesn't include unsubstantiated nonsense, like the idea that Tesla lit lights 25 miles away in Colorado Springs.
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| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 16:33 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n7jp9n$1of4$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #546323 |
On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote: > Tesla was a great inventor, > > The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. bullshit, he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying all sorts of things. hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is pure Gold. why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that should have bee flat like a pizza ?
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| From | Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 23:57 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <qdqq9bp5lr8e4q43pt211bvpbjcpvi8n0e@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #546329 |
On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:33:36 -0600, Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote: >On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote: >> Tesla was a great inventor, >> >> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. > >bullshit, > >he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying >all sorts of things. > >hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is >pure Gold. > > >why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that >should have bee flat like a pizza ? Old TESLA was crazy and what Dan wrote is correct. A transmitter (the Wardenclyffe tower) transmits 360 degrees horizontally 180 degrees vertically. Do you follow and understand? Now imagine a receiver (you with your Tesla car) in 1 kilometer distance. On top of your car is an antenna like deer antlers, about the size of the car, because it can't be any greater. Do you follow and understand, if not feel free to ask. Now imagine how small your (actually big) car looks as seen from the tower in 1000 m distance. Now estimate the area of the hemisphere around the tower with 1000 meter radius and the few square meters of your antenna, set that in a relation. Do you understand? I did not do the actual calculation but the relation will be about 1 to 1 million or something. Don't bother about the exact numbers. Your antenna will only be able to receive one millionth of the radiated energy. Tesla built his tower for about 100 kWatt. so your car will "see" about 100 milliwatt from air. This is without taking efficiency and losses into account. Effectively you will receive about 1 milliwatt from the Wardenclyffe tower in 1000 meter distance with an antenna size of a car. With 1 millliwatt you can charge your smartphone, but it will take weeks. Do you understand now why Tesla was nuts when he built that money swallowing useless monstrum that transmits 99,99 percent of the energy into empty space up to the clouds? Do you understand? If not, feel free to ask. w.
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 19:54 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <MOfny.80441$uJ5.80336@fx35.iad> |
| In reply to | #546335 |
On 01/18/2016 05:57 PM, Helmut Wabnig wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:33:36 -0600, Sergio <invalid@invalid.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote:
>>> Tesla was a great inventor,
>>>
>>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand.
>>
>> bullshit,
>>
>> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying
>> all sorts of things.
>>
>> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is
>> pure Gold.
>>
>>
>> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that
>> should have bee flat like a pizza ?
>
> Old TESLA was crazy and what Dan wrote is correct.
>
> A transmitter (the Wardenclyffe tower) transmits 360 degrees
> horizontally 180 degrees vertically.
>
> Do you follow and understand?
>
> Now imagine a receiver (you with your Tesla car) in 1 kilometer
> distance.
> On top of your car is an antenna like deer antlers,
> about the size of the car, because it can't be any greater.
>
> Do you follow and understand, if not feel free to ask.
>
> Now imagine how small your (actually big) car looks
> as seen from the tower in 1000 m distance.
> Now estimate the area of the hemisphere around the tower with
> 1000 meter radius and the few square meters of your antenna,
> set that in a relation.
>
> Do you understand?
>
> I did not do the actual calculation but the relation will be about
> 1 to 1 million or something. Don't bother about the exact numbers.
>
> Your antenna will only be able to receive one millionth of the
> radiated energy. Tesla built his tower for about 100 kWatt.
> so your car will "see" about 100 milliwatt from air.
> This is without taking efficiency and losses into account.
> Effectively you will receive about 1 milliwatt from the Wardenclyffe
> tower in 1000 meter distance with an antenna size of a car.
>
> With 1 millliwatt you can charge your smartphone,
> but it will take weeks.
>
> Do you understand now why Tesla was nuts when he built
> that money swallowing useless monstrum that transmits
> 99,99 percent of the energy into empty space up to the clouds?
>
> Do you understand?
> If not, feel free to ask.
>
> w.
Misinformation. Purpose of Wardenclyff was not to transmit energy but
trans-Atlantic communications. (According to Tesla himself in sworn
court testimony) And the proposed system had WAY more energy than
successful systems used later. Your "calculations" are just nonsense and
wrong. Note courts upheld Tesla patents as him being the inventor of
radio. Who are you trying to fool and why?
Please list your medical credentials that enable you to make a diagnosis
of Tesla's mental condition.
--
___ ___ ___ ___
/\ \ /\ \ /\__\ /\ \
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/:/\:\ \ /:/\:\ \ /:|:| | ___ /::\__\
/::\~\:\__\ /::\~\:\ \ /:/|:| |__ /\ /:/\/__/
/:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/ /
\:\~\:\/:/ / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/ / \::/ /
\:\ \::/ / \:\ \:\__\ |:/:/ / \/__/
\:\/:/ / \:\ \/__/ |::/ /
\::/__/ \:\__\ /:/ /
~~ \/__/ \/__/
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| From | Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-19 10:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <3tvr9b5l1t2pr5kjjl4ibh20ptms2vcm5n@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #546355 |
On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 19:54:04 -0500, benj <none@gmail.com> wrote: >On 01/18/2016 05:57 PM, Helmut Wabnig wrote: >> On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:33:36 -0600, Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote: >>>> Tesla was a great inventor, >>>> >>>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. >>> >>> bullshit, >>> >>> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying >>> all sorts of things. >>> >>> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is >>> pure Gold. >>> >>> >>> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that >>> should have bee flat like a pizza ? >> >> Old TESLA was crazy and what Dan wrote is correct. >> >> A transmitter (the Wardenclyffe tower) transmits 360 degrees >> horizontally 180 degrees vertically. >> >> Do you follow and understand? >> >> Now imagine a receiver (you with your Tesla car) in 1 kilometer >> distance. >> On top of your car is an antenna like deer antlers, >> about the size of the car, because it can't be any greater. >> >> Do you follow and understand, if not feel free to ask. >> >> Now imagine how small your (actually big) car looks >> as seen from the tower in 1000 m distance. >> Now estimate the area of the hemisphere around the tower with >> 1000 meter radius and the few square meters of your antenna, >> set that in a relation. >> >> Do you understand? >> >> I did not do the actual calculation but the relation will be about >> 1 to 1 million or something. Don't bother about the exact numbers. >> >> Your antenna will only be able to receive one millionth of the >> radiated energy. Tesla built his tower for about 100 kWatt. >> so your car will "see" about 100 milliwatt from air. >> This is without taking efficiency and losses into account. >> Effectively you will receive about 1 milliwatt from the Wardenclyffe >> tower in 1000 meter distance with an antenna size of a car. >> >> With 1 millliwatt you can charge your smartphone, >> but it will take weeks. >> >> Do you understand now why Tesla was nuts when he built >> that money swallowing useless monstrum that transmits >> 99,99 percent of the energy into empty space up to the clouds? >> >> Do you understand? >> If not, feel free to ask. >> >> w. > >Misinformation. Purpose of Wardenclyff was not to transmit energy but >trans-Atlantic communications. (According to Tesla himself in sworn >court testimony) And the proposed system had WAY more energy than >successful systems used later. Your "calculations" are just nonsense and >wrong. Note courts upheld Tesla patents as him being the inventor of >radio. Who are you trying to fool and why? > >Please list your medical credentials that enable you to make a diagnosis >of Tesla's mental condition. I can testify your mental condition. You are not synchronized with the present. And you have brain vacuum voids. Wardenclyffe is the icon of FREE ENERGY. Did you know? Now you know. And that's what I was referring to, because of the smell in the original posting. The FREE ENERGY religion you best study at YOUTUBE, I do not want to explain it here. Why do critisize my "calculation"? Are you a fanatic of precision? Actually I did not calculate, I leave that to you. You call it "nonsense" without stating why. Do the calculation, why do you hesitate? Present your results. You know that a lamda/4 vertical antenna radiates (roughly) in a hemisphere, you care for radiation patterns? Actually it radiates upwards, and my "calculations" are much too optimistic. Let me restate the task for you: A vertical lamda/4 antenna is fed 100 kWatt how much of the energy will you receive with an antenna equivalent size of 5 square meters in 1000 m distance at ground level. Calculate field strengts, energy flow per area and stuff. Various software available on the web. I am a radio engineer by profession, but what I explain to laymen is like the doctor would talk to a mental disorder patient. Tesla was given the radio patents, but radio was invented by Heinrich Hertz. Tesla built on the work of others. I do not say, he stole from contemporaries, but just as a hint, investigate the history of radio. One may have any patent, but that does not mean you are the inventor. The patent was granted to Tesla, to out-manoeuvre Marconi. One must be very very simpleminded not to recognize the pattern of politics behind. As for Tesla's geriatric conditions, look for biographies. If you are a fool, you don't have to be fooled, because you fool yourself all the time. w.
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| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 19:31 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n7k3mo$6r6$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #546335 |
On 1/18/2016 4:57 PM, Helmut Wabnig wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:33:36 -0600, Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> > wrote: > >> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote: >>> Tesla was a great inventor, >>> >>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. >> >> bullshit, >> >> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying >> all sorts of things. >> >> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is >> pure Gold. >> >> >> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that >> should have bee flat like a pizza ? > > Old TESLA was crazy and what Dan wrote is correct. > > A transmitter (the Wardenclyffe tower) transmits 360 degrees > horizontally 180 degrees vertically. > > Do you follow and understand? > > Now imagine a receiver (you with your Tesla car) in 1 kilometer > distance. > On top of your car is an antenna like deer antlers, > about the size of the car, because it can't be any greater. > > Do you follow and understand, if not feel free to ask. > Now imagine how small your (actually big) car looks > as seen from the tower in 1000 m distance. > Now estimate the area of the hemisphere around the tower with > 1000 meter radius and the few square meters of your antenna, > set that in a relation. > > Do you understand? > I did not do the actual calculation but the relation will be about > 1 to 1 million or something. Don't bother about the exact numbers. > > Your antenna will only be able to receive one millionth of the > radiated energy. Tesla built his tower for about 100 kWatt. > so your car will "see" about 100 milliwatt from air. > This is without taking efficiency and losses into account. > Effectively you will receive about 1 milliwatt from the Wardenclyffe > tower in 1000 meter distance with an antenna size of a car. > > With 1 millliwatt you can charge your smartphone, > but it will take weeks. > Do you understand now why Tesla was nuts when he built > that money swallowing useless monstrum that transmits > 99,99 percent of the energy into empty space up to the clouds? > > Do you understand? > If not, feel free to ask. > > w. > during that period of time, nobody was designing directional antennas. And they were at low frequency, right ? (200khz?) so getting antenna directional is not useful at low frequencys, right? perhaps he should have used a long wire, but back then....
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 23:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vv80nc-8q.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #546329 |
Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote: > On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote: >> Tesla was a great inventor, >> >> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. > > bullshit, > > he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying > all sorts of things. Sure they were, but in Wardenclyff Tesla was trying something already shown to be impossible. > hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is > pure Gold. > > > why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that > should have bee flat like a pizza ? Cylindrical records worked just fine. Wardenclyff did not and could not work. -- Jim Pennino
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 20:07 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <__fny.115291$qo3.14791@fx16.iad> |
| In reply to | #546339 |
On 01/18/2016 06:27 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote:
>>> Tesla was a great inventor,
>>>
>>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand.
>>
>> bullshit,
>>
>> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying
>> all sorts of things.
>
> Sure they were, but in Wardenclyff Tesla was trying something already
> shown to be impossible.
You mean "impossible" like trans-Atlantic radio? Yeah nobody ever was
able to do that.
>> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is
>> pure Gold.
>>
>>
>> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that
>> should have bee flat like a pizza ?
>
> Cylindrical records worked just fine.
Well, except if one considers the geometry and the hours of recording
that can be stored in a given volume of space.
> Wardenclyff did not and could not work.
"Did not" is correct. "Could not" is not proven, however, given the
testimony of Tesla that it's purpose was trans-Atlantic wireless and
given the huge amount of power Tesla planned to use for the transmission
and given that although the rather fanciful appearance of the tower and
dome and Tesla's own hype about transmitting power around the earth
obscured what was going on, you and I BOTH easily recognize that system
today as a capacitively top loaded dipole (probably a short dipole) that
we both know works.
Hence a conclusion that it "could not work" is pretty much without
foundation. We don't know for sure that it would have worked, but I'd
say it was certainly well on the right track for the knowledge of the day.
--
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\:\/:/ / \:\ \/__/ |::/ /
\::/__/ \:\__\ /:/ /
~~ \/__/ \/__/
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| From | jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-19 01:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <g6g0nc-6h1.ln1@mail.specsol.com> |
| In reply to | #546357 |
benj <none@gmail.com> wrote: > On 01/18/2016 06:27 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote: >>> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote: >>>> Tesla was a great inventor, >>>> >>>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. >>> >>> bullshit, >>> >>> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying >>> all sorts of things. >> >> Sure they were, but in Wardenclyff Tesla was trying something already >> shown to be impossible. > > You mean "impossible" like trans-Atlantic radio? Yeah nobody ever was > able to do that. > >>> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is >>> pure Gold. >>> >>> >>> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that >>> should have bee flat like a pizza ? >> >> Cylindrical records worked just fine. > > Well, except if one considers the geometry and the hours of recording > that can be stored in a given volume of space. Compared to what, a DVD? -- Jim Pennino
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 21:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <%Ugny.80442$uJ5.55707@fx35.iad> |
| In reply to | #546366 |
On 01/18/2016 08:30 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> benj <none@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 01/18/2016 06:27 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote:
>>>>> Tesla was a great inventor,
>>>>>
>>>>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand.
>>>>
>>>> bullshit,
>>>>
>>>> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were trying
>>>> all sorts of things.
>>>
>>> Sure they were, but in Wardenclyff Tesla was trying something already
>>> shown to be impossible.
>>
>> You mean "impossible" like trans-Atlantic radio? Yeah nobody ever was
>> able to do that.
>>
>>>> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and did is
>>>> pure Gold.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that
>>>> should have bee flat like a pizza ?
>>>
>>> Cylindrical records worked just fine.
>>
>> Well, except if one considers the geometry and the hours of recording
>> that can be stored in a given volume of space.
>
> Compared to what, a DVD?
No need to change the data density!
The problem with Edison Cylinders is the wasted space in the center of
the cylinder! Helical phonograph disks means you can stack a lot more
grooves in the same volume!
--
___ ___ ___ ___
/\ \ /\ \ /\__\ /\ \
/::\ \ /::\ \ /::| | \:\ \
/:/\:\ \ /:/\:\ \ /:|:| | ___ /::\__\
/::\~\:\__\ /::\~\:\ \ /:/|:| |__ /\ /:/\/__/
/:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/ /
\:\~\:\/:/ / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/ / \::/ /
\:\ \::/ / \:\ \:\__\ |:/:/ / \/__/
\:\/:/ / \:\ \/__/ |::/ /
\::/__/ \:\__\ /:/ /
~~ \/__/ \/__/
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| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 20:12 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n7k64s$aa0$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #546380 |
On 1/18/2016 8:08 PM, benj wrote: > On 01/18/2016 08:30 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >> benj <none@gmail.com> wrote: >>> On 01/18/2016 06:27 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote: >>>>> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote: >>>>>> Tesla was a great inventor, >>>>>> >>>>>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were >>>>> trying >>>>> all sorts of things. >>>> Sure they were, but in Wardenclyff Tesla was trying something already >>>> shown to be impossible. >>> >>> You mean "impossible" like trans-Atlantic radio? Yeah nobody ever was >>> able to do that. >>> >>>>> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and >>>>> did is >>>>> pure Gold. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that >>>>> should have bee flat like a pizza ? >>>> >>>> Cylindrical records worked just fine. >>> >>> Well, except if one considers the geometry and the hours of recording >>> that can be stored in a given volume of space. >> >> Compared to what, a DVD? > > No need to change the data density! > The problem with Edison Cylinders is the wasted space in the center of > the cylinder! Helical phonograph disks means you can stack a lot more > grooves in the same volume! > no! you could not mass produce a cyinder recording ! you had to have the band play each time to record a cylender! at best you could make about 8 cylenders per play of the band. at least that is what I heard, before my time... Flat Records you just press using a master.
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 23:37 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <h4jny.80453$uJ5.56872@fx35.iad> |
| In reply to | #546384 |
On 01/18/2016 09:12 PM, Sergio wrote:
> On 1/18/2016 8:08 PM, benj wrote:
>> On 01/18/2016 08:30 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> benj <none@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 01/18/2016 06:27 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote:
>>>>>>> Tesla was a great inventor,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand.
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were
>>>>>> trying
>>>>>> all sorts of things.
>
>>>>> Sure they were, but in Wardenclyff Tesla was trying something already
>>>>> shown to be impossible.
>>>>
>>>> You mean "impossible" like trans-Atlantic radio? Yeah nobody ever was
>>>> able to do that.
>>>>
>>>>>> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and
>>>>>> did is
>>>>>> pure Gold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records that
>>>>>> should have bee flat like a pizza ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cylindrical records worked just fine.
>>>>
>>>> Well, except if one considers the geometry and the hours of recording
>>>> that can be stored in a given volume of space.
>>>
>>> Compared to what, a DVD?
>>
>> No need to change the data density!
>> The problem with Edison Cylinders is the wasted space in the center of
>> the cylinder! Helical phonograph disks means you can stack a lot more
>> grooves in the same volume!
>>
>
> no! you could not mass produce a cyinder recording !
> you had to have the band play each time to record a cylender! at best
> you could make about 8 cylenders per play of the band.
> at least that is what I heard, before my time...
>
> Flat Records you just press using a master.
The storage density factor remains and is important, but of course the
"pressing" process of duplication is clearly what changed the phonograph
from some expensive curiosity to a medium of mass distribution (and
profit).
I suppose if one thought about it long enough one might be able to come
up with a way to duplicate cylinders, but why even bother to think about
it when the disk geometry is so obviously superior. Even Edison saw that
and his company quickly switched to disks as well which was unusual for
Edison who liked to fight for his way of doing things (note the huge
fight he put up to try to keep the inferior DC power distribution he was
selling).
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| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-19 08:24 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n7lh0d$cjn$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #546408 |
On 1/18/2016 10:37 PM, benj wrote: > On 01/18/2016 09:12 PM, Sergio wrote: >> On 1/18/2016 8:08 PM, benj wrote: >>> On 01/18/2016 08:30 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>> benj <none@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On 01/18/2016 06:27 PM, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote: >>>>>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On 1/18/2016 4:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote: >>>>>>>> Tesla was a great inventor, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> he was on the edge of the state of the art. Lots of people were >>>>>>> trying >>>>>>> all sorts of things. >> >>>>>> Sure they were, but in Wardenclyff Tesla was trying something already >>>>>> shown to be impossible. >>>>> >>>>> You mean "impossible" like trans-Atlantic radio? Yeah nobody ever was >>>>> able to do that. >>>>> >>>>>>> hindsight is always 20-20, but looking ahead like Tesla could and >>>>>>> did is >>>>>>> pure Gold. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> why dont you go beat up Edison for inventing cylendrical records >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> should have bee flat like a pizza ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cylindrical records worked just fine. >>>>> >>>>> Well, except if one considers the geometry and the hours of recording >>>>> that can be stored in a given volume of space. >>>> >>>> Compared to what, a DVD? >>> >>> No need to change the data density! >>> The problem with Edison Cylinders is the wasted space in the center of >>> the cylinder! Helical phonograph disks means you can stack a lot more >>> grooves in the same volume! >> >> no! you could not mass produce a cyinder recording ! >> you had to have the band play each time to record a cylender! at best >> you could make about 8 cylenders per play of the band. >> at least that is what I heard, before my time... >> >> Flat Records you just press using a master. > The storage density factor remains and is important, but of course the > "pressing" process of duplication is clearly what changed the phonograph > from some expensive curiosity to a medium of mass distribution (and > profit). > > I suppose if one thought about it long enough one might be able to come > up with a way to duplicate cylinders, but why even bother to think about > it when the disk geometry is so obviously superior. Even Edison saw that > and his company quickly switched to disks as well which was unusual for > Edison who liked to fight for his way of doing things (note the huge > fight he put up to try to keep the inferior DC power distribution he was > selling). > > on flat records Edison used up and down modulation for the needle, where as RCA used sideways modulation. crossing the records up would cause them to be regroved, or dammaged, edisons would tend to regrove RCA.
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| From | James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 16:00 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <ba9af02d-39d6-401e-a533-6d83490b0d89@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #546323 |
On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 2:15:32 PM UTC-8, Dan Elton wrote: It is amazing that somebody that could be so brilliant with his invention of alternating current could become so trapped by confirmation bias. But sometimes whole discilines are trapped by this.
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 19:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <IIfny.157341$MN2.86614@fx07.iad> |
| In reply to | #546346 |
On 01/18/2016 07:00 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 2:15:32 PM UTC-8, Dan Elton wrote:
>
> It is amazing that somebody that could be so brilliant with his
> invention of alternating current could become so trapped by
> confirmation bias. But sometimes whole discilines are trapped by
> this.
>
What is this? Huge discovery that Tesla was a human being and unlike
Einstein who was the son of God? There is no requirement that being
brilliant means you never have any wrong ideas. In spite of Tesla's
strange theories (like moon "bouncing" off the earth) he invented a
great portion of what became the 20th century. Most brilliant people get
by with just one or two great ideas and nobody worries about the rest of
their lives. So why are you so worried about "debunking" Tesla's
achievements? Why are you so scared of people looking into what he did?
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| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 19:35 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n7k3tv$788$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #546346 |
On 1/18/2016 6:00 PM, James McGinn wrote: > On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 2:15:32 PM UTC-8, Dan Elton wrote: > > It is amazing that somebody that could be so brilliant with his > invention of alternating current could become so trapped by > confirmation bias. But sometimes whole discilines are trapped by > this. > STFU troll- your response shows your ignorance. go read a book. Call 911 and ask them to take you to a library, they have books there.
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| From | HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 16:26 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <f2264283-0912-421d-907d-2e40af5a1e95@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #546323 |
Tesla was a great inventor, but during the second half of his life, Tesla had a mental breakdown because his Wardenclyff project didn't work the way he thought it would.... ----------- Title for this thread should have been 'Tesla's POLLY' because he used to have sex with his pet bird
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 21:05 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <zRgny.131203$kN.130172@fx11.iad> |
| In reply to | #546347 |
On 01/18/2016 07:26 PM, HVAC wrote:
>
> Tesla was a great inventor, but during the second half of his life, Tesla had a mental breakdown because his Wardenclyff project didn't work the way he thought it would....
> -----------
> Title for this thread should have been 'Tesla's POLLY' because he used to have sex with his pet bird
>
Polly! Good one!
Say, wait I've heard this story before!
Oh that's right! I heard it from YOU!
Anyway, it wasn't a parrot. Not even a pet bird. Was promiscuous
anonymous sex with shit-ass pigeon in the park. You know. About the same
thing as your posts here!
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| From | Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 20:14 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <n7k67i$aa0$3@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #546347 |
On 1/18/2016 6:26 PM, HVAC wrote: > > Tesla was a great inventor, but during the second half of his life, > Tesla had a mental breakdown because his Wardenclyff project didn't > work the way he thought it would.... ----------- Title for this > thread should have been 'Tesla's POLLY' because he used to have sex > with his pet bird > his bird ended up like that bird in "Dumb and Dumber"
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| From | benj <none@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-01-18 19:37 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <%yfny.153629$1g3.2991@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #546323 |
On 01/18/2016 05:15 PM, Dan Elton wrote:
> Tesla was a great inventor, but during the second half of his life,
> Tesla had a mental breakdown because his Wardenclyff project didn't
> work the way he thought it would....
Such stories of "mental breakdowns" are fantasy and completely
unsubstantiated propaganda.
> The truth is that Wardenclyff was a fool's errand. He has
> fundamentally wrong ideas about how electromagnetic waves propagate
> through the Earth. He conducted his Colorado Springs experiments in
> a very unscientific manner and fooled himself with confirmation bias
> into thinking he could transmit large amounts of electrical power
> through the Earth.
Truth is (proven by written historical documents) is that large amounts
of power WERE transmitted in Colorado. Whether this was efficient enough
to replace wires wasn't decided then nor since. Furthermore the tales
that Wardenclyff was for wireless power transmission is a proven lie by
court documents regarding it's disposal. Tesla stated firmly and under
oath that the actual purpose of the system was transatlantic radio
communication. (The power story was not particularly discouraged by
Tesla's own Show biz tales of what his inventions could do)
The project failed because funding was pulled. It is clear from our
perspective (and later success of much lower power systems of
trans-Atlantic communication by Marconi who lost the patent case to
Tesla as the "true" inventor of radio) that had Tesla's radio system
been finished given the power levels he could achieve it would have been
an excellent commercial venture.
> He never had much patience for mathematical theory, and refused to be
> believe that longitudinal EM waves are impossible, even though
> physicists had proven that fact with Maxwell's equations.
Sorry, buster, but the issue is still not settled. No definitive test
has ever been performed for LOW FREQUENCY waves. (Microwaves are clearly
largely (though perhaps not completely) transverse). It was as open a
question as the one if radio "waves" are actually photons. There is no
word of God here. Maxwell's (Actually Heaviside's) equations are just a
theory. They are not proof of anything. In fact the key item
(displacement current) has NEVER been demonstrated as real!
> J.P. Morgan was smart not to continue funding the Wardenclyff
> project. Morgan was interested in wireless communication across the
> Atlantic, and Marconi had already demonstrated that .. why bother
> investing more into Tesla's failed endevour?.
Bullshit. We saw above the true purpose (which was smart) and the huge
power Tesla was going to be able to produce over competitors and the
great need for such communications at the time which made success of
this project very likely. Why Morgan chose to defund it is a matter of
his thinking and finances not Tesla's.
> I have written a detailed post about this:
> http://www.danielcelton.com/2015/02/22/teslas-folly-why-wardenclyff-didnt-work/
The key question one here needs to ask is WHY has Tesla been erased from
all the physics textbooks? WHY do strategic writers like this clown
CONTINUE to blast the history of Tesla with propaganda, fantasy and
innuendo? Ask yourself just WHAT did Tesla do that warrants such direct
action upon his achievements? Clearly those in power are scared and
REMAIN scared more than a century later. Now that is a Tesla achievement
that is WORTHY OF NOTE!
> The best biography is by Bernard Carson, because he uses real
> historical sources and doesn't include unsubstantiated nonsense, like
> the idea that Tesla lit lights 25 miles away in Colorado Springs.
Nobody needs to have someone think for them. Tesla's Colorado Springs
notes (for the most part) are published and can be read by anyone
interested.
Why does Tesla scare you so much Dan? Or are you paid to do this? And if
so by whom? Inquiring minds want to know.
You know HVAC? He hates Tesla too. Did you know Tesla had sex with male
birds?
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